So looks like Zoggy is off in the summer.

[ohmelads]

Big deal. Roeder either tried to get them and they decided to go elsewhere, or he didn't want them at all. s*** happens. This is the real world.

 

Glad you agree it was a total f*ck up then, for a minute I thought you were defending the purchase of Duff over buying available defenders.

 

I agree we needed another striker on top of Martins, it was the highest priority after getting a defender, which without any doubt was the urgent priority by that time. Even after Martins, Rossi and Sibierski were brought in out of desperation but still nobody for the defence. I don't think that £5m would have got us much in the way of strikers. As you point out defenders are cheaper and we could have made greater improvements to our squad there.

[NE5]

Wouldn't disagree. Therefore you'd realise that we actually needed another striker rather than a LW or a LB. Take a look at the goals scored column. Goals win games. You also need to take into account availability. Something the majority on this forum don't appear to consider in the slightest. I'm waiting for someone to convince me with solid facts that signing Duff directly led to the club failing to sign a defender, rather than the defender the manager wanted to sign simply not being available.

 

Come on we all know there were defenders available because we saw them signing for the likes of Portsmouth, Middlesbrough and other clubs. Some have gone on to be good, some haven't, but we all know that Roeder had £5m in his pocket and we know that he spent it on a left winger and left his defence threadbare.

 

The argument you're using could be used to justify any signing in history.

 

As for 'goals win games', goals also lose games and they've lost us a lot of games this season through crap defending. In Europe we scored 4 times and still went out.

 

please tell us how many forwards/strikers we have had this season. You castigate the club further down this thread for "signing Rossi and Sib in desperation". How much more desperate would we have been if we had spent 5m quid on a defender ?

 

And as I have stated, spending this money on a defender would have achieved almost nothing re-our pattern of play and pretty much a zero effect on the fact that we have spent so many games defending desperately and scrapping a few points while being the inferior team due to conceding the initiative.

 

 

 

 

[Howaythelads]

Big deal. Roeder either tried to get them and they decided to go elsewhere, or he didn't want them at all. s*** happens. This is the real world.

 

Glad you agree it was a total f*ck up then, for a minute I thought you were defending the purchase of Duff over buying available defenders.

 

I agree we needed another striker on top of Martins, it was the highest priority after getting a defender, which without any doubt was the urgent priority by that time. Even after Martins, Rossi and Sibierski were brought in out of desperation but still nobody for the defence. I don't think that £5m would have got us much in the way of strikers. As you point out defenders are cheaper and we could have made greater improvements to our squad there.

 

Make it up, mate.

[tmonkey]

And as I have stated, spending this money on a defender would have achieved almost nothing re-our pattern of play and pretty much a zero effect on the fact that we have spent so many games defending desperately and scrapping a few points while being the inferior team due to conceding the initiative.

 

Aye, its not often that we have any sort of initiative when our fullbacks are kicking the ball straight out of play half the time or producing shiite passes. Ala Ramage, Huntington, Carr, right footed shiite defenders who have had to play an entire season at left back between them.

 

And as said before, youve been PROVED wrong. 5mill on Duff has done fuck all for us, whether its creativity, goals, or keeping the ball. 5mill on defenders, on the other hand, could well have seen us higher up the league. Eg Sorin, Sol Campbell, etc.

 

But anyway, youre full of shiite, so dont let any sort of common sense stop your pro-Shepherd crusade.

[tmonkey]

Big deal. Roeder either tried to get them and they decided to go elsewhere, or he didn't want them at all. s*** happens. This is the real world.

 

Glad you agree it was a total f*ck up then, for a minute I thought you were defending the purchase of Duff over buying available defenders.

 

I agree we needed another striker on top of Martins, it was the highest priority after getting a defender, which without any doubt was the urgent priority by that time. Even after Martins, Rossi and Sibierski were brought in out of desperation but still nobody for the defence. I don't think that £5m would have got us much in the way of strikers. As you point out defenders are cheaper and we could have made greater improvements to our squad there.

 

Make it up, mate.

 

He didnt have to. Youve just admitted that Roeder failed in the transfer market to get the priority players in other positions before signing a left winger.

[NE5]

And as I have stated, spending this money on a defender would have achieved almost nothing re-our pattern of play and pretty much a zero effect on the fact that we have spent so many games defending desperately and scrapping a few points while being the inferior team due to conceding the initiative.

 

Aye, its not often that we have any sort of initiative when our fullbacks are kicking the ball straight out of play half the time or producing shiite passes. Ala Ramage, Huntington, Carr, right footed shiite defenders who have had to play an entire season at left back between them.

 

And as said before, youve been PROVED wrong. 5mill on Duff has done fuck all for us, whether its creativity, goals, or keeping the ball. 5mill on defenders, on the other hand, could well have seen us higher up the league. Eg Sorin, Sol Campbell, etc.

 

But anyway, youre full of shiite, so dont let any sort of common sense stop your pro-Shepherd crusade.

 

Odd, but I don;t see me starting too many threads about Shepherd, pro-board or otherwise. But keep on making things up.

 

All I do is point out the FACT that only 4 clubs have qualified for europe more than us over a decade, which is far from being shite.

Nor is buying major international players and filling a 50,000 stadium with people happy to witness "mediocrity".

 

I have not been proved wrong on anything. Other than not having the foresight to see that Duff would not play the way he did at Blackburn and to a lesser extent at Chelsea, bearing in mind he was at a club of expensive superstars * and as such didn't get a run in the team.

 

Did you predict this BTW ? Would you mind telling us the 6 lottery numbers this saturday  that is AFTER you have told me who exactly are all these "trophy" players we have a Newcastle [as you claimed it not me] and then tell us who you think we would have been better off buying instead [again, your claim not mine] but carry on creating an agenda and slating the club for attempting to be successful if you like.

 

Whatever the limitations of one or two of our defenders, the point is that our front players have limitations too, and when they do receive an accurate ball, lose possession far too easily. This has been obvious all season. We have played too many games where we have been outplayed, a better defender will not solve this. The best defenders struggle if they are under constant pressure, and there is a lack of good players in front of them to make space to receive a ball out from the back. Games are bossed in midfield.

 

* trophy players

 

 

[Howaythelads]

Big deal. Roeder either tried to get them and they decided to go elsewhere, or he didn't want them at all. s*** happens. This is the real world.

 

Glad you agree it was a total f*ck up then, for a minute I thought you were defending the purchase of Duff over buying available defenders.

 

I agree we needed another striker on top of Martins, it was the highest priority after getting a defender, which without any doubt was the urgent priority by that time. Even after Martins, Rossi and Sibierski were brought in out of desperation but still nobody for the defence. I don't think that £5m would have got us much in the way of strikers. As you point out defenders are cheaper and we could have made greater improvements to our squad there.

 

Make it up, mate.

 

He didnt have to. Youve just admitted that Roeder failed in the transfer market to get the priority players in other positions before signing a left winger.

 

mackems.gif

 

I don't believe you have a clue about football. Not a clue.  Nor do you understand the English language. Just carry on with your negative and endless spit and bile, it doesn't bother me that you're spouting shíte and have zero understanding of the game.

[ohmelads]

please tell us how many forwards/strikers we have had this season. You castigate the club further down this thread for "signing Rossi and Sib in desperation". How much more desperate would we have been if we had spent 5m quid on a defender ?

 

Considering Rossi and Sibierski didn't cost us anything, it wouldn't have made any difference. We'd have had them anyway.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that spending £5m on defence would have stopped us pulling off these two brilliant signings?

[ohmelads]

We have played too many games where we have been outplayed, a better defender will not solve this. The best defenders struggle if they are under constant pressure, and there is a lack of good players in front of them to make space to receive a ball out from the back. Games are bossed in midfield.

 

Games are bossed in midfield, but they are won and lost in the final third of the field. We can go on all day with these soundbites, it doesn't mean anything.

[NE5]

We have played too many games where we have been outplayed, a better defender will not solve this. The best defenders struggle if they are under constant pressure, and there is a lack of good players in front of them to make space to receive a ball out from the back. Games are bossed in midfield.

 

Games are bossed in midfield, but they are won and lost in the final third of the field. We can go on all day with these soundbites, it doesn't mean anything.

 

the best teams are the ones who are better at holding possession and dicating the pace of the game, this is because it is achieved by talented players passing and moving and playing to their ability, with desire to win. There is no substitute. This is how results are gained consistently. As for games being won in the final 3rd, yes you are right, but it is the strikers who cost the most money and who are the most valuable, because scoring the goal is the hardest thing in the game.

 

 

 

 

[NE5]

please tell us how many forwards/strikers we have had this season. You castigate the club further down this thread for "signing Rossi and Sib in desperation". How much more desperate would we have been if we had spent 5m quid on a defender ?

 

Considering Rossi and Sibierski didn't cost us anything, it wouldn't have made any difference. We'd have had them anyway.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that spending £5m on defence would have stopped us pulling off these two brilliant signings?

 

I would not spend 5m on a full back when we are short on money and short of forwards and strikers. You appear to think that the club should buy any player they want. I'm sorry mate, this is the real world, players elect to go to other clubs sometimes, for different reasons only they know, maybe personal, maybe financial. You would be the first to complain - or if not then plenty of others would - and they do - if they think the club pays someone too much money and isn't worth it, and if they bring someone in who they think isn't good enough because they can't get their first choice. Are you happy with the yank ? If not, why not, after all he's a defender, just the same as Rossi was/is a forward ?

 

 

 

 

[ohmelads]

OK now that we've established - twice - that this is the real world, I still haven't heard a valid argument against spending that £5m on defence instead of Duff. I didn't say spend all of that money on a left back, I don't know where that has come from. Onyewu was way too little way too late and I see his signing as an acknowledgement from the club that they had made a mistake in August. Indeed attack and defence were both urgent priorities back then, £10m was spent on Martins, Sibierski and Rossi were also brought in. In defence - nothing. We began the season with the most unbalanced squad in the league.

 

Strikers tend to be more expensive and that's why I agreed with the signing of Martins. After the Owen injury we were always going to have to spend big up front. But we simply had to put something into defence and that has been proven over the season as we've had something like 7 different right backs and 7 different left backs over the season, that's got to be a record. We were the only club to start the season with such a threadbare defence and when you consider three of our six senior defenders (Carr, Baba and Moore) have major fitness problems, it was never going to be enough to see us through. I'm not talking with the benefit of hindsight as I said all this at the time.

[madras]

OK now that we've established - twice - that this is the real world, I still haven't heard a valid argument against spending that £5m on defence instead of Duff. I didn't say spend all of that money on a left back, I don't know where that has come from. Onyewu arrived five months too late, he was way too little way too late. Indeed attack and defence were both urgent priorities, £10m was spent on Martins, Sibierski and Rossi were also brought in. In defence - nothing.

 

You can talk about how the best teams play but they've all got a good defence. Strikers tend to be more expensive and that's why I agreed with the signing of Martins. After the Owen injury we were always going to have to spend big up front. But we simply had to put something into defence and that has been proven over the season as we've had something like 7 different right backs and 7 different left backs this season. We were the only club to start the season with such a threadbare defence and when you consider three of our six senior defenders (Carr, Baba and Moore) have major fitness problems, it was never going to be enough to see us through. I'm not talking with the benefit of hindsight as I said all this at the time.

we spent money on duff,so what,we also had money to spend on a defender(didn't we have a bid turned down for zat knight).roeders whole transfer policy has been if he cant get the player he wants he wont buy for the sake of it.

 

you are making it sound like we didn't buy a defender BECAUSE we bought duff,which in my understanding wasn't the case.

[NE5]

OK now that we've established - twice - that this is the real world, I still haven't heard a valid argument against spending that £5m on defence instead of Duff. I didn't say spend all of that money on a left back, I don't know where that has come from. Onyewu arrived five months too late, he was way too little way too late. Indeed attack and defence were both urgent priorities, £10m was spent on Martins, Sibierski and Rossi were also brought in. In defence - nothing.

 

You can talk about how the best teams play but they've all got a good defence.

 

they also have the best forwards and midfield players too, with the result that they dominate games and slog it out equally against each other. The best teams are those who dictate possession in midfield and up front. This is the key to being a top team.

 

Strikers tend to be more expensive and that's why I agreed with the signing of Martins. After the Owen injury we were always going to have to spend big up front. But we simply had to put something into defence and that has been proven over the season as we've had something like 7 different right backs and 7 different left backs this season. We were the only club to start the season with such a threadbare defence and when you consider three of our six senior defenders (Carr, Baba and Moore) have major fitness problems, it was never going to be enough to see us through. I'm not talking with the benefit of hindsight as I said all this at the time.

 

We were also the only team to play most of the season with only 1 out and out striker. We have been very lucky that he wasn't hurt. I expect people would have moaned their bollocks off if Martins had been hurt ie "why didnt' we get another striker".

 

I am not denying that we don't need defenders, we need a canny few players. But having watched the team play, I think our weakness from day 1 has been an inability to hold the ball up front, and for a midfield player to support his front men and wide men [not man] quickly.

 

And I think if we do not solve this problem in the summer, we will be in trouble next season, because being outplayed and scrapping for goals against the run of play is not sustainable, and it has happened too often.

 

 

 

[Northern Monkey]

OK now that we've established - twice - that this is the real world, I still haven't heard a valid argument against spending that £5m on defence instead of Duff. I didn't say spend all of that money on a left back, I don't know where that has come from. Onyewu arrived five months too late, he was way too little way too late. Indeed attack and defence were both urgent priorities, £10m was spent on Martins, Sibierski and Rossi were also brought in. In defence - nothing.

 

You can talk about how the best teams play but they've all got a good defence. Strikers tend to be more expensive and that's why I agreed with the signing of Martins. After the Owen injury we were always going to have to spend big up front. But we simply had to put something into defence and that has been proven over the season as we've had something like 7 different right backs and 7 different left backs this season. We were the only club to start the season with such a threadbare defence and when you consider three of our six senior defenders (Carr, Baba and Moore) have major fitness problems, it was never going to be enough to see us through. I'm not talking with the benefit of hindsight as I said all this at the time.

we spent money on duff,so what,we also had money to spend on a defender(didn't we have a bid turned down for zat knight).roeders whole transfer policy has been if he cant get the player he wants he wont buy for the sake of it.

 

you are making it sound like we didn't buy a defender BECAUSE we bought duff,which in my understanding wasn't the case.

 

Where did you get the idea that he had more money from??

 

Oh, and if Roeder couldn't find a better central defender than Damange. Shambles and Moore - or a better left back than Babayaro - then he is even more of a fucking disgrace than i thought so.

[madras]

OK now that we've established - twice - that this is the real world, I still haven't heard a valid argument against spending that £5m on defence instead of Duff. I didn't say spend all of that money on a left back, I don't know where that has come from. Onyewu arrived five months too late, he was way too little way too late. Indeed attack and defence were both urgent priorities, £10m was spent on Martins, Sibierski and Rossi were also brought in. In defence - nothing.

 

You can talk about how the best teams play but they've all got a good defence. Strikers tend to be more expensive and that's why I agreed with the signing of Martins. After the Owen injury we were always going to have to spend big up front. But we simply had to put something into defence and that has been proven over the season as we've had something like 7 different right backs and 7 different left backs this season. We were the only club to start the season with such a threadbare defence and when you consider three of our six senior defenders (Carr, Baba and Moore) have major fitness problems, it was never going to be enough to see us through. I'm not talking with the benefit of hindsight as I said all this at the time.

we spent money on duff,so what,we also had money to spend on a defender(didn't we have a bid turned down for zat knight).roeders whole transfer policy has been if he cant get the player he wants he wont buy for the sake of it.

 

you are making it sound like we didn't buy a defender BECAUSE we bought duff,which in my understanding wasn't the case.

 

Where did you get the idea that he had more money from??

 

Oh, and if Roeder couldn't find a better central defender than Damange. Shambles and Moore - or a better left back than Babayaro - then he is even more of a f****** disgrace than i thought so.

he can find tham but would you pay £8mill for upson ?..it's not footy manager where you just find someone better and get them,we've been ripped off too often for that.

[madras]

didn't mourinho also say we outbid boro for huth but he had already agreed to go there ?

[Northern Monkey]

OK now that we've established - twice - that this is the real world, I still haven't heard a valid argument against spending that £5m on defence instead of Duff. I didn't say spend all of that money on a left back, I don't know where that has come from. Onyewu arrived five months too late, he was way too little way too late. Indeed attack and defence were both urgent priorities, £10m was spent on Martins, Sibierski and Rossi were also brought in. In defence - nothing.

 

You can talk about how the best teams play but they've all got a good defence. Strikers tend to be more expensive and that's why I agreed with the signing of Martins. After the Owen injury we were always going to have to spend big up front. But we simply had to put something into defence and that has been proven over the season as we've had something like 7 different right backs and 7 different left backs this season. We were the only club to start the season with such a threadbare defence and when you consider three of our six senior defenders (Carr, Baba and Moore) have major fitness problems, it was never going to be enough to see us through. I'm not talking with the benefit of hindsight as I said all this at the time.

we spent money on duff,so what,we also had money to spend on a defender(didn't we have a bid turned down for zat knight).roeders whole transfer policy has been if he cant get the player he wants he wont buy for the sake of it.

 

you are making it sound like we didn't buy a defender BECAUSE we bought duff,which in my understanding wasn't the case.

 

Where did you get the idea that he had more money from??

 

Oh, and if Roeder couldn't find a better central defender than Damange. Shambles and Moore - or a better left back than Babayaro - then he is even more of a f****** disgrace than i thought so.

he can find tham but would you pay £8mill for upson ?..it's not footy manager where you just find someone better and get them,we've been ripped off too often for that.

 

I say again - if he can't find better, then he's an unbelievable cretin. Our central defenders, bar Taylor, are an absolute disgrace.

 

Roeder has ballsed up, in the transfer market as much as he has fucked up tactically.

[ohmelads]

you are making it sound like we didn't buy a defender BECAUSE we bought duff,which in my understanding wasn't the case.

 

Are you suggesting that Roeder had extra money available for defenders but instead decided to start a Premiership season with what had to be the smallest pool of defenders ever? If that's what happened then Roeder and Shepherd come off looking even worse. Six defenders, three of which are crocks and another of which is Ramage is not going to get you through a season whatever way you look at it. What on earth were they thinking?!

 

Do you really believe Sibierski, Rossi and Bernard arrived as the result of a carefully planned transfer window or as the result of a last-minute panic? They all arrived in the final few hours, close to midnight August 31st. I remember the chronicle article at the time (the one I assume you're quoting regarding Zat Knight) and it painted a sorry picture. Milner in Birmingham ready to sign for Aston Villa and pulled back at the last minute, it was all a mess. How people can defend that transfer window I do not know, we are still reaping the mistakes today.

[madras]

you are making it sound like we didn't buy a defender BECAUSE we bought duff,which in my understanding wasn't the case.

 

Are you suggesting that Roeder had extra money available for defenders but instead decided to start a Premiership season with what had to be the smallest pool of defenders ever? If that's what happened then Roeder and Shepherd come off looking even worse. Six defenders, three of which are crocks and another of which is Ramage is not going to get you through a season whatever way you look at it. What on earth were they thinking?!

 

Do you really believe Sibierski, Rossi and Bernard arrived as the result of a carefully planned transfer window or as the result of a last-minute panic? They all arrived in the final few hours, close to midnight August 31st. I remember the chronicle article at the time (the one I assume you're quoting regarding Zat Knight) and it painted a sorry picture. Milner in Birmingham ready to sign for Aston Villa and pulled back at the last minute, it was all a mess. How people can defend that transfer window I do not know, we are still reaping the mistakes today.

bid for zat knight and robert huth,attempted to get woodgate....do you suggest we go down the lines of boumsong again ie making sure we get numbers in by paying inflated prices for crap ?

[madras]

as for sibs etc,they were brought in on frees so not much of a gamble.

[ohmelads]

bid for zat knight and robert huth,attempted to get woodgate....do you suggest we go down the lines of boumsong again ie making sure we get numbers in by paying inflated prices for crap ?

 

No.

 

What's your point? That we can't blame the club for failing to find defenders, that we had no choice but to start the season with the most unbalanced squad in the Premier League? I see other clubs improving their weakest areas every summer without too much fuss, it's standard practice really. Those clubs live in the real world.

[Northern Monkey]

you are making it sound like we didn't buy a defender BECAUSE we bought duff,which in my understanding wasn't the case.

 

Are you suggesting that Roeder had extra money available for defenders but instead decided to start a Premiership season with what had to be the smallest pool of defenders ever? If that's what happened then Roeder and Shepherd come off looking even worse. Six defenders, three of which are crocks and another of which is Ramage is not going to get you through a season whatever way you look at it. What on earth were they thinking?!

 

Do you really believe Sibierski, Rossi and Bernard arrived as the result of a carefully planned transfer window or as the result of a last-minute panic? They all arrived in the final few hours, close to midnight August 31st. I remember the chronicle article at the time (the one I assume you're quoting regarding Zat Knight) and it painted a sorry picture. Milner in Birmingham ready to sign for Aston Villa and pulled back at the last minute, it was all a mess. How people can defend that transfer window I do not know, we are still reaping the mistakes today.

bid for zat knight and robert huth,attempted to get woodgate....do you suggest we go down the lines of boumsong again ie making sure we get numbers in by paying inflated prices for crap ?

 

He failed to get what we needed, simple as that. I refuse to believe thst there were NO competent defenders we could have tempted here - because what we have is INcompetent.

 

As for the Kinght/Huth/Woodgate thing, you have no more idea than the rest of us about who we REALLY went for. Roeder is a weasel, so anything he says can't be trusted.

[Parky]

you are making it sound like we didn't buy a defender BECAUSE we bought duff,which in my understanding wasn't the case.

 

Are you suggesting that Roeder had extra money available for defenders but instead decided to start a Premiership season with what had to be the smallest pool of defenders ever? If that's what happened then Roeder and Shepherd come off looking even worse. Six defenders, three of which are crocks and another of which is Ramage is not going to get you through a season whatever way you look at it. What on earth were they thinking?!

 

Do you really believe Sibierski, Rossi and Bernard arrived as the result of a carefully planned transfer window or as the result of a last-minute panic? They all arrived in the final few hours, close to midnight August 31st. I remember the chronicle article at the time (the one I assume you're quoting regarding Zat Knight) and it painted a sorry picture. Milner in Birmingham ready to sign for Aston Villa and pulled back at the last minute, it was all a mess. How people can defend that transfer window I do not know, we are still reaping the mistakes today.

bid for zat knight and robert huth,attempted to get woodgate....do you suggest we go down the lines of boumsong again ie making sure we get numbers in by paying inflated prices for crap ?

 

He failed to get what we needed, simple as that. I refuse to believe thst there were NO competent defenders we could have tempted here - because what we have is INcompetent.

 

As for the Kinght/Huth/Woodgate thing, you have no more idea than the rest of us about who we REALLY went for. Roeder is a weasel, so anything he says can't be trusted.

 

You can see Roeder's little press tittle tattle dripping out and his little weasel face twitching with glee....And sometimes very late at night in the dark you hear the squeal of a larger rat scuttling around the offices demented in the search of a conscience.

[Northern Monkey]

you are making it sound like we didn't buy a defender BECAUSE we bought duff,which in my understanding wasn't the case.

 

Are you suggesting that Roeder had extra money available for defenders but instead decided to start a Premiership season with what had to be the smallest pool of defenders ever? If that's what happened then Roeder and Shepherd come off looking even worse. Six defenders, three of which are crocks and another of which is Ramage is not going to get you through a season whatever way you look at it. What on earth were they thinking?!

 

Do you really believe Sibierski, Rossi and Bernard arrived as the result of a carefully planned transfer window or as the result of a last-minute panic? They all arrived in the final few hours, close to midnight August 31st. I remember the chronicle article at the time (the one I assume you're quoting regarding Zat Knight) and it painted a sorry picture. Milner in Birmingham ready to sign for Aston Villa and pulled back at the last minute, it was all a mess. How people can defend that transfer window I do not know, we are still reaping the mistakes today.

bid for zat knight and robert huth,attempted to get woodgate....do you suggest we go down the lines of boumsong again ie making sure we get numbers in by paying inflated prices for crap ?

 

He failed to get what we needed, simple as that. I refuse to believe thst there were NO competent defenders we could have tempted here - because what we have is INcompetent.

 

As for the Kinght/Huth/Woodgate thing, you have no more idea than the rest of us about who we REALLY went for. Roeder is a weasel, so anything he says can't be trusted.

 

You can see Roeder's little press tittle tattle dripping out and his little weasel face twitching....And sometimes very late at night in the dark you hear the squeal of a larger rat scuttling around the offices demented in the search of a conscience.