Guest graemeh72 Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Aquick look at some appearance stats of our defence just shows what a difficult time Roeder has had of it this year and how next year can't be as bad again. On the basis that the defensive injury list can't be any worse that this year, we should be able to show significant improvement simply by not being as unlucky with injuries. To start with let’s makes some pretty uncontroversial assumptions / comments - A settled & consistent back 4 is better than chopping and changing a back 4 - A settled back 4 results in a better defensive performance over the season - A settled back 4 of average players (Everton, Bolton ect) is likely to be an above average defensive unit - At the start of the season most of us would have chosen a back 4 of Carr, Taylor, Moore and Baba as our first choice back 4 Facts - That our "first choice" back 4 to date has played 73 combined appearances Which compared to other clubs is substantially lower Man U 100, Chelsea 92, Liverpool 113, Arsenal 98, Spurs 103, Bolton 104, Portsmouth 109, Everton 101 --- The point being two fold a) That if we'd had a settled back 4 this season we would have probably picked up the extra points required to be challenging for a UEFA spot and nobody would be grumbling too much (and that’s without Owen & Shola) b) With a settled back 4 next year and Owen and Shola - we will be up there for a top 6 / UEFA cup spot next season (ps deliberate apostrophe usage in headline - before any arse gets smart) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stozo Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 I agree. Great stats on the back 4 by the way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 good to see someone not trotting out doom and gloom for a change the assumption is that we need a "world class" defender and have done for some time....however all any semi-successful club really needs is competent defenders who play more games than they miss plus an attack that is dangerous and can score goals when they're needed - we've lacked both this season it's possible to make a good back four without spectacular individuals and that's what i'd like to see us aim for, that plus some tinkering with the midfield and a large part of the season with owen and shola fit we'll do alright Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloydie Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 It's not the world class we're missing, it's leadership. Taylor might get there, but he's a bit young, Titus doesn't seem to be a leader on the pitch and Moore hasn't been around to do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewellander Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 It's not the world class we're missing, it's leadership. Taylor might get there, but he's a bit young, Titus doesn't seem to be a leader on the pitch and Moore hasn't been around to do it. Agreed. An experienced and respected center back along with some younger, compitent defenders, and things will be better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NIToon Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Makes interesting reading. It's true that the back four has been unsettled all season, however I still believe that even with the first choice back four stated available for the full season, the inadequacies would have been obvious. A true leader would still have been needed in the centre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 You talk of a settled back four, but we could have had all of this last summer if Roeder would have been more shrude in the transfer windows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloydie Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 I think Roeder's plans were shot to bits by Owen's injury and then being told there was going to be money and not getting it. (probably because of a takeover that never happened) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest graemeh72 Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 You talk of a settled back four, but we could have had all of this last summer if Roeder would have been more shrude in the transfer windows. Was it Roeders fault that Chelsea & Arsenal bickered over Ashley Cole until 11.59pm and we never got Wayne Bridge on loan? Kenyon told Shepherd - who in turn told Roeder for months that Bridge was a done deal for the Toon as soon as the Cole transfer went through. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and I suspect that Roeder would have pushed harder for Campbell and Woodgate if he knew for sure that they were over their physical & mental issues. Personally I always get the feeling that Woodgates body is on borrowed time. If Roeder gives a list of player targets to Shepherd, then surely its up to Shepherd to deliver? All to often the supporters use transfers to hit the chairman or manager over the head - depend on which "fickle head" they are wearing at the time. Carr, Bramble, Taylor, Moore, Ramage and Babayaro should have been enough to get us through the season without panic buying "the wrong" players a la Souness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemmill Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Sorry, but he's had two transfer windows to do something (ANYTHING) with our back four and all he's managed so far is Gooch on loan - the first choice back 4 mentioned in the opening post is fucking shite. We'll see what happens this window, but anyone expecting a dramatic turnaround in the ability of Roeder/Shepherd to operate effectively within a transfer window is blindly optimistic imo. They've fucked up 2 out of 2 so far. I'm expecting the hat trick in the summer. Which means that imo things probably won't be a great deal better at all next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 It's not really about 'settled', it's about QUALITY. Next. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest graemeh72 Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Sorry, but he's had two transfer windows to do something (ANYTHING) with our back four and all he's managed so far is Gooch on loan - the first choice back 4 mentioned in the opening post is f****** s****. We'll see what happens this window, but anyone expecting a dramatic turnaround in the ability of Roeder/Shepherd to operate effectively within a transfer window is blindly optimistic imo. They've f***** up 2 out of 2 so far. I'm expecting the hat trick in the summer. Which means that imo things probably won't be a great deal better at all next year. Roeder didn't buy Carr, Babayaro, Moore or Bramble - its a bit unfair to pin that one on him. Perhaps you could tell me which defensive players were available in the January window ? Upson - the 46minute £6m wonderplay perhaps? Bearing in mind that Taylor and Ramage are the only defenders likely to stay at the club, I think that some activity is pretty inevitable - don't you? And I'm confident that Roeder will bring in defenders with a little more substance than Moore, Boumsong and Babayaro. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 grameh how long has Roeder been at the club? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 It's not really about 'settled', it's about QUALITY. Next. you should write a book with insights like that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 It's not really about 'settled', it's about QUALITY. Next. you should write a book with insights like that Back of fag packet will be enough for punters like you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 It's not really about 'settled', it's about QUALITY. Next. you should write a book with insights like that Back of fag packet will be enough for punters like you. aye, how's that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest graemeh72 Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 It's not really about 'settled', it's about QUALITY. Next. Success definitely requires both ..... as I'm sure Mourinho would testify (Parky - Interesting choice of homo-erotic Hockney picture by the way) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Sorry, but he's had two transfer windows to do something (ANYTHING) with our back four and all he's managed so far is Gooch on loan - the first choice back 4 mentioned in the opening post is f****** s****. We'll see what happens this window, but anyone expecting a dramatic turnaround in the ability of Roeder/Shepherd to operate effectively within a transfer window is blindly optimistic imo. They've f***** up 2 out of 2 so far. I'm expecting the hat trick in the summer. Which means that imo things probably won't be a great deal better at all next year. Roeder didn't buy Carr, Babayaro, Moore or Bramble - its a bit unfair to pin that one on him. Perhaps you could tell me which defensive players were available in the January window ? Upson - the 46minute £6m wonderplay perhaps? Bearing in mind that Taylor and Ramage are the only defenders likely to stay at the club, I think that some activity is pretty inevitable - don't you? And I'm confident that Roeder will bring in defenders with a little more substance than Moore, Boumsong and Babayaro. Exactly. Last summers transfer funds may have been planned to sign defenders, but that all changed once Owen got injured in the summer, and we needed a main striker. Can't see how we'd have been much better off this season with a couple of defenders but not having Martins instead?? We probably spent more than most last summer, and whilst we seem to have got stitched up over Duff, i'm not sure £5m spent on that defence would have turned it into world beaters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemmill Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Sorry, but he's had two transfer windows to do something (ANYTHING) with our back four and all he's managed so far is Gooch on loan - the first choice back 4 mentioned in the opening post is f****** s****. We'll see what happens this window, but anyone expecting a dramatic turnaround in the ability of Roeder/Shepherd to operate effectively within a transfer window is blindly optimistic imo. They've f***** up 2 out of 2 so far. I'm expecting the hat trick in the summer. Which means that imo things probably won't be a great deal better at all next year. Roeder didn't buy Carr, Babayaro, Moore or Bramble - its a bit unfair to pin that one on him. Perhaps you could tell me which defensive players were available in the January window ? Upson - the 46minute £6m wonderplay perhaps? Bearing in mind that Taylor and Ramage are the only defenders likely to stay at the club, I think that some activity is pretty inevitable - don't you? And I'm confident that Roeder will bring in defenders with a little more substance than Moore, Boumsong and Babayaro. See that's where theories like yours fall down. When you start demanding that fellow fans list the defenders that were available during the transfer window. I don't know because a) I don't work in the football industry, and b) I'm not qualified to judge a player's potential/current ability. Roeder and his team of coaches/scouts is supposed to be though. The suggestion that there were no (literally ZERO) players available in world football that would have been an improvement on ours is utterly preposterous though. The fact is that we didn't cast the net wide enough because our inept manager is out of his depth when it comes to transfer dealings. We'll see how he does this summer though eh? I thought some activity on improving the defence was pretty inevitable last summer by the way - didn't you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 It's not really about 'settled', it's about QUALITY. Next. Success definitely requires both ..... as I'm sure Mourinho would testify (Parky - Interesting choice of homo-erotic Hockney picture by the way) Mourinho is the most def minded manager in the PL, closely followed by Allardyce, they both play a core holding diamond or variations of that. The only differance is that Mourinho gives license for a CD or DM to break forward in certain situations (Carvalho is the obvious example)...It is why he only buys def who can play with the ball at their feet ie very good quality. The 'ghost' defender often creates havoc on the counter in the old Sacchi style also used by Trappatoni and later variations by Mourinho. A simple attacking and def style in the PL is no longer viable if you want to be challenging...hence the need for utter quality in the def who can think and pass, something none of our boys (bar Solano when he plays RB) can do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andynufc84 Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Anyone remember what Sir Bob's first full season was like at Newcastle? Anyone remember some of his signings? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemmill Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Anyone remember what Sir Bob's first full season was like at Newcastle? Anyone remember some of his signings? Is the Roeder/Robson comparison supposed to be a valid one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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