Fantastic article in the NOTW by Martin Samuel.

[NE5]

It's a good piece written by a journo that I have very little time for most of the time, but this time he has got it spot on.  If the team that has finished 5th for the past 2 seasons sells off its star attraction, it would be admitting defeat in the chase to break into the top 4.

 

With Hargreaves on his way for £17m, Man Utd wouldn't appear to be likely bidders.   Juventus might wish to test Levy again, they offered €40m late last week and got sorry, not for sale.  I've said before that Levy is adamant that he won't sell Berba at any price, whether he says the same about Chimbonda to Chelsea is more debateable.

 

Come on, if silly money is offered - he'll be off. We all know this. EVERY player in every team has his price. If Chelsea offered, for arguments sake £26m, could any chairman turn it down?

 

Well, the €40m offered by Juve is roughly £26.7m and that was turned down.  He's not worth it but I stick with my statement in an earlier thread that I don't think Levy would even remotely consider selling Berbatov for less than £30m, probably £35m.  He gives Spurs the best chance to break into the top 4, not because he can do it on his own but by keeping him, other players who might have thought about only the top 4 when moving may now consider a 5th option.

 

OK then! Just to be pedantic what about £36m? My point is that every player has a certain amount that can not be turned down and if the buying club keep coming back with more money, eventually a bid is going to be accepted. The wishes/ambition of the player become irrelevant.

 

Berba has publicly said he is happy at Spurs, I don't think Levy would sell him at any price with the player's own words ready to be thrown back at him should he be sold against his wishes.  Negotiations are very nearly complete for an extended contract taking him up to 2013 and doubling his money.  But as, currently, he is only on £22k pw he could still earn far more elsewhere.

 

Find it hard to believe he wouldn't be sold for 'any price' but I suppose we'll just have to wait and see what happens in the next couple of years. 

 

When Newcastle got close to the Premiership under KK, how much would they have sold Shearer for?   The answer would have been 'not for sale' no matter what figure was thrown at Newcastle......... and rightly so imo.

 

It would have been 'not for sale' but more because we didn't own him at that point.

 

you knew what he meant

 

 

[Shak]

Much depends on Berbatov himself. If he wants to go, he'll be off. To his credit though, it seems he's happy to stay and that can only be a good thing for English football in general, much as I dislike Spurs.

 

Long term, the spending power of Chelsea and Man U (and possibly Liverpool shortly) is very, very worrying though. I strongly believe that the best thing that can happen long term is a salary cap of some sort. It's the only way you can really stop teams from building teams full of big name, high wage players.

 

Doing it will be extremely difficult though, with the way the league and transfer system is at present.

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

"And then, when we have successfully shifted every ounce of talent to the same two clubs we will wring our hands and ask why our Premiership is so uncompetitive."

 

I read that "we" as the Media. The media want Owen to leave NUFC. They never wanted Owen at NUFC. Whenever any player not at a top 4 club does well the media try to engineer a move. The players "need" Champions League football apparently. I would have thought with Owen just coming back from a major injury and lay off, and his already fragile fitness record he could do with a season without the extra games Europe brings.

 

It's the same with the England. Players at 'glamour' clubs get picked regardless of form compared to players at less fashionable clubs.

 

Regarding the money situation, that's one of the reasons I'm happy we've got Allardyce. Let Man U and Chelsea buy discovered talent for mega money. I'd be happier to get some undiscovered bargains.

[Northern Monkey]

The media rarely manufacture player moves. They may play a part in the process, but its blinkered to think that the vast majority of high profile moves aren't engineered by the players and their agents, or bigger clubs just coming alongwith their chequebooks.

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

The media rarely manufacture player moves. They may play a part in the process, but its blinkered to think that the vast majority of high profile moves aren't engineered by the players and their agents, or bigger clubs just coming alongwith their chequebooks.

I know but a lot of it is down to the Media and the agents i.e. Player reads press about how he should move clubs so he will get picked for England/play in Europe/etc, agent tells player he should move, agent tells the media to start dropping the hints.

[Northern Monkey]

The media rarely manufacture player moves. They may play a part in the process, but its blinkered to think that the vast majority of high profile moves aren't engineered by the players and their agents, or bigger clubs just coming alongwith their chequebooks.

I know but a lot of it is down to the Media and the agents i.e. Player reads press about how he should move clubs so he will get picked for England/play in Europe/etc, agent tells player he should move, agent tells the media to start dropping the hints.

 

But that isn't the media engineering it. Its the agent and usually the player using the media as a tool, nothing more.

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

But that isn't the media engineering it. Its the agent and usually the player using the media as a tool, nothing more.

I'd say the media did everything they could to stop Owen coming to NUFC. All the negative stories after he signed showed they weren't happy.

[Guest]

 

The problem you have with Owen is that you also have a punative clause which is holding his price down to the detriment of the club.

 

Evidence of this? Or just the paper talk you're reading.

[merlin]

Samuel's article pinpoints the growing(and sad)reality of English(AND European)Football - the power is becoming concentrated among a select gruop of clubs, reflecting the situation Scotland has had for years.

Money talks in these situations, and although many do not like foreigners taking over English clubs, it is the only way any club with genuine ambition can realistically hope to break into the Top 4(or make it Top 6 again).

Agents & the Bosman ruling have altered the game forever, and not for the better - the players have far too much power to manipulate a move if they so want one, and that is likely to be to one of the clubs perceived as successful.

NUFC had a unique situation with Shearer, and one that is unlikely to arise again(unless the player concerned was an Academy product and happy to remain in the area).

Whether you like him or not, Shepherd's stance on refusing to sell his shares under ANY circumstances will cost the club the necessary investment it needs to compete with the most successful clubs - he cannot compete financially with some of the huge money coming into the game(takeovers at L/Pool, West Ham,

Villa already done, City & Spurs looking next targets - and who is to say Dein won't re-emerge at Arsenal, complete with another affort to dislodge Hill-Wood & Co?).

 

There is now huge competition for the best players, and the old maxim applies - Big fish eat little fish, and Bigger fish eat them.....

 

Clubs like NUFC need a really good academy production-line now if they are to remain a genuine long-term challenger to the Top 4 - the really sought-after Foreign players(like Huntelaar, for example) will always choose Man U, L/pool, Arsenal or Chelsea over us in a straight-choice contest - only long-term success will alter that.

The situation with Spurs is slightly different - as a London club, they DO have a geographical advantage over us, but that is all.

[Delima]

Samuel's article pinpoints the growing(and sad)reality of English(AND European)Football - the power is becoming concentrated among a select gruop of clubs, reflecting the situation Scotland has had for years.

Money talks in these situations, and although many do not like foreigners taking over English clubs, it is the only way any club with genuine ambition can realistically hope to break into the Top 4(or make it Top 6 again).

Agents & the Bosman ruling have altered the game forever, and not for the better - the players have far too much power to manipulate a move if they so want one, and that is likely to be to one of the clubs perceived as successful.

NUFC had a unique situation with Shearer, and one that is unlikely to arise again(unless the player concerned was an Academy product and happy to remain in the area).

Whether you like him or not, Shepherd's stance on refusing to sell his shares under ANY circumstances will cost the club the necessary investment it needs to compete with the most successful clubs - he cannot compete financially with some of the huge money coming into the game(takeovers at L/Pool, West Ham,

Villa already done, City & Spurs looking next targets - and who is to say Dein won't re-emerge at Arsenal, complete with another affort to dislodge Hill-Wood & Co?).

 

There is now huge competition for the best players, and the old maxim applies - Big fish eat little fish, and Bigger fish eat them.....

 

Clubs like NUFC need a really good academy production-line now if they are to remain a genuine long-term challenger to the Top 4 - the really sought-after Foreign players(like Huntelaar, for example) will always choose Man U, L/pool, Arsenal or Chelsea over us in a straight-choice contest - only long-term success will alter that.

The situation with Spurs is slightly different - as a London club, they DO have a geographical advantage over us, but that is all.

 

True but when you have stupid, simpleteon chairman like Freddy Shepherd hopes for success for lesser clubs is rather limited.

 

On the other hand if you have competent, ambitious management there are always hopes and indeed there are. Just look at Arsenal, Spurs and Everton.

[Guest]

Shepherd has came a lot closer to breaking the top 4 than what Spurs & Everton have done in the last 5 years tbh. Spurs finished 5th twice, Everton 4th once, but for 3 years (with Shepherd as chairman), we were right in amongst it.

[Delima]

Shepherd has came a lot closer to breaking the top 4 than what Spurs & Everton have done in the last 5 years tbh. Spurs finished 5th twice, Everton 4th once, but for 3 years (with Shepherd as chairman), we were right in amongst it.

 

We spent a lot more money. We had more time. We were in much better position before Shepherd took over (as compared to other new current aspiring chairman)

[Guest]

Shepherd has came a lot closer to breaking the top 4 than what Spurs & Everton have done in the last 5 years tbh. Spurs finished 5th twice, Everton 4th once, but for 3 years (with Shepherd as chairman), we were right in amongst it.

 

We spent a lot more money. We had more time. We were in much better position before Shepherd took over (as compared to other new current aspiring chairman)

 

Spurs haven't exactly spent tuppence have they? Sure I heard the other day that over the last 2-3 years, they've spent the 2nd most in England behind Chelsea.

[Delima]

Spurs haven't exactly spent tuppence have they? Sure I heard the other day that over the last 2-3 years, they've spent the 2nd most in England behind Chelsea.

 

Would love to hear where you got the information from? I don't think they are the 2nd highest spender after Chelsea, and the make a lot of money selling players too.

 

My own research

 

2006/2007

 

 

In

 

Didier Zokora - 8.2M

Dimitar Berbatov - 10.9M

Mido - 4.5M

Steed Malbranque - 2M

Pascal Chimbonda - 6M

Ben Alnwick - 900K

Ricardo Rocha - 3.3M

Benoît Assou-Ekotto - 3.5M

 

Total - 34.8M

 

Out

 

Stephen Kelly - 750K

Gregory Rasiak - 2M

Michael Carrick - 18.6M

Andy Reid - 3M

Marton Fullop - 500K

Calum Davenport - 3M

 

Total - 27.85M

 

2005/2006

 

Out

 

Simon Davi

Pedro Mendez es - 4M

Noe Pamarot, Sean Davies, Pedro Mendez - 7.5M

 

In

 

Danny Murphy - 2M

Lee Yong Pyo - ??- 2M

Teemu Taino - Free

Paul Stalteri - Free

Jermaine Jenas - 7M

Aaron Lennon - 1M

 

2004/2005

 

In

 

Paul Robinson - 1.5M

Jermaine Defoe - 7M

Pedro Mendes - 2M

Sean Davies - ??

Noe Paramot - 1.75M

Michael Dawson + Michael Brown - 8M

[merlin]

Shepherd has came a lot closer to breaking the top 4 than what Spurs & Everton have done in the last 5 years tbh. Spurs finished 5th twice, Everton 4th once, but for 3 years (with Shepherd as chairman), we were right in amongst it.

[/quote

 

 

You are surely not claiming that Shepherd's Chairmanship was responsible for these 3 seasons' relative success ?? The seasons of success came to an end when he refused to give the manager funds to strengthen the side prior to 2003/4, when we were in the Qualifying round of the CL.

That decision almost certainly cost us the game against Partizan Belgrade, and with it, 15m in revenue.

He ducked the tough decision at that time , which was to move SBR upstairs & replace him - if he didn't think the manager was up to the job anymore, that is what he should have done, just as Liverpool did with Houllier and Benitez.Look where they are now......

 

Also, Chelsea have been taken over by Abramovitch in the period after 2003, thus increasing the competition, as I pointed out in my first posting.

[Raconteur]

That decision almost certainly cost us the game against Partizan Belgrade, and with it, 15m in revenue.

 

Simply cannot agree with that comment - the team we had on the pitch, irrespective of whether or not it should have been strengthened, should certainly have been sufficient to beat Partizan Belgrade.

 

One theory is that Shepherd waited for the result of that match before committing funds to the strengthening of the squad, and it is a position with some merit.

 

[Martin Lol]

Spurs haven't exactly spent tuppence have they? Sure I heard the other day that over the last 2-3 years, they've spent the 2nd most in England behind Chelsea.

 

Would love to hear where you got the information from? I don't think they are the 2nd highest spender after Chelsea, and the make a lot of money selling players too.

 

My own research

 

2006/2007

 

 

In

 

Didier Zokora - 8.2M

Dimitar Berbatov - 10.9M

Mido - 4.5M

Steed Malbranque - 2M

Pascal Chimbonda - 6M

Ben Alnwick - 900K

Ricardo Rocha - 3.3M

Benoît Assou-Ekotto - 3.5M

 

Total - 34.8M

 

Out

 

Stephen Kelly - 750K

Gregory Rasiak - 2M

Michael Carrick - 18.6M

Andy Reid - 3M

Marton Fullop - 500K

Calum Davenport - 3M

 

Total - 27.85M

 

2005/2006

 

Out

 

Simon Davi

Pedro Mendez es - 4M

Noe Pamarot, Sean Davies, Pedro Mendez - 7.5M

 

In

 

Danny Murphy - 2M

Lee Yong Pyo - ??- 2M

Teemu Taino - Free

Paul Stalteri - Free

Jermaine Jenas - 7M

Aaron Lennon - 1M

 

2004/2005

 

In

 

Paul Robinson - 1.5M

Jermaine Defoe - 7M

Pedro Mendes - 2M

Sean Davies - ??

Noe Paramot - 1.75M

Michael Dawson + Michael Brown - 8M

 

If it's being said that Spurs are the 2nd highest spenders over the past 3 years then tbh I wouldn't argue.  I haven't got any specific details but your list, especially for Arnesen's first year is nowhere near complete.  Off the top of my head, there's Ziegler, Defendi, Naybet, Davenport, Routledge, Atouba, Dilevski, Halfreddson and Davids missing.  Almost everyone from that time has gone or is on the verge of going and we never made a loss on the vast majority of them, so the outlay was recovered, but 2nd highest spenders, yes, that's probably accurate.

[merlin]

That decision almost certainly cost us the game against Partizan Belgrade, and with it, 15m in revenue.

 

Simply cannot agree with that comment - the team we had on the pitch, irrespective of whether or not it should have been strengthened, should certainly have been sufficient to beat Partizan Belgrade.

 

One theory is that Shepherd waited for the result of that match before committing funds to the strengthening of the squad, and it is a position with some merit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The team were complacent because they knew what was happening, i.e., no more competition for places

due to the lack of transfer activity - yes, they SHOULD have been able to beat PB, but the mental attitude

was wrong - they knew SBR had been undermined.

[NE5]

That decision almost certainly cost us the game against Partizan Belgrade, and with it, 15m in revenue.

 

Simply cannot agree with that comment - the team we had on the pitch, irrespective of whether or not it should have been strengthened, should certainly have been sufficient to beat Partizan Belgrade.

 

One theory is that Shepherd waited for the result of that match before committing funds to the strengthening of the squad, and it is a position with some merit.

 

 

I completely agree, but don't expect those applying hindsight to agree with you. They will be the same people who are slating the club for spending too much money too, ironically. They won't understand that either.

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Spurs haven't exactly spent tuppence have they? Sure I heard the other day that over the last 2-3 years, they've spent the 2nd most in England behind Chelsea.

 

Would love to hear where you got the information from? I don't think they are the 2nd highest spender after Chelsea, and the make a lot of money selling players too.

 

My own research

 

2006/2007

 

 

In

 

Didier Zokora - 8.2M

Dimitar Berbatov - 10.9M

Mido - 4.5M

Steed Malbranque - 2M

Pascal Chimbonda - 6M

Ben Alnwick - 900K

Ricardo Rocha - 3.3M

Benoît Assou-Ekotto - 3.5M

 

Total - 34.8M

 

Out

 

Stephen Kelly - 750K

Gregory Rasiak - 2M

Michael Carrick - 18.6M

Andy Reid - 3M

Marton Fullop - 500K

Calum Davenport - 3M

 

Total - 27.85M

 

2005/2006

 

Out

 

Simon Davi

Pedro Mendez es - 4M

Noe Pamarot, Sean Davies, Pedro Mendez - 7.5M

 

In

 

Danny Murphy - 2M

Lee Yong Pyo - ??- 2M

Teemu Taino - Free

Paul Stalteri - Free

Jermaine Jenas - 7M

Aaron Lennon - 1M

 

2004/2005

 

In

 

Paul Robinson - 1.5M

Jermaine Defoe - 7M

Pedro Mendes - 2M

Sean Davies - ??

Noe Paramot - 1.75M

Michael Dawson + Michael Brown - 8M

 

If it's being said that Spurs are the 2nd highest spenders over the past 3 years then tbh I wouldn't argue.  I haven't got any specific details but your list, especially for Arnesen's first year is nowhere near complete.  Off the top of my head, there's Ziegler, Defendi, Naybet, Davenport, Routledge, Atouba, Dilevski, Halfreddson and Davids missing.  Almost everyone from that time has gone or is on the verge of going and we never made a loss on the vast majority of them, so the outlay was recovered, but 2nd highest spenders, yes, that's probably accurate.

 

Rasiak for £5m was it as well?

[wacko]

That decision almost certainly cost us the game against Partizan Belgrade, and with it, 15m in revenue.

 

Simply cannot agree with that comment - the team we had on the pitch, irrespective of whether or not it should have been strengthened, should certainly have been sufficient to beat Partizan Belgrade.

 

One theory is that Shepherd waited for the result of that match before committing funds to the strengthening of the squad, and it is a position with some merit.

 

It's the only sensible way to operate. You can't spend 15m you don't have and expect to get away with it. We bought Alonso and Kuyt with the CL money, once we'd qualified for the group stage.

[Guest kingdawson]

Spurs haven't exactly spent tuppence have they? Sure I heard the other day that over the last 2-3 years, they've spent the 2nd most in England behind Chelsea.

 

Would love to hear where you got the information from? I don't think they are the 2nd highest spender after Chelsea, and the make a lot of money selling players too.

 

My own research

 

2006/2007

 

 

In

 

Didier Zokora - 8.2M

Dimitar Berbatov - 10.9M

Mido - 4.5M

Steed Malbranque - 2M

Pascal Chimbonda - 6M

Ben Alnwick - 900K

Ricardo Rocha - 3.3M

Benoît Assou-Ekotto - 3.5M

 

Total - 34.8M

 

Out

 

Stephen Kelly - 750K

Gregory Rasiak - 2M

Michael Carrick - 18.6M

Andy Reid - 3M

Marton Fullop - 500K

Calum Davenport - 3M

 

Total - 27.85M

 

2005/2006

 

Out

 

Simon Davi

Pedro Mendez es - 4M

Noe Pamarot, Sean Davies, Pedro Mendez - 7.5M

 

In

 

Danny Murphy - 2M

Lee Yong Pyo - ??- 2M

Teemu Taino - Free

Paul Stalteri - Free

Jermaine Jenas - 7M

Aaron Lennon - 1M

 

2004/2005

 

In

 

Paul Robinson - 1.5M

Jermaine Defoe - 7M

Pedro Mendes - 2M

Sean Davies - ??

Noe Paramot - 1.75M

Michael Dawson + Michael Brown - 8M

 

If it's being said that Spurs are the 2nd highest spenders over the past 3 years then tbh I wouldn't argue.  I haven't got any specific details but your list, especially for Arnesen's first year is nowhere near complete.  Off the top of my head, there's Ziegler, Defendi, Naybet, Davenport, Routledge, Atouba, Dilevski, Halfreddson and Davids missing.  Almost everyone from that time has gone or is on the verge of going and we never made a loss on the vast majority of them, so the outlay was recovered, but 2nd highest spenders, yes, that's probably accurate.

 

Rasiak for £5m was it as well?

 

Rasiak was 2 million.

 

tbh Delima has got it spot on. We usually recoup all the money we spend, kind of like a 'one in one out' process.

[merlin]

That decision almost certainly cost us the game against Partizan Belgrade, and with it, 15m in revenue.

 

Simply cannot agree with that comment - the team we had on the pitch, irrespective of whether or not it should have been strengthened, should certainly have been sufficient to beat Partizan Belgrade.

 

One theory is that Shepherd waited for the result of that match before committing funds to the strengthening of the squad, and it is a position with some merit.

 

It's the only sensible way to operate. You can't spend 15m you don't have and expect to get away with it. We bought Alonso and Kuyt with the CL money, once we'd qualified for the group stage.

 

 

 

Is this why the Chairman was right to spend 17m on Owen, but also right NOT to support his manager prior to a CL Qualifying campaign....!!??

[Offshore]

That decision almost certainly cost us the game against Partizan Belgrade, and with it, 15m in revenue.

 

Simply cannot agree with that comment - the team we had on the pitch, irrespective of whether or not it should have been strengthened, should certainly have been sufficient to beat Partizan Belgrade.

 

One theory is that Shepherd waited for the result of that match before committing funds to the strengthening of the squad, and it is a position with some merit.

 

It's the only sensible way to operate. You can't spend 15m you don't have and expect to get away with it. We bought Alonso and Kuyt with the CL money, once we'd qualified for the group stage.

 

 

 

Is this why the Chairman was right to spend 17m on Owen, but also right NOT to support his manager prior to a CL Qualifying campaign....!!??

 

Owen was to be Shearer's replacement.

 

and as said, the team we had at the time should have been more than adequate to get through the qualifiers.

[Martin Lol]

Spurs haven't exactly spent tuppence have they? Sure I heard the other day that over the last 2-3 years, they've spent the 2nd most in England behind Chelsea.

 

Would love to hear where you got the information from? I don't think they are the 2nd highest spender after Chelsea, and the make a lot of money selling players too.

 

My own research

 

2006/2007

 

 

In

 

Didier Zokora - 8.2M

Dimitar Berbatov - 10.9M

Mido - 4.5M

Steed Malbranque - 2M

Pascal Chimbonda - 6M

Ben Alnwick - 900K

Ricardo Rocha - 3.3M

Benoît Assou-Ekotto - 3.5M

 

Total - 34.8M

 

Out

 

Stephen Kelly - 750K

Gregory Rasiak - 2M

Michael Carrick - 18.6M

Andy Reid - 3M

Marton Fullop - 500K

Calum Davenport - 3M

 

Total - 27.85M

 

2005/2006

 

Out

 

Simon Davi

Pedro Mendez es - 4M

Noe Pamarot, Sean Davies, Pedro Mendez - 7.5M

 

In

 

Danny Murphy - 2M

Lee Yong Pyo - ??- 2M

Teemu Taino - Free

Paul Stalteri - Free

Jermaine Jenas - 7M

Aaron Lennon - 1M

 

2004/2005

 

In

 

Paul Robinson - 1.5M

Jermaine Defoe - 7M

Pedro Mendes - 2M

Sean Davies - ??

Noe Paramot - 1.75M

Michael Dawson + Michael Brown - 8M

 

If it's being said that Spurs are the 2nd highest spenders over the past 3 years then tbh I wouldn't argue.  I haven't got any specific details but your list, especially for Arnesen's first year is nowhere near complete.  Off the top of my head, there's Ziegler, Defendi, Naybet, Davenport, Routledge, Atouba, Dilevski, Halfreddson and Davids missing.  Almost everyone from that time has gone or is on the verge of going and we never made a loss on the vast majority of them, so the outlay was recovered, but 2nd highest spenders, yes, that's probably accurate.

 

Rasiak for £5m was it as well?

 

The last minute of the last day of window last option?  No.  Bought for £2.2m, sold for £2m.  Bearing in mind how useless he was, we came out of that almost smelling of roses.