Delima Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 The Guardian Had Liverpool secured Dani Alves, they wouldn't have suffered the inconsistency of Jermaine Pennant. Had they signed Simao Sabrosa, they wouldn't have needed to play the ineffective Zenden on the left. And they wouldn't need to gamble on Gonzalez. Had they got Nemanja Vidic, they wouldn't need Agger who is younger, less ready and more a gamble. Though Agger is an excellent defender so they haven't missed much. Gabriel Milito - see aobve. Theo Walcott, Abou Diaby and Denilson are all young talents destined for big things. I think this does go on and prove that for top teams aspiring for titles, quality cannot be sacrificed for quantity. Man Utd suffered this not so long ago when they signed a plethora of young flops. They have learned the lesson and decide solely on qualities and bring in the likes of Ronaldo, Rooney, Evra, Vidic, Carrick, and now Hargreaves. Liverpool are now learning the lesson, finally, while Wenger has realised this long ago and decide to gamble alltogether on quality kids instead of paying huge sums for not so top quality players who won't bring them lasting success. Jose Mourinho justs goes out and spend and spend for both quality and quantity. In 3 years time who will be top of the league? It would be trully interesting. PS As much as I like Benitez I think he should complain less about the restriction of funds. He is the manager and he should work wonder (big ask I know). The club can't go on and spend infinitely too. If there is a limit tough luck but he can console himself he has done very well. Their side haven't been outplayed in the Champions League final. Benítez: spend big now or risk losing me Dominic Fifield Friday May 25, 2007 The Guardian Rafael Benítez has issued a stark warning to Liverpool's American owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, that the club must spend lavishly in the transfer market this summer if they are to mount any kind of concerted Premiership challenge next season, suggesting that failure to do so would have serious implications on his own long-term future at Anfield. The Spaniard, his temper still simmering following Wednesday's European Cup final defeat by Milan, launched a thinly veiled attack on senior management at the club, principally the chief executive Rick Parry who undertakes transfer negotiations, by voicing long-held concerns that Liverpool "talk and talk but never finish" when it comes to the prospective signings of players. Benítez claimed to know of two "top-class targets" he could sign now for around £13m each, while a failure to act swiftly would see Liverpool finishing well adrift in the title race again next term. "If we don't change things right now and understand how crucial this moment is, we will waste another one or two months on two or three targets and we'll start having to sign third-choice players," said Benítez, who signed a new contract last summer, extending to 2010, but whose patience has clearly been wearing thin. "That would leave us contenders to be in the top four. Nothing else. After three years working really hard, we've not progressed enough. I have confidence in the Americans because they say they will back me, but I want to see things happening right now. I'm tired of talking, talking. We talk and talk but we never finish." Most worryingly for Liverpool's supporters, Benítez drew comparisons with events at his previous club, Valencia, where frustration that he was not given carte blanche to reshape his squad eventually prompted his resignation. "At Valencia we won the league for the first time in 31 years, but the club thought we were winners already and decided they didn't need to sign any more players, and we finished fifth the next season," he said. "It is the situation I've been watching here in the last few years. They say we are close, but we are not close. We are 21 points behind and we cannot work harder. I cannot work more than 20 hours a day. "We have improved every year, but Chelsea, Arsenal and United have done the same. The team that won the Premier League this year have just spent £20m after winning the title on one midfielder [Owen Hargreaves]. I want things to be done. We have some targets, top-class players, but if you spend two or three weeks waiting, then talking and talking, you either cannot sign the player or have to pay more money. "We can sign two top-class targets for €20m each right now. Maybe we didn't have enough money in the past, but now we have new owners who can invest £400m in the club. If we don't do the right things right now, we'll miss the opportunity and next season we'll be talking about third or fourth and 20 points behind again." Benitez had substantial backing under David Moores' regime, and 11 of the 18-man squad for the Athens final were his signings. Indeed, Hicks and Gillett have commissioned Deloitte & Touche to conduct an independent report on the Spaniard's spending to date. Yet he has consistently argued that the entire Liverpool squad required revamping upon his arrival in the summer of 2004. Since then he has been infuriated to miss out on targets, such as Daniel Alves at Sevilla, Simao Sabrosa of Benfica, Nemanja Vidic at Spartak Moscow and Real Zaragoza's Gabriel Milito. He also felt Liverpool should have secured Theo Walcott, Abou Diaby and Denilson, all of whom joined Arsenal. That reflects directly upon Parry, whose position could come under closer scrutiny this summer when Foster Gillett, the joint-owner's son, takes up a permanent position. Benítez is also perplexed that contract renegotiations with Xabi Alonso and José Reina have moved sluggishly. Online own goal: To the pain of defeat was added embarrassment on Wednesday night after Liverpool's website, somewhat prematurely, claimed victory in the Champions League final. In its defence, it also claimed defeat after pages that had been prepared to cover both eventualities were mistakenly put online, much to the delight of Italy's La Repubblica and Spain's Marca, both of which wrote crowing reports. Liverpool claimed neither page had been "live", which stops some way short of explaining their accessibility across Europe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 The Independent Josemi, Malaga, £2m - Failure, but no much loss. Garcia, Barcelona, £6m - Success Alonso, Real Sociedad, £10.5m - Success Morientes, Real Madrid, £6.3m - Failure Reina, Villarreal, £6m - Success Mark Gonzalez, Albacete, £4.5m - Failure Mohamed Sissoko, Valencia, £5.6m - Moderate success/failure Peter Crouch, Southampton, £7m - Success Daniel Agger, Brondby, £5.8m - Success Bellamy, Blackburn, £6m - Failure Pennant, Birmingham, £6.7m - Failure Kuyt, Feyenoord, £9m - Jury still out Arbeloa, Deportivo, £2.6m - Jury still out. Mascherano, West Ham, £1.5m* - Success An average net spending of 15 M £ per year. Not too much not too little just nice I think, especially given their runs in various cups. Benitez plays dangerous game by refusing to share the blame By Sam Wallace, Football Correspondent Published: 25 May 2007 After the pain came the blame. A warning about the future of Liverpool delivered by a manager whose reputation for invective is closer to Sir Geoffrey Howe than Sir Alex Ferguson. Rafael Benitez wagged a finger at Liverpool's new American owners yesterday and he set an ultimatum that they had to reform or die, to spend or fail. It was, among other things, a spectacular diversion. Benitez was a manager aggrieved, still smarting from a defeat that he neatly rationalised as unavoidable given the players at his disposal. Having absolved himself of any of the blame, Benitez chose his moment to marshal his popularity among the supporters. He cast himself as the manager who had performed miracles on precious little resources, the master tactician who could not be expected to turn water into wine forever. It was part-excuse, part-threat but it was not an explanation for Liverpool's 2-1 defeat in Wednesday's Champions League final. They lost that game because with Milan vulnerable, Benitez refused to let go of precepts that have served him so well over the years. He is undoubtedly a brilliant strategist, a man whose game of containment has had an astonishing effect against sides like Barcelona and Chelsea this year but, as time ran out on Wednesday, he was too reluctant to abandon it. Only with 12 minutes left did he finally introduce a second striker. And with two minutes remaining he was changing his full-backs. There was a bizarre futility in that last substitution of Alvaro Arbeloa for Steve Finnan that encapsulated the inert state of Liverpool for much of the night. The culture of conservatism runs deep in Benitez. He is a measured, astute tactician who has taught his side to thrive in Europe a certain way. Against Milan, however, the context of the game was changing and the Italians were plainly struggling to find any real form. If being one goal down with 45 minutes remaining in a European Cup final cannot persuade Benitez that he needs more than one striker on the pitch then the question that begs itself is: what will? The Liverpool manager is a stubborn man of quiet conviction, and Wednesday told us once again that he does not make decisions in haste. He is detached from his players, a terse, obsessive character whose capacity for masking his own disappointment has rarely overflowed - until yesterday. He must have weighed his words carefully because laying the burden of expectation squarely at the feet of the club's new owners, was a move of some boldness. George Gillett and Tom Hicks are clearly enamoured of their manager - who would not be? - but equally they do not seem the type of businessmen to indulge him just because the court of public opinion tells them to. Benitez is at a critical point with his club of three years. English football is full of the careers of managers who believed that they could strong-arm their club's boards on the back of successful seasons. Some found themselves quietly shoved back into their places, others were gradually hustled to the exit. In recent years Ferguson, Jose Mourinho, even Gérard Houllier at Liverpool have discovered that trophies can allow you to ride the tide of public opinion for only so long. It is a dangerous game. Benitez evidently feels that his record makes him untouchable for now and that it is the duty of the club to keep pace with his ambition. The heat is now on the club, which is evidently how the Liverpool manager wants it, although he cannot blame every defeat and setback upon the club's infrastructure. Even now it seems implausible that Liverpool will seriously compete with Chelsea and Manchester United in the transfer market - especially with a new stadium in the next three or four years. Yesterday, Benitez hinted at delays and mismanagement in the signing of players, and stressed that he held Gillett and Hicks responsible for backing him with transfer money. He said a lot of things that will be used in evidence against him if he fails. His transfer record has not been exemplary so far. Xabi Alonso, Jose Reina and Peter Crouch can be counted among his successes but a closer scrutiny of profit and loss tells another story. Benitez should try recouping his £4.5m when he sells Mark Gonzalez to Real Betis or reassessing the price of £9m for Dirk Kuyt. And will Gabriel Paletta ever be worth £2m again? Over the last two transfer windows Benitez has spent £18.3m on Kuyt, Jermaine Pennant and Arbeloa alone. If his pursuit of a prolific striker is indeed a priority then even players like Samuel Eto'o and Fernando Torres will have to be persuaded that a 4-5-1 system in which Kuyt in particular has had to struggle alone can also suit them. Big name European goalscorers joining Liverpool may just consider themselves like a string quartet going on tour with Bob Dylan. A nice option to have but not guaranteed to be central to the action every night. Benitez's words will have reverberated with Liverpool's new owners, they will surely be echoed by the fans but they cannot have sat easily with his players. They had barely been out the stadium 10 hours and already their manager had apportioned the blame. It was not him - with his 20-hour working days and unstinting devotion - whom he held responsible but a team of players that, he said in the nicest possible way, were not good enough. Benitez will have to hope this brinkmanship really does open the door to a new side - now that his existing squad know exactly what he thinks of them. Three years in the Red: How Liverpool's transfer record under Benitez compares to other major clubs 2004-05 Liverpool's major signings: Josemi, Malaga, £2m Garcia, Barcelona, £6m Alonso, Real Sociedad, £10.5m Morientes, Real Madrid, £6.3m Total expenditure: £26m Tot income from player sales: £11m Net spending: £15m Net spending for 2004-05 Chelsea £91m Man Utd £26m Arsenal £800,000 profit 2005-06 Liverpool's major signings: Reina, Villarreal, £6m Mark Gonzalez, Albacete, £4.5m Mohamed Sissoko, Valencia, £5.6m Peter Crouch, Southampton, £7m Daniel Agger, Brondby, £5.8m Total expenditure: £30m Total income from player sales: £12m Net spending: £18m Net spending for 2005-06 Chelsea £35m Man Utd £14m Arsenal £10m 2006-07 Liverpool's major signings: Bellamy, Blackburn, £6m Pennant, Birmingham, £6.7m Kuyt, Feyenoord, £9m Arbeloa, Deportivo, £2.6m Mascherano, West Ham, £1.5m* Total expenditure: £29m Total income from player sales: £16m Net spending: £13m Net spending for 2006-07 Chelsea £39m Man Utd £4m Arsenal £4m profit Figures are approximate, based on published estimates with totals rounded up to nearest million * though at end of 18-month loan deal, £18m fee will have to be paid to secure Mascherano's services permanently Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 He's right, there's no way you can expect Liverpool to compete with Man Utd and Chelsea's spending. Man U pay an average of 25m for their top strikers (Van Nistelrooy, Rooney) an average of 9m for their second strikers (Smith, Saha) and 18m for their defensive midfielders (Hargreaves, Carrick) Not to mention 30m for a centre back. Liverpools highest ever fee is 12 million for Alonso. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 He's right, there's no way you can expect Liverpool to compete with Man Utd and Chelsea's spending. Man U pay an average of 25m for their top strikers (Van Nistelrooy, Rooney) an average of 9m for their second strikers (Smith, Saha) and 18m for their defensive midfielders (Hargreaves, Carrick) Not to mention 30m for a centre back. Liverpools highest ever fee is 12 million for Alonso. £14m for Cisse! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 The Guardian Anyone for us? John Arne Riise will do fine for us. Despite all the media analysis I still think he has a future in Anfield. Benitez has gone out to search for a new right back (Arbeloa, Neill, Alves), but after getting Aurelio Riise hasn't been squeezed out from the team yet. Zenden on a free anyone? He could be a good attacking midfielder like he was for Boro a few years ago. Anfield 2007-08: The summer cull Dominic Fifield Friday May 25, 2007 The Guardian On their way out Robbie Fowler The veteran has been released after 183 goals in 369 appearances and was not even included on the bench in Athens Mark González Took 18 months to complete his move from Albacete but after an unimpressive season is on his way to Real Betis Boudewijn Zenden Benítez has confirmed that the Holland international can find another club with his contract due to expire next month Jerzy Dudek The Polish goalkeeper will leave in search of regular first-team football.Benítez wanted him to stay another year Article continues Daniele Padelli The young goalkeeper has been on loan from Sampdoria but is unlikely to be retained having failed to shine Djibril Cissé Spent the year on loan at Marseille and Benítez does not consider that the £14m Frenchman has a future at Anfield Daniel Guthrie A youth-team graduate who has been on loan at Southampton, the midfielder's first-team prospects are rated very poor Anthony Le Tallec Has been on loan at Sochaux having failed to make an impression. A move back to France seems inevitable Open to offers Craig Bellamy Joined for £6m last summer but failed to adapt to Benítez's squad rotation. Blackburn are keen to re-sign him Scott Carson Despite a fine season on loan at relegated Charlton, a bid of £3m could seal the England squad player's departure Sami Hyypia Has 12 months to run on his contract but may view a move with the promise of first-team football a better option Peter Crouch It would take a lot for Benítez to sell, but it was telling that the England striker started Wednesday's game on the bench Jermaine Pennant Impressed in Athens, but Benítez wants to bolster his attacking midfield options and that could squeeze him out John Arne Riise Continues to score the odd spectacular goal, but is unconvincing at times as a full-back at the highest level Harry Kewell Only three substitute appearances in the season due to injuries. Has a year left on his contract but is effectively available Alvaro Arbeloa Joined from Deportivo la Coruña in January but his form has dipped badly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 He's right, there's no way you can expect Liverpool to compete with Man Utd and Chelsea's spending. Man U pay an average of 25m for their top strikers (Van Nistelrooy, Rooney) an average of 9m for their second strikers (Smith, Saha) and 18m for their defensive midfielders (Hargreaves, Carrick) Not to mention 30m for a centre back. Liverpools highest ever fee is 12 million for Alonso. £14m for Cisse! Benny won't make it. If they don't challenge for the PL next season he'll be out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 £14m for Cisse! Gerard Houllier Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 £14m for Cisse! Gerard Houllier 'Liverpools highest ever fee' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 £14m for Cisse! Gerard Houllier 'Liverpools highest ever fee' Jermaine Pennant Winger who can't cross. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Benny won't make it. If they don't challenge for the PL next season he'll be out. More instability? A new manager (not guaranteed of Benitez's quality), whole new lots of players = more money wasted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjmc Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 we seem to be really interested in what liverpool are doing lately unless it means we get some of their players I really dont care how many millions they throw at the situation to try break into the top 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Benny won't make it. If they don't challenge for the PL next season he'll be out. More instability? A new manager (not guaranteed of Benitez's quality), whole new lots of players = more money wasted. To do is to succeed dear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 we seem to be really interested in what liverpool are doing lately unless it means we get some of their players I really dont care how many millions they throw at the situation to try break into the top 2 This is a football forum mate. If you don't care (i fully respect your decision) you could ignore the thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjmc Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 This is a football forum mate. If you don't care (i fully respect your decision) you could ignore the thread. hold on im not saying i dont want to stick my two penneth worth in I always do mate.... all im saying is the tread popping up around liverpool is some ITK and saying he is having a clear out or what. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 To do is to succeed dear. Patience is a virtue (as long as you have the right manager) - Alex Ferguson, David Moyes, Arsene Wenger, Sam Allardyce (Bolton), Alan Curbishley (chalrton), Steve Coppell, Bobby Robson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 hold on im not saying i dont want to stick my two penneth worth in I always do mate.... all im saying is the tread popping up around liverpool is some ITK and saying he is having a clear out or what. There is no ITK in this thread (as yet), and to be fair I haven't seen any ITK Liverpool info in this forum yet. Of course unless you count the ITK Liverpool first hand knowledge, that every scouser is a thief, bin-dipper, murderer, deluded supporters etc. I just want to engage in decent normal football discussion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scouseman Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Liverpool fans, on the whole, adore Rafa and he'd have to do an awful lot wrong before they'd want rid. As long as the managers are moving us forward we tend to be patient, and Rafa is moving us forward. It's long been known by the fans that he hasn't always been able to have his first choice players and the ones mentioned in the first post are the ones he really tried to get. Alonso was 10 million and Rafas most expensive signing. I disagree with a couple of your assesments Delima. Momo Sissoko was brilliant last season, a great player and only injury has held him back this season. The signing of Mascherano (absolute class) has probably ended his career at Liverpool but he's only young and will develop in to a fantastic midfield destroyer once he improves his range and quality of passes. Pennant, had a bad start but since Christmas has put in some fantastic performances, even got MOM a few times. I think Pennant will still be here next season and used in rotation with one other. Bellamy is quite popular with the fans because of his attitude and speed, but, like Cisse, doesn't time his runs very well and invariably finds himself offside too often. I think he's done very well in some games but not enough to be kept on. He hasn't been a total failure though and the game against Barca was his best in a red shirt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 Why does he want good players?....He's proved he can get by with his tedious style and average players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 2 Champions League finals in 3 years. Why should he start throwing the dummy out the pram now if he cant have millions to spend straight away. Is he looking for excuses already for next season ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 Sissoko - Moderate success/failure?! He's been a brilliant signing ffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 Have they actually signed Mascherano? And for how much? I was under the impression that they're 'loaning' him from Kia Joorabchian. Anyone confirm or deny this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 Sissoko - Moderate success/failure?! He's been a brilliant signing ffs. Take him in a heartbeat, dirty little fuker, and cant control his tackles, but A+ for effort, a player who'd go down a storm at SJP. He's also come out and stated he's worried about his future, sell Parker and get Sissoko in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 Have they actually signed Mascherano? And for how much? I was under the impression that they're 'loaning' him from Kia Joorabchian. Anyone confirm or deny this? Cost them £1.5m to loan, then they must pay £18m at the end of the loan del. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 I have heard many a Liverpool fan saying he has been fantastic and that they arent the same team when he doesnt play. I would take him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 Why does he want good players?....He's proved he can get by with his tedious style and average players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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