Ickle Mickey or Obafindme. Who are we keeping?

[Parky]

So what do you want him to say on their DVD. "I've liked it here but if Man Utd do bid, bubbye".

 

Where did I say that? I've simply found quotes from Berbatov about him talking about his ambitions for next season at Spurs.

 

Owen on the other hand has a buy out clause in his contract, the fee surrounding it came out in the Times which is a paper that Owen writes a column in, coincidence?

 

He's since been asked to declare his loyalty to Newcastle next season by our chairman, he's so far refused.

 

There is a huge difference between the 2 situations.

 

I'd have to agree with Baggy here, Owen is a deceitful little wretch.

 

 

 

 

But I'd still rather keep him. Just his name on the teamsheet sends shivers down def spines.

[Optimistic Nut]

Has he had this second meeting with Allardyce yet? If not, it'd be very foolish to commit himself to anything just yet.

[Guest Sam]

Owen is simply a world class finsher. I cant see how some people are picking Oba ahead of him.

[Guest alex]

I expect Owen to full commit himself to the club once it becomes clear none of the top 4 want him. He's a far better player than Martins btw (and better than Martins ever will be imo).

[Optimistic Nut]

I expect Owen to full commit himself to the club once it becomes clear none of the top 4 want him. He's a far better player than Martins btw (and better than Martins ever will be imo).

 

This. And it's the same with every striker outside of the big 4 clubs, not just Owen. If one of those clubs met the clubs valuation, they'd be off like a shot.

[Guest alex]

I expect Owen to full commit himself to the club once it becomes clear none of the top 4 want him. He's a far better player than Martins btw (and better than Martins ever will be imo).

 

This. And it's the same with every striker outside of the big 4 clubs, not just Owen. If one of those clubs met the clubs valuation, they'd be off like a shot.

Aye, he's no different to any one else. And if Berbatov wants to stay at Spurs I reckon it'll only be for another year to aid his development.

[Nobby]

I see Owen as our Shearer, Viduka as our Ferdinand, and Martins as our Asprilla.

 

exactly 

[Guest alex]

I see Owen as our Shearer, Viduka as our Ferdinand, and Martins as our Asprilla.

 

exactly 

They're nowt like each other though.

[Optimistic Nut]

I'd say it's more like Owen as our Bellamy, Viduka as Shearer & Martins as Lua-Lua (with the same old Shola).

[tmonkey]

Owen is simply a world class finsher. I cant see how some people are picking Oba ahead of him.

 

Hes the much better forward obviously, but the reasons for picking Martins:

 

- Owen is a crock. Or was. Either way, his injury record is dreadful for the wages hes on. Relying on him to stay fit regularly is a massive gamble. Maybe Allardyce's methods could do something here, but we simply wont know.

 

- His contract. One year before he can buy it out for cheap? Two years before a Bosman? And hes reported to be on 110k per week, which is a massive amount for someone who has played something like 12 games in the past two years. Ask yourself, whats the likelihood of him playing another 20 games in the next two years? High? Moderate?

 

- His priority has always been England. (imo) Thats not a downside on its own, but with Owen it is, because when hes struggling for fitness and he forces a comeback just to play for England despite the risks, its us who pays the price.

 

- He didnt want to come to us in the first place, had his hand forced. Hes had two crocked seasons whilst being on a big wage, and now hes clearly instructed his agents, or has given them permission, to find something better. He clearly doesnt want to play for us. Combine that with his injury record, his wages, his main priority - is it worth holding on to him?

 

- Finally, Owen as a player. Great finisher, yes, but he can also go for games without doing anything at all. He brings very little to the team and often spends the entire game waiting for a through ball that you need a Zidane to play, and on top of this hes lost some pace which makes it even harder to use his movement effectively as some of the balls hes looking for he simply doesnt have the pace to make up the ground.  Hes also a problem tactically - can he play in a 4-3-3 that Allardyce has always favoured with Bolton?

 

Personally, I would rather keep Owen and sell Martins, as Martins is a flawed player who may or may not improve, and if he doesnt than hell merely be a frustrating mid table striker who blows hot and cold, whereas Owen is the finished article, a top striker who would be playing for a better team were it not for issues with injuries and wages.

 

However, to keep Owen, wed need to extend his contract (no chance as he already wants out), sort out his injury problems (possible but hes been dogged by them for his entire career), and nail his commitment to us in some way and having him being happy to play for us (eg captaincy, long term contract, performance related bonuses, etc). Thats asking for a lot imo, whilst at the same time, how likely is it that Martins will improve his game as he adapts further, gets better coaching under Allardyce, etc?

[Guest DarkSchneider]

If they are both willing to stay I'd keep them. Otherwise if Owen want's to go, I would sell him and try to get Tevez (Hungry little beast)

 

 

[Optimistic Nut]

Tevez is in the same boat as Owen. Happy where he is but if a big club comes in, he's off like a shot. Not a cat in hell's chance he'd move from West Ham to Newcastle.

[Guest Sam]

Owen is simply a world class finsher. I cant see how some people are picking Oba ahead of him.

 

Hes the much better forward obviously, but the reasons for picking Martins:

 

- Owen is a crock. Or was. Either way, his injury record is dreadful for the wages hes on. Relying on him to stay fit regularly is a massive gamble. Maybe Allardyce's methods could do something here, but we simply wont know.

 

- His contract. One year before he can buy it out for cheap? Two years before a Bosman? And hes reported to be on 110k per week, which is a massive amount for someone who has played something like 12 games in the past two years. Ask yourself, whats the likelihood of him playing another 20 games in the next two years? High? Moderate?

 

- His priority has always been England. (imo) Thats not a downside on its own, but with Owen it is, because when hes struggling for fitness and he forces a comeback just to play for England despite the risks, its us who pays the price.

 

- He didnt want to come to us in the first place, had his hand forced. Hes had two crocked seasons whilst being on a big wage, and now hes clearly instructed his agents, or has given them permission, to find something better. He clearly doesnt want to play for us. Combine that with his injury record, his wages, his main priority - is it worth holding on to him?

 

- Finally, Owen as a player. Great finisher, yes, but he can also go for games without doing anything at all. He brings very little to the team and often spends the entire game waiting for a through ball that you need a Zidane to play, and on top of this hes lost some pace which makes it even harder to use his movement effectively as some of the balls hes looking for he simply doesnt have the pace to make up the ground.  Hes also a problem tactically - can he play in a 4-3-3 that Allardyce has always favoured with Bolton?

 

Personally, I would rather keep Owen and sell Martins, as Martins is a flawed player who may or may not improve, and if he doesnt than hell merely be a frustrating mid table striker who blows hot and cold, whereas Owen is the finished article, a top striker who would be playing for a better team were it not for issues with injuries and wages.

 

However, to keep Owen, wed need to extend his contract (no chance as he already wants out), sort out his injury problems (possible but hes been dogged by them for his entire career), and nail his commitment to us in some way and having him being happy to play for us (eg captaincy, long term contract, performance related bonuses, etc). Thats asking for a lot imo, whilst at the same time, how likely is it that Martins will improve his game as he adapts further, gets better coaching under Allardyce, etc?

And Oba is different?

 

I dont see why we cant keep both. If this takeover goes ahead I cant see money ever being a problem, so aslong as we get a decent amount of participation from Owen next season, I wouldnt mind him going for free. Oba is clearly not going to leave any time soon. You can see in his interviews that he loves the club and the city.

[Baggio]

I expect Owen to full commit himself to the club once it becomes clear none of the top 4 want him. He's a far better player than Martins btw (and better than Martins ever will be imo).

 

This. And it's the same with every striker outside of the big 4 clubs, not just Owen. If one of those clubs met the clubs valuation, they'd be off like a shot.

Aye, he's no different to any one else. And if Berbatov wants to stay at Spurs I reckon it'll only be for another year to aid his development.

 

But he is different mate.

 

If Man Utd want Berbatov then Spurs could simply price him out of a move, or better still make sure they end up paying over the odds for him, look at Hargreaves at Munich last year, Man Utd wanted him and he wanted to go, it was up to Bayern in the end and they chose not to sell. There are countless other examples of players being blocked moves by their clubs.

 

Owen is different as he has a ridiculously low buy out clause in his contract meaning if a club did offer the reported £9 million we wouldn't have a say in the matter, Shepherd knows this so he's asked Owen to pledge his loyalty to the club, Owen's silence speaks volumes about his loyalty to the club.

 

 

[Optimistic Nut]

That was down to the chairman putting a clause in though. Let's rewind 10 years. Ferdinand is told he's going to Spurs by the board, Shearer is injured, Shepherd tries getting him to stay. Does this make him disloyal to Newcastle?

[Guest alex]

I suppose you're right Baggio but he's probably no different to anyone would be in his position. And Shepherd allowing the clause and then asking Owen to pledge his loyalty speaks volumes about him - i.e. being stupid enough to allow it then trying to cover his back.

[Baggio]

That was down to the chairman putting a clause in though. Let's rewind 10 years. Ferdinand is told he's going to Spurs by the board, Shearer is injured, Shepherd tries getting him to stay. Does this make him disloyal to Newcastle?

 

Of course not, but it's hardly a like for like situation is it.

[Optimistic Nut]

That was down to the chairman putting a clause in though. Let's rewind 10 years. Ferdinand is told he's going to Spurs by the board, Shearer is injured, Shepherd tries getting him to stay. Does this make him disloyal to Newcastle?

 

Of course not, but it's hardly a like for like situation is it.

 

Well if the chairman is stupid enough to put a £9m clause in his contract, he can't exactly turn around to Owen and tell him, "forget that, tell the fans you're staying, NOW!". Similarly with the Ferdinand thing. He can't be daft enough to agree to sell him one day, then the following day expect him to pledge himself to Newcastle!

[Baggio]

That was down to the chairman putting a clause in though. Let's rewind 10 years. Ferdinand is told he's going to Spurs by the board, Shearer is injured, Shepherd tries getting him to stay. Does this make him disloyal to Newcastle?

 

Of course not, but it's hardly a like for like situation is it.

 

Well if the chairman is stupid enough to put a £9m clause in his contract, he can't exactly turn around to Owen and tell him, "forget that, tell the fans you're staying, NOW!". Similarly with the Ferdinand thing. He can't be daft enough to agree to sell him one day, then the following day expect him to pledge himself to Newcastle!

 

I'm not saying Shepherd is blameless in all this, it was stupid of him to put that in his contract and I bet he knows that now, however that doesn't take away from the original point about his loyalty being in question.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

 

[Nobby]

I see Owen as our Shearer, Viduka as our Ferdinand, and Martins as our Asprilla.

 

exactly 

They're nowt like each other though.

 

they can be the same types of players

[Optimistic Nut]

That was down to the chairman putting a clause in though. Let's rewind 10 years. Ferdinand is told he's going to Spurs by the board, Shearer is injured, Shepherd tries getting him to stay. Does this make him disloyal to Newcastle?

 

Of course not, but it's hardly a like for like situation is it.

 

Well if the chairman is stupid enough to put a £9m clause in his contract, he can't exactly turn around to Owen and tell him, "forget that, tell the fans you're staying, NOW!". Similarly with the Ferdinand thing. He can't be daft enough to agree to sell him one day, then the following day expect him to pledge himself to Newcastle!

 

I'm not saying Shepherd is blameless in all this, it was stupid of him to put that in his contract and I bet he knows that now, however that doesn't take away from the original point about his loyalty being in question.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

 

Fair enough. I just don't see how Shepherd can one minute give him a release clause, then deny there was any clause, then not deny it, then tell Owen to tell us he's not leaving.

[Dragon55544]

Anyone just hear that "Just in" on SSN about Berbatov?

[Optimistic Nut]

Nope?

[Guest alex]

I see Owen as our Shearer, Viduka as our Ferdinand, and Martins as our Asprilla.

 

exactly 

They're nowt like each other though.

 

they can be the same types of players

Not sure what you mean by that.

 

Ferdinand was great in the air and pacy with a touch that let him down at times, Viduka is slower, less mobile and not as good in the air but has a better touch and is a better finisher imo.

 

Owen is small, pacy and relies on clever movement. His touch is good but playing with his back to goal isn't his strength and he prefers a big man alongside him. Shearer even when he had his pace was a totally different sort of player, more of a battering ram if you like who always used his strength to intimidate centre-halves and was very comfortable holding the ball up.

 

Asprilla was an enigmatic player who was very skillful, had a sublime touch and was able to play team-mates in. He was superb in one-on-ones with the 'keeper too. Martins is all about pace and power and link-up play isn't his game at all.

[tmonkey]

Tevez is in the same boat as Owen. Happy where he is but if a big club comes in, he's off like a shot. Not a cat in hell's chance he'd move from West Ham to Newcastle.

 

Difference is we're potentially a big club, and thats without a huge extrenal investment - weve had the resources and infrastructure to challenge the big boys, but weve failed in recent years due to poor decision making at board level and not having the setup in place to take advantage of our resources. Outsiders who know a bit about our club know this, and theyll probably see that these problems should be rectified with the appointment of Allardyce - add the possible takeover by a cash rich billionaire, and its hard not to see us as a step up from West Ham, who only have the latter.

 

Granted were not a true big club in respect of current success, but then by the same standards West Ham have hardly been successful, getting relegated recently and nearly being relegated again, whilst it was only a few years ago that we were title pretenders and playing in the CL. Hence, if noone is willing to match Tevez' valuation but we were, then what would stop him coming to us?