Howay The Zog

[Yorkie]

Aye, he was immense last year and his injury record is absolutely pristine.

[Shak]

Keep them both, they'll provide good competition.

 

The key difference is that now you feel it will be a fairer battle and the better man will play, whereas last season you always felt Duff was first choice when fit regardless.

 

I'm excited about them both tbh, because Duff at his best would be the type of winger that Allardyce would love, direct and pacey.

[Baggio]

N'Zogbia is just as much to blame for his form last season as Roeder.

 

N'Zogbia and Roeder were in proportion to a seven-year old kid and a single chav mother on the game. Aye, N'Zogbia had problems, but they all sparked from Roeder and there was no way Roeder would be able to sort him out.

 

All Roeder done was bought Duff, I agree that he wasn't needed but the way N'Zogbia chucked his toys out of the pram was ridiculous, he also had a chip on his shoulder about Boumsong and Feye being sold, this is football ffs, players get bought and sold all the time and there was no reason for him to act like he did.

 

As far as I'm concerned he had the chance to earn his place in the first team when Duff was injured but he strolled around the pitch half hearted looking like he couldn't give a fuck, his problem is he thinks he's better than he actually is which isn't a bad thing if you've got an attitude like Bellamy on the pitch and want to prove people wrong, unfortunately for Zog he preferred to go into a 12 month sulk instead.

 

 

[Yorkie]

I'm arguing against about four people here so i'm just gonna summarise my opinion and leave it at that.

 

N'Zogbia had attitude problems, and he should have handled himself better, i'm not disputing that. Roeder was the main point of his downfall, though. If the players have got a serious problem, either on the pitch or off it or both, it is up to the manager to get a grip and try and help the guy. Roeder fucked up big time. I think N'Zogbia has the potential to be one of the best wingers in the Premiership, providing he is taught right - he'd have been immense at Arsenal - and i was deeply saddened and angry as fuck to see him get wasted last season, when he was so good in 05/06.

 

I don't like Duff, we didn't need him and i couldn't give two shits if we got a fee for him and he buggered off. He was a total waste of space last season, clearly on the downfall, and he's not getting any younger so i can't imagine he'll peak back up to how he was - especially given his rotten injury record. I said Allardyce should be tough with him, because that's exactly what Roeder wasn't; and i feel that the laid-back favouritism from Roeder contributed to Duff's downfall. I never said that N'Zogbia shouldn't be given a good kick up the arse aswell.

 

Those are my honest opinions regarding the two players. Make of it what you will.

[NE5]

Made a right mess of posting this on the main site, this will go smoother I hope.

 

===================================

 

Howay The Zog

 

It’s been a crazy summer at Newcastle so far.

 

New manager, new owner, four summer signings already and more rumoured to be on the way. It’s been chaotic to say the least. Who’s coming in? How much do we have to spend? Will Owen stay? Will Martins stay? Who will be the new captain? There are a thousand new questions that have been thrown up by the events of the last month or so, all of which we are eager to find out the answer to. However, one of the most important questions that we entered the summer with, before all the changes, is still yet to have any light shed on it.

 

The question being, what does the future hold for Charles N’Zogbia at Newcastle United?

 

N’Zogbia officially became a Newcastle player in September of 2004 for a fee in the region of 250k, but only after an arduous legal battle with former club Le Harve. After making a few appearances in his first season, showing glimpses of quality without every really impressing to a huge extent, it would be the 2005-2006 season that would see why Bobby Robson had fought so hard to secure the services of the young Frenchman.

 

N’Zogbia was arguably our best player that season. He notched six goals, our 4th highest scorer that year, and led our assists rankings. His combination of pace, trickery, powerful left foot, great upper body strength for his age and composure beyond his years saw him quickly become a firm favourite amongst the fans, with his emergence being seen as a bright spot in an otherwise very gloomy season.

 

Last season proved to be significantly less fruitful for ‘The Zog’, as he found himself in competition with new arrival Damien Duff for the left wing position. Injury problems plagued him also, and his rare appearances last season produced some very languid performances. By the time the season ended, he had fallen completely out of favour with Roeder and those who took charge after Roeder’s departure, walking out on the team after being named as a substitute for the final game of the season at Watford.

 

All signs seemed to point to an inevitable exit during the summer.

 

So far, though, he has remained at St. James’ Park, and should he remain here throughout the summer then I believe retaining his services will ultimately prove just as crucial as any new signing we could possibly make.

 

The treatment the lad recieved from the previous regime was, quite frankly, a disgrace. At times he carried the team in the 2005-2006 season, and what was his reward? We go out and buy Damien Duff to take his place, while all the other players who had so badly underperformed the previous season got to keep their spots on the team. Some could argue that you need competition for places, but you don’t go about creating great competition for the left wing spot before you have at least one player capable of performing adequately in the other positions on the team, which we didn’t.

 

Roeder’s reasoning was that N’Zogbia was young and would need to be protected, a truly laughable and hypocritical arguement when you consider that James Milner, at a mere 5 months older than N’Zogbia, played more games for the team than anyone else last year.

 

Closer to the truth of the matter, I suspect, is that Shepherd and/or Roeder saw a chance to get a big name, Premiership winning player in Damien Duff for a relatively small fee, and pounced on it without giving any thought to whether he was actually what we needed or not. Once Duff was here, things were always looking bleak for N’Zogbia. Regardless of his form (which, it turned out, was completely wretched), Duff was always going to start when he was fit. He was one of Roeder’s two big signings and, as with any manager, was always going to get favourable treatment as a result.

 

Word is that N’Zogbia developed a poor attitude and distanced himself from his teammates last season, and it was plain for all to see that when he did get on the pitch his heart simply wasn’t in it.

 

While you could certainly argue that we should expect a better attitude from our players with the wages they are paid, I do think it is a tad unrealistic for us to expect N’Zogbia to have just put his head down and gotten on with it last year. He’s a youngster playing his trade in a foreign country, he’s been completely unfairly kicked out of the team for an underperforming “trophy signing”, his apparent father-figure in Boumsong had left the club, the team are going nowhere and are being horribly mis-managed at every level. Add to that the rumours that Arsenal, famed for developing young talent and with a number of French players and coaches there, are alleged to be looking at him. Can you really blame the lad for his attitude?

 

Personally, I’d be eager to leave as fast as possible as well.

 

Since Allardyce’s appointment, we’ve heard nothing that I can recall regarding N’Zogbia. This can only be good news in my opinion. My hope is that Allardyce has sat him down and told him he’ll get a completely clean slate and will have just as much opportunity of getting a first team spot as any.

 

It’s what a good manager would do, and this is why Glenn Roeder never did it. Good managers know when it’s worth accomodating a player despite some problem they might have off-field, due to what they bring during the game. Robson knew it with Bellamy. How easy would it have been for Ferguson to sell Cristiano Ronaldo last summer after the World Cup? Had it been a journeyman squad player you can bet Fergie would have shown him the door, but not Ronaldo. Special players should get special treatment, if you want to go anywhere that is. I believe that N’Zogbia can become a special player for us, if we can rekindle the spark he had two seasons ago.

 

If we get a fully focused, committed N’Zogbia back this season then I believe we have a player who can be one of the first names on our teamsheet for years to come, one who can shine at the very highest levels in football. He has everything you need to be a truly top modern winger. Bags of pace combined with a very powerful running style. He has a couple of tricks in his locker, can cross the ball with great bend and speed, and can crack a fair rocket of a shot with his left peg. He’s someone who I believe can also consistently produce goals from midfield, as his composure in front of goal is top class. His goal at Blackburn and goal at home to Portsmouth are prime examples of this , as he displayed composure far beyond his years on both.

 

For the first time in some years, I have complete faith in our manager once again, and I believe N’Zogbia will be here come the start of the season. So here’s to Sam, and here’s to The Zog.

 

Roll on August.

 

 

Agree with almost everything, apart from the comment that Shepherd and Roeder chose to sign Duff.

 

Roeder chose to sign Duff, not Shepherd. Why do people constantly make things up just to have a pop at Shepherd ? I just fail to see the need for this.

 

I also don't understand why people criticise the signing of Duff. Quite simply, its a long term signing. Plenty of people criticise the club for not "planning" etc then when they do they still criticise. Zoggy is young, Nobby is getting older, this is simply the signing of a quality player [based on his performances for Blackburn mainly] when he was available and there is nothing wrong with that at all.

 

IMO Zoggy has everything to be a big star player. I don't really have any doubt that ROEDER didn't manage him very well, but also consider that he was pretty certain to have a bit of a dip. His situation is similar to Milner, but not identical. Zoggy is a young lad playing in a different country, Milner is British and maybe even commutes from his home in Yorkshire, maybe not, but if not then he is only a short distance away from his family and friends. These things are massively important to player especially players of that age.

 

 

[Yorkie]

Good post, NE5 - well the last paragraph i mean. I still think Duff was a needless signing.

 

Hopefully people might ignore the Shepherd extract.

[Ronaldo]

Duff's got a f****** lot to do when he gets fit again. Well he should do, and i can imagine Allardyce would be of the same opinion. Roeder played him at the drop of a hat, regardless of whatever circumstances, cos his name was Damien Duff and he came from Chelsea. Hopefully Big Sam will be rough as f*** with him. He ought to be.

 

Still, not overly confident either way with Duff. Wish we could just flog him in all honesty.

 

say what you want about Daminen Duff, he's a two time premiership winner who was more than happy to cover at LB on more than one occassion

 

20 year old Charles N'zogbia (who when started last season was abysmal) refused to sit on the bench

 

we should get rid of Duff because of his attitude problem???

 

No, i think we should flog him because we don't need him, we never did, and i reckon he's on the downfall.

 

so you'd have total confidence in keeping N'zogbia as our main LW?

 

I'd rather Allardyce tried to sort N'Zogbia out, than try to sort Duff out.

 

we need two LW's

 

and we need one who's actually proved himself in the premiership, even James Beattie managed one good season

[Shak]

People always talk about how a player should always give 100% regardless of how happy he is as the club pay his wages, but in this day and age it's the responsibility of the club to keep it's players happy as well. They know that if they're not wanted here, they'll find someone else that's happy to have them.

 

It's obvious the last regime didn't do a good job making N'Zogbia feel wanted at all, and we could lose what was definitely our best prospect a year ago for a pittance.

[ohmelads]

I think Allardyce's man management skills are one of the biggest assets he'll bring to the club. It won't rub off on everyone, but he likes a challenge and I fancy one of Zoggy/Duff/Luque to come good next season.

 

As with every management change, some players improve while others fall by the wayside. I think he'll do his utmost to get Duff back in form and while he's out he'll be looking to players like Zoggy and Luque to rekindle their form of days gone by as well. It's something he's done with players at Bolton who everybody else had written off, so I fancy him to get it right with one or two of ours. As the Bolton fan on here said, he'll instill hunger into the players and they'll all know what's expected of them. Hell he even got Anelka playing on his own up front with something resembling hunger. When he was referring to Luque and players' personal lives affecting their performances, I suspect he was also talking about N'Zogbia who lost his father early last year and then suffered a major injury at the start of the new season.

[Yorkie]

I'd rather Allardyce tried to sort N'Zogbia out, than try to sort Duff out.

 

we need two LW's

 

and we need one who's actually proved himself in the premiership

 

Not if we're playing 4-3-3. And who cares if he's proved himself in the Premiership? He was abysmal last season and is on the downfall. And aye, he was shite last season, but N'Zogbia's proved he can play in the Premiership aswell.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

I'm arguing against about four people here so i'm just gonna summarise my opinion and leave it at that.

 

N'Zogbia had attitude problems, and he should have handled himself better, i'm not disputing that. Roeder was the main point of his downfall, though. If the players have got a serious problem, either on the pitch or off it or both, it is up to the manager to get a grip and try and help the guy. Roeder fucked up big time. I think N'Zogbia has the potential to be one of the best wingers in the Premiership, providing he is taught right - he'd have been immense at Arsenal - and i was deeply saddened and angry as fuck to see him get wasted last season, when he was so good in 05/06.

 

I don't like Duff, we didn't need him and i couldn't give two shits if we got a fee for him and he buggered off. He was a total waste of space last season, clearly on the downfall, and he's not getting any younger so i can't imagine he'll peak back up to how he was - especially given his rotten injury record. I said Allardyce should be tough with him, because that's exactly what Roeder wasn't; and i feel that the laid-back favouritism from Roeder contributed to Duff's downfall. I never said that N'Zogbia shouldn't be given a good kick up the arse aswell.

 

Those are my honest opinions regarding the two players. Make of it what you will.

 

I make of it that you think you know an awfull lot about the two players minds, and that this at best a simplistic interpretation of events

 

"laid-back favouritism from Roeder contributed to Duff's downfall" FFS

 

[Guest 22bnw]

Its like any job, the staff are required to do the job unless they are ill or pregnant or someone has died.

 

If N'Zogbia wasn't doing his job, he needs to sort it out himself...Edit: or ask for help.

[Yorkie]

I'm arguing against about four people here so i'm just gonna summarise my opinion and leave it at that.

 

N'Zogbia had attitude problems, and he should have handled himself better, i'm not disputing that. Roeder was the main point of his downfall, though. If the players have got a serious problem, either on the pitch or off it or both, it is up to the manager to get a grip and try and help the guy. Roeder fucked up big time. I think N'Zogbia has the potential to be one of the best wingers in the Premiership, providing he is taught right - he'd have been immense at Arsenal - and i was deeply saddened and angry as fuck to see him get wasted last season, when he was so good in 05/06.

 

I don't like Duff, we didn't need him and i couldn't give two shits if we got a fee for him and he buggered off. He was a total waste of space last season, clearly on the downfall, and he's not getting any younger so i can't imagine he'll peak back up to how he was - especially given his rotten injury record. I said Allardyce should be tough with him, because that's exactly what Roeder wasn't; and i feel that the laid-back favouritism from Roeder contributed to Duff's downfall. I never said that N'Zogbia shouldn't be given a good kick up the arse aswell.

 

Those are my honest opinions regarding the two players. Make of it what you will.

 

I make of it that you think you know an awfull lot about the two players minds, and that this at best a simplistic interpretation of events

 

"laid-back favouritism from Roeder contributed to Duff's downfall" FFS

 

 

I said i was summarising, which is why it was brief. Seeing as you picked out that point, i'll branch off and go into more depth, just for your sake.

 

Roeder favoured Duff, there is absolutely no question about that. It was his big (pointless) signing, and as a weak manager he felt as though he had to play him, not having the balls to drop him, regardless of whether it was for the good of the team or not. This clearly rubbed off on Duff, because he knew that whenever he came back from injury, he'd just cruise straight back into the starting line-up, without even having to sweet talk Roeder. Psychologically speaking, the player is obvioulsy enjoying the easy ride, and it is detrimental to his performance. He didn't have to work for his place.

 

That's why Roeder's favouritism contributed to poor performances. Same could be said for a few other players aswell. Dyer in-particular, who started off well, but then came cemented as an automatic starter and his performances decreased significantly come the end of the season.

 

Vic, instead of saying 'FFS', can't you atleast develop a decent argument?

[Guest 22bnw]

He might have been pregnant of course, he wouldn't exactly admit it would he?

[Shak]

No reason whatsoever not to keep Duff tbh, can play in a few positions and in good form is a useful player.

 

Solid professional as well and not one who's gonna sulk if he's not making the first team based on merit.

 

NE5, agree with what you say except for the timing of the Duff signing. Like I say, I'm happy for Duff to be here now, but at the time that money could have been spent elsewhere, namely the defence. I'd expect he was Roeder's signing though, to be fair.

[Guest 22bnw]

Duff would have been a good signing, had he been one of about 6 others (consisting of mainly defenders) last season.

 

Roeder was simply rubbish in the transfer market.

[Ronaldo]

I'd rather Allardyce tried to sort N'Zogbia out, than try to sort Duff out.

 

we need two LW's

 

and we need one who's actually proved himself in the premiership

 

Not if we're playing 4-3-3. And who cares if he's proved himself in the Premiership? He was abysmal last season and is on the downfall. And aye, he was s**** last season, but N'Zogbia's proved he can play in the Premiership aswell.

 

it's nowt personal, i'd love to argue with four people

 

lets be honest he hasn't proved himself in the premiership

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

I'm arguing against about four people here so i'm just gonna summarise my opinion and leave it at that.

 

N'Zogbia had attitude problems, and he should have handled himself better, i'm not disputing that. Roeder was the main point of his downfall, though. If the players have got a serious problem, either on the pitch or off it or both, it is up to the manager to get a grip and try and help the guy. Roeder fucked up big time. I think N'Zogbia has the potential to be one of the best wingers in the Premiership, providing he is taught right - he'd have been immense at Arsenal - and i was deeply saddened and angry as fuck to see him get wasted last season, when he was so good in 05/06.

 

I don't like Duff, we didn't need him and i couldn't give two shits if we got a fee for him and he buggered off. He was a total waste of space last season, clearly on the downfall, and he's not getting any younger so i can't imagine he'll peak back up to how he was - especially given his rotten injury record. I said Allardyce should be tough with him, because that's exactly what Roeder wasn't; and i feel that the laid-back favouritism from Roeder contributed to Duff's downfall. I never said that N'Zogbia shouldn't be given a good kick up the arse aswell.

 

Those are my honest opinions regarding the two players. Make of it what you will.

 

I make of it that you think you know an awfull lot about the two players minds, and that this at best a simplistic interpretation of events

 

"laid-back favouritism from Roeder contributed to Duff's downfall" FFS

 

 

I said i was summarising, which is why it was brief. Seeing as you picked out that point, i'll branch off and go into more depth, just for your sake.

 

Roeder favoured Duff, there is absolutely no question about that. It was his big (pointless) signing, and as a weak manager he felt as though he had to play him, not having the balls to drop him, regardless of whether it was for the good of the team or not. This clearly rubbed off on Duff, because he knew that whenever he came back from injury, he'd just cruise straight back into the starting line-up, without even having to sweet talk Roeder. Psychologically speaking, the player is obvioulsy enjoying the easy ride, and it is detrimental to his performance. He didn't have to work for his place.

 

That's why Roeder's favouritism contributed to poor performances. Same could be said for a few other players aswell. Dyer in-particular, who started off well, but then came cemented as an automatic starter and his performances decreased significantly come the end of the season.

 

Vic, instead of saying 'FFS', can't you atleast develop a decent argument?

 

this is unmitigated absolute bullshit

 

you think players have to sweet talk the manager for a starting place? you think Duff was enjoying the easy ride last season? do you think players are fucking stupid FFS? do you think they don't read newspapers?

 

do you laughingly presume to know what circumstances led to Roeder picking Duff over Zogbia? You knew exactly what mental state Zog was every weekend yeah? bollocks did you.

 

total shite tbh

 

[Syrette]

Roeder was simply rubbish in the transfer market.

 

Indeed. Big Sam is like a breath of fresh air compared to him.

[Yorkie]

I'd rather Allardyce tried to sort N'Zogbia out, than try to sort Duff out.

 

we need two LW's

 

and we need one who's actually proved himself in the premiership

 

Not if we're playing 4-3-3. And who cares if he's proved himself in the Premiership? He was abysmal last season and is on the downfall. And aye, he was s**** last season, but N'Zogbia's proved he can play in the Premiership aswell.

 

it's nowt personal, i'd love to argue with four people

 

lets be honest he hasn't proved himself in the premiership

 

I enjoy a good debate (wonder who'll be first to 'FYP' me), but i don't have a hope in hellers against four people who disagree with me. I'm just not intelligent enough.

 

Proved himself isn't the term, but N'Zogbia's shown that he's definitely up to it when it comes to playing in the Premiership, as he was good in 04/05 and very good in 05/06. 'Proved himself' is probably one notch higher in the scale, but he's up to it. No question for me. Just needs some guidance.

[Yorkie]

this is unmitigated absolute bullshit

 

you think players have to sweet talk the manager for a starting place? you think Duff was enjoying the easy ride last season? do you think players are fucking stupid FFS? do you think they don't read newspapers?

 

do you laughingly presume to know what circumstances led to Roeder picking Duff over Zogbia? You knew exactly what mental state Zog was every weekend yeah? bollocks did you.

 

total shite tbh

 

 

How was Duff ever going to get any better when Roeder threw him straight back in the team, without any second thought?

 

Calm down, btw.

[Willow]

I'd rather Allardyce tried to sort N'Zogbia out, than try to sort Duff out.

 

we need two LW's

 

and we need one who's actually proved himself in the premiership

 

Not if we're playing 4-3-3. And who cares if he's proved himself in the Premiership? He was abysmal last season and is on the downfall. And aye, he was s**** last season, but N'Zogbia's proved he can play in the Premiership aswell.

 

it's nowt personal, i'd love to argue with four people

 

lets be honest he hasn't proved himself in the premiership

 

I enjoy a good debate (wonder who'll be first to 'FYP' me), but i don't have a hope in hellers against four people who disagree with me. I'm just not intelligent enough.

 

Proved himself isn't the term, but N'Zogbia's shown that he's definitely up to it when it comes to playing in the Premiership, as he was good in 04/05 and very good in 05/06. 'Proved himself' is probably one notch higher in the scale, but he's up to it. No question for me. Just needs some guidance.

 

And he'll get that with Sam. With a more stable background the club has to stand on at the moment, I think we'll see a lot more common sense when it comes to handling players. Not just by Sam but all of the new (and hopefully old) staff hopefully.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

this is unmitigated absolute bullshit

 

you think players have to sweet talk the manager for a starting place? you think Duff was enjoying the easy ride last season? do you think players are fucking stupid FFS? do you think they don't read newspapers?

 

do you laughingly presume to know what circumstances led to Roeder picking Duff over Zogbia? You knew exactly what mental state Zog was every weekend yeah? bollocks did you.

 

total shite tbh

 

 

How was Duff ever going to get any better when Roeder threw him straight back in the team, without any second thought?

 

Calm down, btw.

 

I've no idea what you're even getting at here, is duff some kind of untried youth player?

[Yorkie]

this is unmitigated absolute bullshit

 

you think players have to sweet talk the manager for a starting place? you think Duff was enjoying the easy ride last season? do you think players are fucking stupid FFS? do you think they don't read newspapers?

 

do you laughingly presume to know what circumstances led to Roeder picking Duff over Zogbia? You knew exactly what mental state Zog was every weekend yeah? bollocks did you.

 

total shite tbh

 

 

How was Duff ever going to get any better when Roeder threw him straight back in the team, without any second thought?

 

Calm down, btw.

 

I've no idea what you're even getting at here, is duff some kind of untried youth player?

 

Nope, he was tried and tested and utterly shit. N'Zogbia wasn't the only other option, he could have played Milner there. Or Emre, or even Pattison or Luque. Fact is, he didn't try (for any prolonged period, anyway). Duff barely had to do owt to earn his place in our side, even if he was playing badly, except win two Premiership titles a couple years back. The initial point was that. There was no competition for left-wing in Roeder's eyes so Duff barely had to push himself.

 

Glad you've cooled yourself.

[Shak]

Yorkie, what's the problem with keeping Duff now though? I was very negative towards him last season due to the N'Zogbia situation, but with Big Sam in charge I feel we'll see a fairer battle.

 

What exactly has Duff done wrong in his time here, other than perform badly? Always worked hard and tried, even if he didn't look up to much. He was bad, yeah, but so was everyone last year. Duff's proven in the Premiership and, like all of our players, I'm hoping the better management will bring better performances.