Argentina - The New Brazil

[Shak]

Fucking cert to play useless and lose tonight after I've written this, but sure you'll have that. 

 

 

================================

 

The New Brazil

 

For as long as I can remember, Brazil have been held as the gold standard in professional football. With a swash-buckling style and a seemingly endless supply of genuinely world class players, they have at times simply brushed the opposition aside on the grandest stage of them all, The World Cup.

 

They are what nations have aspired to be on the football pitch, playing with grace and beauty as they overwhelm their inevitably less talented opponents. With players such as Kaka and Ronaldinho still in their peak years, and exciting new stars like Robinho coming to prominence all the time, it would seem perhaps a tad strange to suggest that now is the time for a new super-power to emerge and be the envy of footballing nations worldwide.

 

But it is a claim I make, nonetheless.

 

Step forward, Argentina.

 

While it would be easy to spend time extolling the virtues of players like Messi, Tevez, Riquelme and Mascherano, to name but a few, it is not simply the great players they have at their disposal now that makes them so fearsome.

 

Football has changed the last 10 years or so. There is more emphasis now than ever on fitness and tactics in the game. Gone, despite the impressions given to us at St. James’ Park the last few years, are the days of putting 11 square pegs in 11 square holes and saying “Go out and play football.” In its place we’ve been introduced to severe attention to detail and the need for a strong work ethic in teams.

 

This is where the Argentinians will overtake the Brazilians.

 

Anyone who, like me, has been lucky enough to have a severe dose of the flu over the last couple of weeks will have seen some of the football Argentina have played in this year’s Copa America. The passing and movement has been phenomenal, players working and moving as a team as opposed to what we’ve been served by their Brazilian counterparts, which seems like little more than directionless ball retention while they wait for one of their impact players to do something special.

 

You could argue that the Brazilians are not at full strength, but one need only look at last year’s World Cup for proof that this is as much a result of mentality and tactics as it is what particular players are on the pitch. While Brazil’s much lauded all-stars stumbled through the World Cup, Ronaldinho proving totally ineffective throughout due to not being able to influence the game in dangerous positions, before eventually going out with a whimper, Argentina produced by far the best football the tournament saw.

 

Cambiasso’s goal against Serbia and Montenegro in the group stages is one of the greatest goals ever scored, and for me is the perfect representation of what modern day football should be all about. Players constantly moving, showing for the ball in midfield. Patient build up, one-touch football that gradually drags the opposition out of position and allows runners from midfield to exploit the space.

 

In defence, they also possess a toughness not common in their Brazilian counterparts, which stops teams from having any chance of bullying them off the pitch. Once they’ve matched their opponents physically, their talents on the ball will inevitably start to show and win them the game.

 

You could very easily ask the question ‘If they were so good, how did they get knocked out by Germany?’

 

Anyone who saw that particular match, however, will know that Germany only progressed due to a truly baffling display by the former Argentina manager who, with his team 1-0 up and looking good value to go on and put the game to bed, bizarrely proceeded to substitute Riquelme and replace him with a holding midfield player. With Argentina’s main man out of the picture, the game evened up a bit. With ten minutes to go Pekerman, the Argentinian coach, made his last change, replacing Crespo with Cruz, a like for like swap.

 

Inevitably, Germany got a lucky break and scored the goal to send it to extra time and then penalties. Not only were Argentina without Riquelme for the crucial extra-time period, but they had also used up all their subs and couldn’t bring on Lionel Messi, who had been explosive throughout the tournament.

 

From 1-0 up and coasting to out on penalties, I firmly believe that it was only such a managerial catastrophe that could have prevented them from winning that World Cup. It’s a lesson that I don’t expect will soon be forgotten, and with players like Messi and Tevez set to provide the spark for years to come, I would expect Argentina’s wait for a World Cup trophy won’t be too much longer.

 

So if you fancy pulling a sickie tomorrow then I would thoroughly recommend watching Argentina vs Mexico tonight. For not only will you be watching what should be a tremendous semi final between two fierce rivals.

 

You’ll be watching football as it should be played, the Argentinian way.

[SUPERTOON]

Agreed 100 Per Cent

[Guest Dr. Pongle]

Watched the other night against Peru. Riquelme was fucking awesome pulling the strings in midfield. Out-of-favour at Villareal, I reckon he's definitely worth a punt ahead of Deco, regardless of the baggage you get with him.

 

Argentina are a joy to watch, gutted that Crespo is out for the rest of the tournament, mind.

[Shak]

Watched the other night against Peru. Riquelme was f****** awesome pulling the strings in midfield. Out-of-favour at Villareal, I reckon he's definitely worth a punt ahead of Deco, regardless of the baggage you get with him.

 

Argentina are a joy to watch, gutted that Crespo is out for the rest of the tournament, mind.

 

Would take Riquelme ahead of Deco, agreed.

 

Watching last night, I think we might also be better served going for Diego instead of Deco. Very similiar playing style, but with his best years ahead of him.

[Guest Bellers]

To be fair during the world cup match against Germany, Germany matched them blow for blow, Argentina dominated in spells but the Germans had their moments as well. There's no denying the substitutions had a detrimental impact on the Argentinians game, but I'm not sure under with the managerial regime they had in place and with the baffling exclusion of a couple of key players from the squad Argentina would not of won the world cup even if they had of squeezed passed Germany.

 

During the world cup the Germans played the tidiest most consistent football,  if you exclude the Argentinians dismantling of the Serbs they were very much hit and miss, the required a fair bit of luck to get past the Mexicans.

 

However, despite having played anyone of great quality in this year's Copa America they are beginning to look the real deal, by the time world cup 2010 opens we might be looking at vastly superior side to the that of Brazil and for that matter anybody else in world football.

[Guest brewer]

Ze Roberto scored a goal against Ghana in the World Cup that was one pass more than Cambiasso's.

 

Not many people know that.

[Shak]

Ze Roberto scored a goal against Ghana in the World Cup that was one pass more than Cambiasso's.

 

Not many people know that.

 

It's not so much the number of passes that made the Cambiasso goal special, it was the fact that they built it up with such brilliant teamwork.

 

Ze Roberto's goal was a prime example of what I talk about with Brazil, knocking the ball about without really going anywhere then someone plays one quality ball and they're in.

[Guest Dr. Pongle]

Brazil's style of play is more predictable - two holding midfielders with attacking full backs - the quality is there but Dunga is out of his depth. It's one thing to win a trophy with Brazil, but you need to win it with exciting football; the nation won't have it any other way. And frankly, the exciting football is not there and I don't see them winning the Copa America.

 

Argentina look so much more powerful and confident than Brazil.

[Tooj]

Brazil's style of play is more predictable - two holding midfielders with attacking full backs - the quality is there but Dunga is out of his depth. It's one thing to win a trophy with Brazil, but you need to win it with exciting football; the nation won't have it any other way. And frankly, the exciting football is not there and I don't see them winning the Copa America.

 

Argentina look so much more powerful and confident than Brazil.

 

I don't think they were complaining after USA '94 mind.

[Shak]

Reading 2J's posts with the Hans Gruber accent and tone is fucking great fun.

 

Post something long and thoughtful there 2J.

[Guest Dr. Pongle]

Brazil's style of play is more predictable - two holding midfielders with attacking full backs - the quality is there but Dunga is out of his depth. It's one thing to win a trophy with Brazil, but you need to win it with exciting football; the nation won't have it any other way. And frankly, the exciting football is not there and I don't see them winning the Copa America.

 

Argentina look so much more powerful and confident than Brazil.

 

I don't think they were complaining after USA '94 mind.

 

I forgot Dunga was national coach then.

[Shak]

Brazil's style of play is more predictable - two holding midfielders with attacking full backs - the quality is there but Dunga is out of his depth. It's one thing to win a trophy with Brazil, but you need to win it with exciting football; the nation won't have it any other way. And frankly, the exciting football is not there and I don't see them winning the Copa America.

 

Argentina look so much more powerful and confident than Brazil.

 

I don't think they were complaining after USA '94 mind.

 

I forgot Dunga was national coach then.

 

Was it not Perreira in 94, the guy who made a balls of last year's World Cup?

[Tooj]

Brazil's style of play is more predictable - two holding midfielders with attacking full backs - the quality is there but Dunga is out of his depth. It's one thing to win a trophy with Brazil, but you need to win it with exciting football; the nation won't have it any other way. And frankly, the exciting football is not there and I don't see them winning the Copa America.

 

Argentina look so much more powerful and confident than Brazil.

 

I don't think they were complaining after USA '94 mind.

 

I forgot Dunga was national coach then.

 

Was it not Perreira in 94, the guy who made a balls of last year's World Cup?

 

Perreira was indeed mate, my post was relferring to the fact that they won the World Cup that year playing pretty poor football but I'm sure no Brazilians were moaning due to the fact they came home with the big pize.

[Shak]

Brazil's style of play is more predictable - two holding midfielders with attacking full backs - the quality is there but Dunga is out of his depth. It's one thing to win a trophy with Brazil, but you need to win it with exciting football; the nation won't have it any other way. And frankly, the exciting football is not there and I don't see them winning the Copa America.

 

Argentina look so much more powerful and confident than Brazil.

 

I don't think they were complaining after USA '94 mind.

 

I forgot Dunga was national coach then.

 

Was it not Perreira in 94, the guy who made a balls of last year's World Cup?

 

Perreira was indeed mate, my post was relferring to the fact that they won the World Cup that year playing pretty poor football but I'm sure no Brazilians were moaning due to the fact they came home with the big pize.

 

Again, brilliant in a Gruber voice.

 

That's the fine line though.

 

Play great stuff and lose, you might get a second chance. Play dull stuff and lose, you're off.

 

Argentina the new Brazil anyway then Hans, I'm sure you'll agree? 

[Tooj]

Brazil's style of play is more predictable - two holding midfielders with attacking full backs - the quality is there but Dunga is out of his depth. It's one thing to win a trophy with Brazil, but you need to win it with exciting football; the nation won't have it any other way. And frankly, the exciting football is not there and I don't see them winning the Copa America.

 

Argentina look so much more powerful and confident than Brazil.

 

I don't think they were complaining after USA '94 mind.

 

I forgot Dunga was national coach then.

 

Was it not Perreira in 94, the guy who made a balls of last year's World Cup?

 

Perreira was indeed mate, my post was relferring to the fact that they won the World Cup that year playing pretty poor football but I'm sure no Brazilians were moaning due to the fact they came home with the big pize.

 

Again, brilliant in a Gruber voice.

 

That's the fine line though.

 

Play great stuff and lose, you might get a second chance. Play dull stuff and lose, you're off.

 

Argentina the new Brazil anyway then Hans, I'm sure you'll agree? 

 

All I can say is DIS IS DA AUTOBAHN.

[Thespence]

Dont the Argie's play with something classed as the "Double 5"

[Shak]

Now I have a machine gun...

 

HO

 

HO

 

HO

[Tooj]

Now I have a machine gun...

 

HO

 

HO

 

HO

 

Shak..... Hunt the little shit down and get those detonators.

[Guest Dr. Pongle]

Brazil's style of play is more predictable - two holding midfielders with attacking full backs - the quality is there but Dunga is out of his depth. It's one thing to win a trophy with Brazil, but you need to win it with exciting football; the nation won't have it any other way. And frankly, the exciting football is not there and I don't see them winning the Copa America.

 

Argentina look so much more powerful and confident than Brazil.

 

I don't think they were complaining after USA '94 mind.

 

I forgot Dunga was national coach then.

 

Was it not Perreira in 94, the guy who made a balls of last year's World Cup?

 

I was being sarcy!

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

Brazil's style of play is more predictable - two holding midfielders with attacking full backs - the quality is there but Dunga is out of his depth. It's one thing to win a trophy with Brazil, but you need to win it with exciting football; the nation won't have it any other way. And frankly, the exciting football is not there and I don't see them winning the Copa America.

 

Argentina look so much more powerful and confident than Brazil.

 

I don't think they were complaining after USA '94 mind.

 

I forgot Dunga was national coach then.

 

Was it not Perreira in 94, the guy who made a balls of last year's World Cup?

 

Perreira was indeed mate, my post was relferring to the fact that they won the World Cup that year playing pretty poor football but I'm sure no Brazilians were moaning due to the fact they came home with the big pize.

 

Again, brilliant in a Gruber voice.

 

That's the fine line though.

 

Play great stuff and lose, you might get a second chance. Play dull stuff and lose, you're off.

 

Argentina the new Brazil anyway then Hans, I'm sure you'll agree? 

 

I'm finding myself adding in my own full stops to get the full effect

[Beren]

Not to dismiss your whole argument in one specious fell swoop, buuut... I think Argentina are just better managed than Brazil at the moment. Even so, Brazil are still better. 

[Guest Knightrider]

Argentina have always had the potential to be the best, they actually have the flair of the Brazilians but they also have the better European traits too, combined they can be the ultimate team. Over the course of a competition though, they can't seem to keep it going. One day they will though, they have too much talent.

 

I don't know what's happened to Brazil myself, they still produce the players but when they all get together, they just don't seem to click anymore like they once did. I reckon most of them have been so de-coached out of their natural Brazilian rhythm which is unique to them and more dance like (some of their football takes moves from martial arts believe it or not, very interesting football culture the Brazilians, they've borrowed things from all kinds of art forms) and as a result struggle to get back into it as a collective unit. You can see Dunga is trying to change the approach too, to make them more European, so there is a clash of cultures going on in there I think, the Brazilian way vs the more European way, but without any balance joining the two together, hence an off looking team where only individually do they shine and even then that's becoming rarer (see Ronaldinho in Germany). They've never been right since 94 IMO were despite criticisms back in their own land about being too defensive, they played some great stuff at times. The crash of 98 haunts them still too, despite their win in 2002.

 

Mind, the sheer weight of expectations on them, individually (Ronaldinho 2006, Ronaldo 98) and as a team, not just in their own homeland, but throughout the world, is crazy. They could score 5 goals but if they don't play like Brazil, they've been poor.

 

BTW I've been reading tons of stuff about their football back home, where kids would once play with small balls on sand pitches in their bare feet, they are now being treated to luxury in comparison with a massive programme of spending on pitches and facilities being pushed through. That IMO is a bad move. Let them play with oranges in their bare feet on sand and wasteground, afterall that's what they owe their entire footballing legacy to.

 

In many ways Africa is the new Brazil. Kids learning to play the game using oranges on desolate wasteground.

 

One of the reasons behind our own falling ability standards is the destruction of street football here in the UK. You put kids on state of the art pitches, give them expert coaches and lots of aids like hurdles, speed ladders and such and all you'll be producing is identikit robots with no flair or rhythm.

 

Yet all kids want to do is play football, doesn't matter where, the worse the pitch, the better the challenge.

 

In 20 or so years, Brazil will produce fewer Brazilians, and they'll be overtaken as the footballing nation by Africa whose teams are a breath of fresh air... until they too become conditioned to expert coaches, state of the art facilities and technology.

[Guest Knightrider]

PS canny article by the way.

[Guest 22bnw]

I think the precision now needed in football tactics has definitely contributed to Brazil’s slump. The coaches of Brazil are so intent on the team playing beautiful football that it just won’t flow because they are forcing it. Ruud Gullit promised ’sexy football’ and look where that got us.

[Thespence]

they actually have the flair of the Brazilians but they also have the better European traits too, combined they can be the ultimate team.

 

They set themselves up to be more European than any other SA nation,  but there natural Latin temperament kicks in & lets them down. This rarely happens for the Brazilians because there teams form a strong bond through religion & music that  gives them a calmness & aura that the Argentinians never have.