Guest Knightrider Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Bored and nowt much to diuscuss Toon wise so thought I'd throw a few of these your way and open up a discussion about players with talent or who started their careers off with a bang only to fizzle. IMO as regards to the thread title... Stan Collymore - When Forest finished 3rd after coming up the season after we did, he was awesome up front for them scoring all types of goals. He was kind of like Shearer but with flair and pace, although he couldn't lead the line, head the ball as well or had as much strength and character as Shearer. Still, he was a mighty fine centre-forward in the making and while his move to Liverpool looked like a great one on paper, I think he'd have been better off at Man Utd or Newcastle who were both after him, us before we got Sir Les. Collymore had everything and could have went on to become an all-time Premiership great and won lots of caps for England. Robbie Fowler - One of the best finishers I've ever seen and such an intelligent player too. When he first broke onto the scene, at 18, he was in a class of his own in terms of finishing. One of the most exciting of new breed strikers to come through, injury and a less than 100% professional attitude prevented him from becoming the player he looked like he was going to be. Such a shame he'll forever be remembered outside of Liverpool as a bit of a clown and a crock, or a mercenary if you ask Leeds fans and Gerard Houllier. Kieth Gillespie - When we got him as part of the Cole deal, I hadn't heard of him but it wasn't long before he was exciting the Toon masses with his pace and wing play. He was very much an old-school winger. Fitness and attitude problems again prevented him from being a great. He had everything Giggs had except the guidance and strength of character. Perhaps Newcastle was a wrong move for him. I'm sure if he had of stayed at Man Utd he'd have made a greater impact on the game. On his day he was unplayable. Nick Barmby - Many Spurs fans will tell you it wasn't Klinsmann, Sheringham, Anderton or Dumitrescu who were the stars at the Lane during the early 90s, but Barmby. When he joined Spurs he was maturing into a fine player who could create and score goals, an exciting talent. He had good vision and a knack of getting into the box and scoring goals. Somehow he drifted and never quite made the impact he should have done. David Ginola - Think of Figo, think of Ronaldo, well Ginola was every bit as talented and anyone lucky enough to see him in his early Toon days may well remember him as the finest individual they've seen at St. James' Park for sheer skill and excitement. Not many have a bad word to say against him so I don't know what went wrong with him, perhaps he just lacked the drive and 100% commitment to the game others have. He was an amazing talent though and it's a shame we only got to see him at his best in such a short period, even at Spurs it was just the one real amazing season. All in all he gave two great years to the Premiership, the rest were neither here nor there, which is a shame given his talent wiped the floor with many in the league at the time. Duncan Ferguson - On his day he was a beast, who couldn't be defended against. Class on the ball and class in the air, never a prolific marksman but able to score goals. Injuries and attitude problems prevented him from being an Premiership great and maybe even a Newcastle great. When we signed him not many thought he and Shearer could play together but when they did they both scored goals and dominated defences. Nicolas Anelka - Every bit as talented as Henry, and much better in the air. Yet the man who replaced him at Arsenal will go down as one of the best. Bad attitude, bad guidance and advice and a lack of reaql hunger has prevented Anelka from being the great he could have been. What an awesome talent he was though, even today he's a class player on his day, but teh fact he's playing for Bolton in his prime tells you all you need to know. Gazza - No list is complete without Gazza. It tells you something that a man who played many times for England, was a teenage star for Newcastle, a star for Spurs, a star in Italy and then Scotland, i.e. someone who did damn well out of the game, makes this list. But that's only because he had the talent to be THE BEST. Any other player and what he's achieved would be considered either over achievement or a fine career but Gazza's was a wasted one. Andy Cole - A controversial choice given his goals and trophies won at Man Utd but this is a player who scored 41 times in just one season, who when he was 21 already ticked most boxes, yet he never really developed as a player I thought and often played within himself after his move from SJP. I maintain his move to Man Utd came too early. They knocked his panache and goalscoring instinct out of him far too ealy, in short he was forced to mature instead of maturity coming to him. He was never the same Andy Cole that banged in all those goals at SJP. I can't rmember him needing 5 chances to score one goal as he often did for Man Utd, here at the Toon. He'd have grabbed 4 from 5 chances. His goal record and trophy success should put him high among the all-time Premiership greats list but he'll forever be behind the likes of Zola who didn't score anywhere near the number of goals he did or achieve what he did in terms of success. He'll be remembered in the same way as Robbie Fowler - a goalscorer who scored goals and not a great player. He was ideal for international football too yet through no fault of his own, never really had a career at that level. At 28 or 29 when he should have been in his pomp, he was moving to Blackburn who had just came up. Michael Owen - Maybe another controversial choice given his goals and what he has already achieved, but remember back to when he was 18, that goal for England, his goals and style of play for Liverpool. People talk about Messi who is a fantastic footballer, and that's how Owen was viewe when he was at the same age. Since he hit 23-24 though his career has nosedived. A fantastic record for England doesn't tell the whole picture either, he'd have had even more if he never lost his pave and had stronger hamstrings because he could take players on for fun. These days he's more of a goal hanger. He'll be rememberd well but worldiwde he won't and like Gazza, he had that kind of talent to make a bigger impact. There are tons more but I'll save on a few names to allow others to have their say. BTW great doesn't necessarily mean world great as in Zidane et al, but home greats, England greats or for a few on the list like Gazza, a world great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Without ever having seen him live of course, reading about, watching clips and listening to those who have, perhaps Supermac could fall into that category and of course (through no fault of his own) Tony Green? As NE5 is reading BTW would be good to hear thoughts on players prior to SKY/KK etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Robin Friday would be my shout. (Never seen him play obviously, but some major names in the game say he was superb) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Ariel Ortega? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Ariel Ortega? Good shout, from what I saw of him, he looked a really good player. Aimar? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Michael Ricketts!!!!! Haha. One time got an England cap. where the hell is he now? Must be some lower league team... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 HTT again comparing players to Ronaldo who have no right to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 HTT again comparing players to Ronaldo who have no right to be. 2J again getting his nob stuck in Ronaldo's arse. I haven't compared anyone to Ronaldo, not the Brazilian Ronaldo anyway if that's who you thought my Ginola comment was aimed at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 HTT again comparing players to Ronaldo who have no right to be. 2J again getting his nob stuck in Ronaldo's arse. I haven't compared anyone to Ronaldo, not the Brazilian Ronaldo anyway if that's who you thought my Ginola comment was aimed at. Then you obviously should have put Cristiano down to avoid all of the confusion really. Anyone who has saw Commando and has heard the Girl George comment will no doubt know what I'm talking about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 yeah Aimar is another one. Laugh at this one if you want....but I think Thomas Brolin had some talent! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Recoba. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Shearer 9 Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 How the fuck can you compare Owen to Messi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Shearer should have went down as a World great but due to that injury he received and playing for us will never be looked upon how he should of been. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 HTT again comparing players to Ronaldo who have no right to be. 2J again getting his nob stuck in Ronaldo's arse. I haven't compared anyone to Ronaldo, not the Brazilian Ronaldo anyway if that's who you thought my Ginola comment was aimed at. Then you obviously should have put Cristiano down to avoid all of the confusion really. Anyone who has saw Commando and has heard the Girl George comment will no doubt know what I'm talking about. I thought Ginola being a winger and mentioning another in Figo along with Ronaldo might have been a clue, obviously not BTW be interested to here your own thoughts on those who you think could have or should have been great/better. I'll throw in another two names - Kinkladze and Juninho whose move to Atletico came too soon, not to mention that broken leg. The Prem suited his game and had he hung around for a while at Boro, I'm sure someone like Man Utd would have went in for him where he'd have been quite a prospect. As for Kinkladze, that goal he once scored... quality. He had the talent. What about Le Tissier? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Shearer should have went down as a World great but due to that injury he achieved and playing for us will never be looked upon how he should of been. True. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Shearer should have went down as a World great but due to that injury he achieved and playing for us will never be looked upon how he should of been. Good shout and I agree. Despite his injury though, I think he'd have achieved that status if he had of moved to Man Utd/Barcelona or we built on the KK success and played CL footy regularly, i.e. actually competed for and won things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Gaizka Mendieta. end of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Jonathan Woodgate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Kluivert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Tino Asprilla -- prodigious talent, zero discipline or mental control. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 How the fuck can you compare Owen to Messi In terms of hype perhaps and speculation around his talent? Never compared their ability, different players for a start. Owen was an exciting prospect when he was 18, not just at home but abroad due to his goal at the WC and the expansion of the Premiership into more foreign homes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 HTT again comparing players to Ronaldo who have no right to be. 2J again getting his nob stuck in Ronaldo's arse. I haven't compared anyone to Ronaldo, not the Brazilian Ronaldo anyway if that's who you thought my Ginola comment was aimed at. Then you obviously should have put Cristiano down to avoid all of the confusion really. Anyone who has saw Commando and has heard the Girl George comment will no doubt know what I'm talking about. Commando as in the Arnie film? If so, refresh my memory. If not, whatcha on about? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Kluivert Despite what he has won, I'd have to agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 De La Pena. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 HTT again comparing players to Ronaldo who have no right to be. 2J again getting his nob stuck in Ronaldo's arse. I haven't compared anyone to Ronaldo, not the Brazilian Ronaldo anyway if that's who you thought my Ginola comment was aimed at. Then you obviously should have put Cristiano down to avoid all of the confusion really. Anyone who has saw Commando and has heard the Girl George comment will no doubt know what I'm talking about. Commando as in the Arnie film? If so, refresh my memory. If not, whatcha on about? *Boy George music is on.* John Matrix and I quote "They should have called him Girl George, it would have cut down all the confusion." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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