Greg Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Back on topic; Jose Enrique Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Excuse me if I've missed something here (which is a very real possibility, I willingly concede) but has Enrique/any source of substance actually prompted Pardew to come out and make these statements? If not, what happened to keeping certain things in-house? He was asked by a journalist about the Liverpool interest in him today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Back on topic; Jose Enrique Best LB in a toon shirt I've seen, surpasses Bez and Bernard now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. We're hardly Ashley's cash cow FFS, he hasn't made any money out of us and stands very little chance of ever doing so. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. He'd still possess the value of the club though in absence of those players (a value which will have increased in the mean time). Furthermore, with ticket income remaining strong and guaranteed, if people take him up on 3+ year deals, he'll also have a relatively cheap wage bill. With television money having leaped up recently also, of course. Do we have any genuine reason to believe he is going to personally pocket the £35M from the sale of Andy Carroll and all transfer income from future player sales? Ticket income may be strong but not guaranteed(opt out clause at the end of each season), the value of the club remains but so would the debt that the club has. Value of club includes any assets the club has (including players) so selling them would decrease value of the club. No, because the club now has the value of the player in cash form. Hypothetically, if someone bought the club from him tomorrow, they'd also effectively be buying Andy Carroll's value (either in terms of an available balance, or more likely reduced debts). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Back on topic; Jose Enrique Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. We're hardly Ashley's cash cow FFS, he hasn't made any money out of us and stands very little chance of ever doing so. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. Well he saved a good £55 million on wages last season alone. Even with the players we've signed since, our wage bill can only have gone up £15 million a year. I'd say compared to this time 20 months ago, our wage bill has decreased by at least £40 million a year. Neesy, I don't think Ashley is trying to get us relegated this season. 2008/09 however ... £55M, hahahaha. Where you getting those figures from? NUST??? No chance that owen, martins, viduka, beye, duff, bassong, xisco were on £55M between them. January 2009 - January 2010 (Being modest, I think) Given - £60k N'somnia - £30k Owen - £105k a week Bassong - £30k Viduka - £65k Martins - £75k Cacapa - £30k Beye - £30k Duff - £70k Gonzalez - £10k (being very modest) Geremi - £40k Comes to around £50 million a year. Given - £3m Insomia - £1.5m Owen - £5m Bassong - 500k (no chance bassong was on 30k) Viduka - £3.5M Martins - £3.5M Cacapa - £1.5M Beye - 1.75M Duff - £3M Gonzalez - 500k Geremi - £2.5M Grand Total Of: Around £25M a year. You need to back to school mate. To get £50 million I added the player sales to the saving in wages. Go back to school ..? Jeeze. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. We're hardly Ashley's cash cow FFS, he hasn't made any money out of us and stands very little chance of ever doing so. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. He'd still possess the value of the club though in absence of those players (a value which will have increased in the mean time). Furthermore, with ticket income remaining strong and guaranteed, if people take him up on 3+ year deals, he'll also have a relatively cheap wage bill. With television money having leaped up recently also, of course. Do we have any genuine reason to believe he is going to personally pocket the £35M from the sale of Andy Carroll and all transfer income from future player sales? Ticket income may be strong but not guaranteed(opt out clause at the end of each season), the value of the club remains but so would the debt that the club has. Value of club includes any assets the club has (including players) so selling them would decrease value of the club. No, because the club now has the value of the player in cash form. Hypothetically, if someone bought the club from him tomorrow, they'd also effectively be buying Andy Carroll's value (either in terms of an available balance, or more likely reduced debts). Yes, but the value of Assets at the club in terms of playing squad has fallen. If that £35M is spunked then the value of was spent and then wasted will have gone from the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Excuse me if I've missed something here (which is a very real possibility, I willingly concede) but has Enrique/any source of substance actually prompted Pardew to come out and make these statements? If not, what happened to keeping certain things in-house? He was asked by a journalist about the Liverpool interest in him today. And? What did he say? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 The only way this club will be an asset to Ashley is when it's successful again i.e. getting back into Europe and competing in the top 7. Wages should be 50% max of turnover. That is when the club will be self sustainable. Basically speaking, precisely. And that hasn't go much to do with league success. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I'm operating on a time lag... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 It doesn't really matter to the balance sheet if we own Andy Carroll as an asset or the £35m in cash. Both have equal value in assessing the financial worth of the club. Attractiveness to a buyer is another question mind. Selling him was probably better than keeping him in the long run, as his value is more likely to decline than increase from such a high valuation. Obviously we'll have to address this question again if we spend the £35m, then the issue will be the value of the assets that are acquired with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. We're hardly Ashley's cash cow FFS, he hasn't made any money out of us and stands very little chance of ever doing so. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. He'd still possess the value of the club though in absence of those players (a value which will have increased in the mean time). Furthermore, with ticket income remaining strong and guaranteed, if people take him up on 3+ year deals, he'll also have a relatively cheap wage bill. With television money having leaped up recently also, of course. Do we have any genuine reason to believe he is going to personally pocket the £35M from the sale of Andy Carroll and all transfer income from future player sales? Ticket income may be strong but not guaranteed(opt out clause at the end of each season), the value of the club remains but so would the debt that the club has. Value of club includes any assets the club has (including players) so selling them would decrease value of the club. No, because the club now has the value of the player in cash form. Hypothetically, if someone bought the club from him tomorrow, they'd also effectively be buying Andy Carroll's value (either in terms of an available balance, or more likely reduced debts). Yes, but the value of Assets at the club in terms of playing squad has fallen. If that £35M is spunked then the value of was spent and then wasted will have gone from the club. Indeed, or it might be well invested or not invested at all. And the team might do better or worse without him. So selling Carroll doesn't necessarily do anything to the club's value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBG Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 If not, what happened to keeping certain things in-house? Hughton left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. We're hardly Ashley's cash cow FFS, he hasn't made any money out of us and stands very little chance of ever doing so. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. Well he saved a good £55 million on wages last season alone. Even with the players we've signed since, our wage bill can only have gone up £15 million a year. I'd say compared to this time 20 months ago, our wage bill has decreased by at least £40 million a year. Neesy, I don't think Ashley is trying to get us relegated this season. 2008/09 however ... £55M, hahahaha. Where you getting those figures from? NUST??? No chance that owen, martins, viduka, beye, duff, bassong, xisco were on £55M between them. January 2009 - January 2010 (Being modest, I think) Given - £60k N'somnia - £30k Owen - £105k a week Bassong - £30k Viduka - £65k Martins - £75k Cacapa - £30k Beye - £30k Duff - £70k Gonzalez - £10k (being very modest) Geremi - £40k Comes to around £50 million a year. Given - £3m Insomia - £1.5m Owen - £5m Bassong - 500k (no chance bassong was on 30k) Viduka - £3.5M Martins - £3.5M Cacapa - £1.5M Beye - 1.75M Duff - £3M Gonzalez - 500k Geremi - £2.5M Grand Total Of: Around £25M a year. You need to back to school mate. To get £50 million I added the player sales to the saving in wages. I can't believe I've just witnessed Neesy schooling someone on N-O this is Hall of Fame worthy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 The only way this club will be an asset to Ashley is when it's successful again i.e. getting back into Europe and competing in the top 7. Wages should be 50% max of turnover. That is when the club will be self sustainable. Basically speaking, precisely. And that hasn't go much to do with league success. Most clubs try to get to a 50% turnover on wages. That is when the club will be able to spend any money without any support of Ashley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Dave, even without Ashley, given the 'big 4' and Man City, where do you realistically expect us? I think unless we're taken over a la City then 6th or 7th is the best everyone could realistically achieve. That's fuck all to do with the Ashley effect, that would apply whether I supported Villa, Everton or even Sunderland. This season might be one season too soon but even under Ashley I reckon we could realistically push that closer next season. My expectations at present are the same as yours. I never said anything about expectations though, the point I was making was about the increasing acceptance of our best players leaving, as though we're a nothing club like Wigan. Yeah, it's not looking good. Heartbreaking that realistically the best we can hope for in the next few years is 6th or 7th place. The only chance we've got of changing the status quo is if the financial fair play rules fuck up City, Chelsea and Liverpool, and with us having the third biggest stadium in the league, we'll have a massive edge in terms of ability to generate revenue. We really, really need to keep the likes of Tiote and Enrique to do that, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. We're hardly Ashley's cash cow FFS, he hasn't made any money out of us and stands very little chance of ever doing so. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. He'd still possess the value of the club though in absence of those players (a value which will have increased in the mean time). Furthermore, with ticket income remaining strong and guaranteed, if people take him up on 3+ year deals, he'll also have a relatively cheap wage bill. With television money having leaped up recently also, of course. Do we have any genuine reason to believe he is going to personally pocket the £35M from the sale of Andy Carroll and all transfer income from future player sales? Ticket income may be strong but not guaranteed(opt out clause at the end of each season), the value of the club remains but so would the debt that the club has. Value of club includes any assets the club has (including players) so selling them would decrease value of the club. No, because the club now has the value of the player in cash form. Hypothetically, if someone bought the club from him tomorrow, they'd also effectively be buying Andy Carroll's value (either in terms of an available balance, or more likely reduced debts). Yes, but the value of Assets at the club in terms of playing squad has fallen. If that £35M is spunked then the value of was spent and then wasted will have gone from the club. Indeed, or it might be well invested or not invested at all. And the team might do better or worse without him. So selling Carroll doesn't necessarily do anything to the club's value. Your right, as with Assets they can rise or fall. Tiote and Ben Arfa will be assets which are likely to rise, especially with Tiote. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 It doesn't really matter to the balance sheet if we own Andy Carroll as an asset or the £35m in cash. Both have equal value in assessing the financial worth of the club. Attractiveness to a buyer is another question mind. Of course it matter as I reckon it is nailed on we did not value him at £35 million but we now value £35m as errr £35million. Can someone confirm what the value of the squad was in the last report. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. We're hardly Ashley's cash cow FFS, he hasn't made any money out of us and stands very little chance of ever doing so. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. He'd still possess the value of the club though in absence of those players (a value which will have increased in the mean time). Furthermore, with ticket income remaining strong and guaranteed, if people take him up on 3+ year deals, he'll also have a relatively cheap wage bill. With television money having leaped up recently also, of course. Do we have any genuine reason to believe he is going to personally pocket the £35M from the sale of Andy Carroll and all transfer income from future player sales? Ticket income may be strong but not guaranteed(opt out clause at the end of each season), the value of the club remains but so would the debt that the club has. Value of club includes any assets the club has (including players) so selling them would decrease value of the club. No, because the club now has the value of the player in cash form. Hypothetically, if someone bought the club from him tomorrow, they'd also effectively be buying Andy Carroll's value (either in terms of an available balance, or more likely reduced debts). Yes, but the value of Assets at the club in terms of playing squad has fallen. If that £35M is spunked then the value of was spent and then wasted will have gone from the club. Indeed, or it might be well invested or not invested at all. And the team might do better or worse without him. So selling Carroll doesn't necessarily do anything to the club's value. Your right, as with Assets they can rise or fall. Tiote and Ben Arfa will be assets which are likely to rise, especially with Tiote. Which is why I originally disagreed and said Ashley can sell players and not harm his investment... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 It doesn't really matter to the balance sheet if we own Andy Carroll as an asset or the £35m in cash. Both have equal value in assessing the financial worth of the club. Attractiveness to a buyer is another question mind. Of course it matter as I reckon it is nailed on we did not value him at £35 million but we now value £35m as errr £35million. Can someone confirm what the value of the squad was in the last report. Yeah, I meant assuming we had valued Carroll at £35m. Once his value is established as that... say if we had turned down the bid. Obviously if you value an asset at £10m but manage to sell it for £35m then you've got yourself a good deal! Edit: Also I imagine Carroll's value was pretty high considering he had just made the England squad and we'd got him on a new 5-year deal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. We're hardly Ashley's cash cow FFS, he hasn't made any money out of us and stands very little chance of ever doing so. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. Well he saved a good £55 million on wages last season alone. Even with the players we've signed since, our wage bill can only have gone up £15 million a year. I'd say compared to this time 20 months ago, our wage bill has decreased by at least £40 million a year. Neesy, I don't think Ashley is trying to get us relegated this season. 2008/09 however ... £55M, hahahaha. Where you getting those figures from? NUST??? No chance that owen, martins, viduka, beye, duff, bassong, xisco were on £55M between them. January 2009 - January 2010 (Being modest, I think) Given - £60k N'somnia - £30k Owen - £105k a week Bassong - £30k Viduka - £65k Martins - £75k Cacapa - £30k Beye - £30k Duff - £70k Gonzalez - £10k (being very modest) Geremi - £40k Comes to around £50 million a year. Given - £3m Insomia - £1.5m Owen - £5m Bassong - 500k (no chance bassong was on 30k) Viduka - £3.5M Martins - £3.5M Cacapa - £1.5M Beye - 1.75M Duff - £3M Gonzalez - 500k Geremi - £2.5M Grand Total Of: Around £25M a year. You need to back to school mate. To get £50 million I added the player sales to the saving in wages. I can't believe I've just witnessed Neesy schooling someone on N-O this is Hall of Fame worthy I thought it was pretty clear he was including the transfer value, to be fair... But yeah, this hasn't looked good, I'll give you that, heh... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. We're hardly Ashley's cash cow FFS, he hasn't made any money out of us and stands very little chance of ever doing so. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. He'd still possess the value of the club though in absence of those players (a value which will have increased in the mean time). Furthermore, with ticket income remaining strong and guaranteed, if people take him up on 3+ year deals, he'll also have a relatively cheap wage bill. With television money having leaped up recently also, of course. Do we have any genuine reason to believe he is going to personally pocket the £35M from the sale of Andy Carroll and all transfer income from future player sales? Ticket income may be strong but not guaranteed(opt out clause at the end of each season), the value of the club remains but so would the debt that the club has. Value of club includes any assets the club has (including players) so selling them would decrease value of the club. No, because the club now has the value of the player in cash form. Hypothetically, if someone bought the club from him tomorrow, they'd also effectively be buying Andy Carroll's value (either in terms of an available balance, or more likely reduced debts). Yes, but the value of Assets at the club in terms of playing squad has fallen. If that £35M is spunked then the value of was spent and then wasted will have gone from the club. Indeed, or it might be well invested or not invested at all. And the team might do better or worse without him. So selling Carroll doesn't necessarily do anything to the club's value. Your right, as with Assets they can rise or fall. Tiote and Ben Arfa will be assets which are likely to rise, especially with Tiote. Which is why I disagreed and said Ashley can sell players and keep making money... That is correct, as long as we replace every player sold with a player with equal potential to that we'll make a profit on them. Isn't this what ashley has said he wants to do anycase ?!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 And you would be happy with that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveR Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 After trawling through pages of financial disagreements, I can't find/be arsed to search for what was said about Jose when asked about Liverpool interest. Anyone care to update me on it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. I don't think the club selling Carroll for £35m shows that they lack ambition. Failing to reinvest that money back into the squad will show a lack of ambition. True, that is kind of what I'm trying to get at. I just don't think they will reinvest the a lot of the money, which is why I am bitter about the sale. I understand those that say they too would have accepted a £35 million bid for the player, but as fans, we would reinvest that money into the squad. Will Ashley? We can only wait and see. Selling Carroll has improved our financial standing, but it has shown other clubs that we will sell our best players and that ultimately the club lacks ambition. TBH selling a player for the all time british record signing of an english player doesn't demonstrate that we'd sell our best players due to a lack of ambition. It shows that if you want our best players, you better be willing to cough up the dough to pay for them We'll see what happens with Enrique and Tiote in the summer ... I agree tottally with the sentiment of distrust that you have, I have it too. But there a number of reasons I'm certain that they won't leave 1) Where are they going to go? All the top teams have it covered 2)Even if a top team do want them as benchwarmers, are these teams gonna pay over ten million minimum for a benchwarmer? Mind you if we do go down they'll be gone as well as the fact that I don't hold high our chances of keeping them if we don't bring any players in. Hypothetically speaking ... Evra leaves Man Utd for a Barcelona/R. Madrid/Inter type club for £8 million. Guess who they come to first? Liverpool shed Konchesky ... they come for Enrique. Barcelona look for a long-term replacement for Abidal (plus he's Spanish). Man Utd finally get rid of Hargreaves, Tiote could be the athletic DM they've needed for years. Abramovich continues to pump transfer funds into Chelsea, so they bid £15m. West Ham stay up, and Redknapp finally gives up on Parker, guess which DM they come for. Call my viewpoint grim, but with these bastards as owners I've lost all optimism for this club. Just think we're going to become a conveyor belt for talent, Ashley's cash cow. Do you know what a cash cow is? Ashley will be lucky if he ever breaks even let alone makes a profit out of Newcastle United. We're hardly Ashley's cash cow FFS, he hasn't made any money out of us and stands very little chance of ever doing so. I have a business degree ... so yes. You seriously think he can't turn this club into a "nice little earner" for himself? Decreasing wage bill, emphasis placed on "developing young players" to be harvested in the future - leading to increasing revenue from transfer sales. He sold Carroll for £35 million, Tiote and Enrique could realistically go for a combined £22 million. This situation would put him £47 million in profit from 3 players. Let's say Ben Arfa has a good season next term, he could be worth £12-15 million by the end of 2011/12. And he would still be considerably short of the £200M plus he has already invested into the club. So no, I think it is a long way from becoming a cash cow or a 'nice little earner'. He'd still possess the value of the club though in absence of those players (a value which will have increased in the mean time). Furthermore, with ticket income remaining strong and guaranteed, if people take him up on 3+ year deals, he'll also have a relatively cheap wage bill. With television money having leaped up recently also, of course. Do we have any genuine reason to believe he is going to personally pocket the £35M from the sale of Andy Carroll and all transfer income from future player sales? Ticket income may be strong but not guaranteed(opt out clause at the end of each season), the value of the club remains but so would the debt that the club has. Value of club includes any assets the club has (including players) so selling them would decrease value of the club. No, because the club now has the value of the player in cash form. Hypothetically, if someone bought the club from him tomorrow, they'd also effectively be buying Andy Carroll's value (either in terms of an available balance, or more likely reduced debts). Yes, but the value of Assets at the club in terms of playing squad has fallen. If that £35M is spunked then the value of was spent and then wasted will have gone from the club. Indeed, or it might be well invested or not invested at all. And the team might do better or worse without him. So selling Carroll doesn't necessarily do anything to the club's value. Your right, as with Assets they can rise or fall. Tiote and Ben Arfa will be assets which are likely to rise, especially with Tiote. Which is why I disagreed and said Ashley can sell players and keep making money... That is correct, as long as we replace every player sold with a player with equal potential to that we'll make a profit on them. Isn't this what ashley has said he wants to do anycase ?!? Give or take, yep. Although the replacement player doesn't have to be as good as the player who just left, just ideally good enough to ensure the rest of the club doesn't lose any earning potential (largely through ticket sales and television money). That way you can sell high, buy cheap and pocket the profit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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