Guest Knightrider Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 I've never been one of those who thought you HAD to change the name as it never really bothered me, however if a lot of fans and the club itself feel uncomfortable with the name, therefore it would do yous the world of good to make a compromise and come up with a more suitable name. I'm sure you would get far more respect for that and indeed support, none more so than from the club itself which is most important, if you did. I understand why some may think "why should we change the name" or "look how far we've come with the name and not much support" but you need to think outside of yourselves now, and look at the bigger picture. I see lots of potential for an organisation like TU but to realise it you will have to make some critical decisions in order to make it more accessible and more viable long-term. Depends what you want though. If you are happy with things as it is and feel you can carry on just as well, I say stick with the name and keep going as you are. If you want more though like a signing end and more members, to be more influential and to have more of a say within the corridors of power where the atmosphere is concerned, you have to change the name and adopt a new set of criteria. The name isn't that important, it's what's beneath the name that is - the support of NUFC and the atmosphere at SJP. Don't cut off your noses to spite your faces lads because in Mort especially we may well just have a chairman who is pro-fan involvement which we should all recognise, tap into and err, get involved with. Embrace change and input from OTHERS, even if some of them are club officials. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 I don't think the idea was to give away part of the site to post on More to promote what the ultras had planned. I think it gets confused calling your guys BBTN when you call yourselves Ultras would confuse people who have no idea what your doing. I like the idea of the Ultras, I think it's got a long way to go though cause at the minute the noise is fixed in one section which doesn't work, also after reading your forum the ideas of being silent for 5 minutes or whatever to show how "important" the ultras are or to all run in making loads of noise, seems to detract totally from the apparent idea of the group. I must admit, it is a rather foolish idea. At first i was all for it, but when i think about it, we are trying to gain a relationship with the club and other fan groups like yourself, and by doing this we could be wrecking all chance of us gaining a relationship. I think what you have mentioned will only happen if the club continue to show us no support/continue to give us no feedback. It is kind of a way of hitting back saying, who else is going to sing and provide an atmosphere. Obviously it isn't just the BBTN Boys who sing, but everyone who attends the home games must admit we provide alot of the atmosphere. Just for the record i would also like to say that 'Do You Want An Atmosphere?' is aimed at the over-zealous stewarding and policing not the remainder of the ground as it may seem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 I've never been one of those who thought you HAD to change the name as it never really bothered me, however if a lot of fans and the club itself feel uncomfortable with the name, therefore it would do yous the world of good to make a compromise and come up with a more suitable name. I'm sure you would get far more respect for that and indeed support, none more so than from the club itself which is most important, if you did. I understand why some may think "why should we change the name" or "look how far we've come with the name and not much support" but you need to think outside of yourselves now, and look at the bigger picture. I see lots of potential for an organisation like TU but to realise it you will have to make some critical decisions in order to make it more accessible and more viable long-term. Depends what you want though. If you are happy with things as it is and feel you can carry on just as well, I say stick with the name and keep going as you are. If you want more though like a signing end and more members, to be more influential and to have more of a say within the corridors of power where the atmosphere is concerned, you have to change the name and adopt a new set of criteria. The name isn't that important, it's what's beneath the name that is - the support of NUFC and the atmosphere at SJP. Don't cut off your noses to spite your faces lads because in Mort especially we may well just have a chairman who is pro-fan involvement which we should all recognise, tap into and err, get involved with. Embrace change and input from OTHERS, even if some of them are club officials. Great post mate. I think alot of our members are very stubborn and believe that we can keep progressing alone. I must admit i agree to a certain degree, but at the same time, our aim is to Bring Back The Noise, so if we get more people on our side this will happen quicker. I think we should change our name still, but having flags/banners with our name on and everyone knowing us as Toon Ultras are problems. If we were to change our name it would kind of be one step back...(in some peoples eyes). I think alot of our members are also worried that if we get too much of a relationship with the club that they will take over and we will lose any say in what we do, and to be honest that i don't blame them for. Just wondering what did you mean by "new criteria"? that kinda lost me off a bit. Anyways sorry that post was pretty unstructured, but y'kna haha. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 I think what you have mentioned will only happen if the club continue to show us no support/continue to give us no feedback. It is kind of a way of hitting back saying, who else is going to sing and provide an atmosphere. Obviously it isn't just the BBTN Boys who sing, but everyone who attends the home games must admit we provide alot of the atmosphere. Just for the record i would also like to say that 'Do You Want An Atmosphere?' is aimed at the over-zealous stewarding and policing not the remainder of the ground as it may seem. I was wondering that the first time I heard it, I thought fuck off it's not just you lot singing the whole stadium has been on it's feet singing for most of the match. Then I saw all the police and realised what was going on. I understand why people may think it's a step back to change the name as people have learned it but this is something that is meant to carry on for many years. If it was a short term thing, fine keep the name. But it's not and thats the one of the biggest problems of the current Ultras team they have a short term mindset and don't like new suggestions from people who have created things which have been a success in the past. I went on the portal and gave my two cents once and was basically told my opinion wasn't welcome fuck off, so I did and haven't posted since and I know this has happened to others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 I think what you have mentioned will only happen if the club continue to show us no support/continue to give us no feedback. It is kind of a way of hitting back saying, who else is going to sing and provide an atmosphere. Obviously it isn't just the BBTN Boys who sing, but everyone who attends the home games must admit we provide alot of the atmosphere. Just for the record i would also like to say that 'Do You Want An Atmosphere?' is aimed at the over-zealous stewarding and policing not the remainder of the ground as it may seem. I was wondering that the first time I heard it, I thought f*** off it's not just you lot singing the whole stadium has been on it's feet singing for most of the match. Then I saw all the police and realised what was going on. I understand why people may think it's a step back to change the name as people have learned it but this is something that is meant to carry on for many years. If it was a short term thing, fine keep the name. But it's not and thats the one of the biggest problems of the current Ultras team they have a short term mindset and don't like new suggestions from people who have created things which have been a success in the past. I went on the portal and gave my two cents once and was basically told my opinion wasn't welcome f*** off, so I did and haven't posted since and I know this has happened to others. I'm sure if you began posting on our forums once again, you wouldn't recieve such a hostile reception. The problem with our forums is that we get alot who go on purely for the craic, and alot are far to stubborn. Recently we have gained quite a few members off here who have signed up to see what we are about, and all the 'Bring Back The Noise Boys' are being a bit more open minded. Currently there is a bit of a divide on the forums about name changes and the likes, so that will work in your favour as a member giving your opinion. Whatever is said just take it with a pinch of salt mate. If i am totally honest (again) there are alot of people on our forums who don't do fuck all for the BBTN Boys, in terms of visual displays and making suggestions. But they turn up and sing which is what counts. One member springs to mind 'MightyMags' who is a bit like your 'Crumpy Gunt'. Also people like 'Washingtoon'/'Washingarse' just fuck around. Like already mentioned just take it on the chin and keep posting, there are some good new ideas being talked about at the moment, including the possibilites of a surfer, a card display, and new flag designs... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 I think we should change our name still, but having flags/banners with our name on and everyone knowing us as Toon Ultras are problems. If we were to change our name it would kind of be one step back...(in some peoples eyes). It needn't be though. See the positives in making new flags which presents an opportunity to get the creative juices flowing and maybe fan participation. I'm sure you could knock up a press release and ask the Chronicle to print it asking fans to come up with some new flag/banner and logo ideas for the new name/branding, maybe even to help come up with a new name altogether? This could also provide you with an opportunity to express why you want to change the name from Toon Ultras and show the world that yous want to progress, kind of killing two birds with one stone. I think alot of our members are also worried that if we get too much of a relationship with the club that they will take over and we will lose any say in what we do, and to be honest that i don't blame them for. What are the club going to do, hire singers and chanters? They won't take over because they can't. The club will obviously lead the way but what's the problem with that? They have the means to promote a healthier atmosphere, to invite fans like yourself, groups like the TU, to take advantage of this new pro-atmosphere agenda. Again, don't cut off your noses to spite your faces. The club don't want to take over and know the folly in trying to manufacture this, it has to come from fans, with club input and it will if yourselves are open to it. The club certainly are. Just wondering what did you mean by "new criteria"? that kinda lost me off a bit. A new agenda, new principles and ideas. Instead of TU being a Corner or L7 only group, try to branch out, have an army of TU in all 4 stands. Think outside of yourselves as a group. Honestly the potential is huge, the effort or desire is already there which yous should be applauded for and giving all the pushing yous need, but yous will have to start working with others, whether it be other fans, the club and even stewards. The way I see it, if yous don't join forces with the club and branch out, another fan led group will take over. Either way I'm not bothered, all I want is an improved atmosphere and whether it comes from the Ultras who whoever, I don't care and I imagine the club won't either, if there is a negative attitude towards them and their own ideas from the TU. Yous are in a very strong position because yous are now semi-established and people despite some of the attitudes from TU do want to help, the club do too, and want to get involved, but with something like this you have to let go and separate the TU as being exclusively yours, to being something for everyone and if that means changing the name or whatever, so be it. This isn't about kudos or anything but about enforcing an improved atmosphere and therefore lifting the lads out on the pitch which is what this is all about, no? The Toon! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujpest doza Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Too long and too heavy, i got bored after the first few paragraphs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 What are the club going to do, hire singers and chanters? They won't take over because they can't. The club will obviously lead the way but what's the problem with that? They have the means to promote a healthier atmosphere, to invite fans like yourself, groups like the TU, to take advantage of this new pro-atmosphere agenda. Again, don't cut off your noses to spite your faces. The club don't want to take over and know the folly in trying to manufacture this, it has to come from fans, with club input and it will if yourselves are open to it. The club certainly are. The club also will be happy to help as they can make money off selling more flags, scarfs etc if they help promote your group. That's not a bad thing it's a good thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 By all means stick with the "Ultras" tag. Just don't come running when we're in Europe and you come across trouble playing someone like Partizan Belgrade or Feyenoord. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 It was agreed a while back the site would fully support as much as it could if there was a name change and we were told there would be but it never came. How utterly pathetic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 On who's part? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 The name change debate has been brought up once again in the council forum and will no doubt be debated in the main forums, for anyone wishing to express there views feel free to join up www.toonultras.com it will be in the Toon Ultras Talk section within the coming week no doubt... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 On who's part? I swear i must be missing something. I haven't entered or read any of the Toon Ultras arguments/debates, but is there actually summat, hidden beneath it all, that is so dispicably taboo about the name, or something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 On who's part? I swear i must be missing something. I haven't entered or read any of the Toon Ultras arguments/debates, but is there actually summat, hidden beneath it all, that is so dispicably taboo about the name, or something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Sorry, i'm a bit ignorant tbh. I don't really know the half of it in all honesty. I just read what Toontastic said and it sounded a bit daft. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 On who's part? I swear i must be missing something. I haven't entered or read any of the Toon Ultras arguments/debates, but is there actually summat, hidden beneath it all, that is so dispicably taboo about the name, or something? I don't know what dispicably taboo means, but basically 'Ultras' on the continent are known for being hooligans and go round stabbing one another,etc. So despite everyone knowing we don't inted to cause trouble, it deters people from joining, for the fact it has a connotation of hooliganism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Ahh. Righto. I see. Ah, suppose i can see the argument now, yeah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Ahh. Righto. I see. Ah, suppose i can see the argument now, yeah. Things will probably get discussed in the coming weeks regarding our name, so that we can gain more members, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Sorry, i'm a bit ignorant tbh. I don't really know the half of it in all honesty. I just read what Toontastic said and it sounded a bit daft. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultras Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 I think we should change our name still, but having flags/banners with our name on and everyone knowing us as Toon Ultras are problems. If we were to change our name it would kind of be one step back...(in some peoples eyes). It needn't be though. See the positives in making new flags which presents an opportunity to get the creative juices flowing and maybe fan participation. I'm sure you could knock up a press release and ask the Chronicle to print it asking fans to come up with some new flag/banner and logo ideas for the new name/branding, maybe even to help come up with a new name altogether? This could also provide you with an opportunity to express why you want to change the name from Toon Ultras and show the world that yous want to progress, kind of killing two birds with one stone. Just because you change the 'official' name doesn't mean you have to sack off all of the flags and banners, make some new ones, keep the old ones...its not as tho we're flush with colour around the ground at the moment... ...one thing I noticed on L7 in the Milburn were coat hooks that people had put up...can we do something similar for the banners - this way it adds colour to the ground w/out blocking anyones view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gleebals Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Am I right in thinking I should get SJH L7 tickets to sit with the Ultra's?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Am I right in thinking I should get SJH L7 tickets to sit with the Ultra's?? League games is Sir John Hall Level 7, usually blocks H and J. Cup games we are situated in the South East ('Strawberry') Corner. www.toonultras.com/forums Sign up mate and see what the craic is. (am I allowed to do that on these forums...i'm sure i read somewhere something about advertising) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 It's fine mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 It's been a month now, and still no reply (from what i know of). The 'Portfolio' must have been poorly written, or they mustn't like our ideas. Either that or they need pestering for answers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Did your portfolio have any questions ? If not might they not just be reading it and using it to go with the ideas we and other fanzines will be providing them ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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