Matt

I think those numbers were based on TV and prize income, which is dependent mainly on where you finish, with a few extra quid if you get shown repeatedly.

Most banks will not lend businesses for longer than three years. I've seen a few on a 5-year but these are strong credit companies, it's starying to ease a little. Ten year money to NUFC is simply not available. Locking in cash generally requires a bigger number than £50m bacuase of the costs of the structure and the rating processes. The idea that there would be no repayment for the first two years won't make anyone more comfortable. You'll find some fund or other out there who will lend it to you- but at an interest rate of anything from 10-20%, which is probably well above what investors would be looking at for a return at this stage of the process. I think it's fair to say that the ease of borrowing money has changed a little since the Glazers took over Man Utd.

But there is no reason to beleive we can service it- we are in a regime which favours football creditors over all others (although the legality of this is questionable and is what has led so many clubs to the wall), where huge sums can be invested with often zero return. You could spend £50m and go riding back to the PL as champions, but it's not assured. For an investor that's fine as long as you appreciate the risk when you get involved. For a bank that's unacceptable. Taking into account just how close to the wind we've been sailing for some time now, lending a significant amount on a long-term basis would be crazy. A lender needs to know where a business is going to be in 5 years if it's going to make a 5 year loan. We don't know where we are from one day to the next. That's not to say we couldn't raise money, but it would be at such a cost that you might as well use investors cash or take a shareholders loan- at lease the shareholders should have more faith in the business than an outsider and so the rate would reflect this lower risk. I'm sure if we had a settled business, operating in the PL then we could probably optimise the business by taking on some debt but right now is the worst possible time.

I don't think banks would be interested. Might get interest from more speculative investors but I'm not sure we'd want to be putting our club's future with those sort of folk (like Man Utd have). The club is leaking cash and as a severe credit risk borrowing would be cripplingly expensive. In the current climate every loan is severely scrutinised and the argument for lending money to NUFC is really pretty weak. We're relying on people with money to put in.

I think it's just a typo and there should be a 'not' in there

What .com said makes sense. £100m (likely a bit less) gets you the club and the £110m owed to Ashley is written off.

I've not got a copy to hand, but the sponsorship deals paid up front but not earned should have been classed as a liability on the books. The stadium debt was subject to a change of control clause, but not only is that a pretty standard clause, he could always have googled it- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2343907/Takeover-bid-is-a-fog-on-the-Tyne.html

that will be the small print he'll try to hide......just like was done to him. He only had to look at the accounts that anyone can download, which were even more detailed when we were a plc. Staggering that he didn't even ask the question.

And there's nothing to say that the overdraft is used, it just might be being cut and we need to ensure our finances are in shape to deal with that- very different to having someone knocking on the door asking for the money back yesterday.

Yes, purchasing a company means you purchase all the assets and liabilities of that company - since NUFC owes £110m to Ashley's company (St James' Holdings Ltd or whatever its called), that debt will be attached to NUFC when ownership changes hands. Pretty sure a heavily discounted settlement on this loan would be part of any deal. Following a takeover, there is no way anyone would want £110m owed to a former owner on the books.

I don't think so because we don't owe any third party, such as a bank, any money. Ashley has financed the club with his own money so we're safe from administration if that's what you mean. And we are still a very viable business for someone with just a little bit more nous than Mike fucking Ashley. Erm, I think the whole gist of the the thread is that actually we owe Barclays quite a lot of money.

Christ.

Don't see where he gets £100m from. At 30th June 2008, our total assets were £128m. Given that there is an overdraft to satisfy, a squad to build to have any hope of sustaining decent revenue and a gaping chasm in terms of the wage bill to income for the next season or two, I'm not sure that the club is worth anything at all. Portsmouth went for £30m, don't see how we can justify a higher price than that.

Also, we have a mortgage debenture as security so the bank could take assets to the fair value of any amount owed. However, given that our main assets are a single-use building and players registrations, it would be very messy.

If we're maxing out our overdraft then someone needs shooting. Banks have every right to reduce or totally pull an overdraft- it's the nature of the deal. Equally, if you're going to need that money on a heavily-drawn basis, then you need to ensure there are sufficient committed facilities in place. Barclays will not be banging down the door and looking to put us into administration. They just don't want £40m of uncommitted line out to a business that has just lost a huge chunk of it's revenue stream with no real reduction in the cost base. Barclays will also be VERY reluctant to be seen to be putting the sword to a football club with out habit of being in the headlines. There are other high-profile clubs who are almost getting preferential treatment on the basis that the banks need to avoid the headlines. Clearly, that sympathy dimished with league position. I'm very surprised that Ashley has done this and clearly he's not totally flush with millions himself. He is the main creditor of the club and in the event of Barclays actually escalating things, he then loses the control over how he is repaid, though he would still be the majority voteholder in the event of a CVA. One way or another, if we're 100% on this overdraft, then we're going to have to locate £20m pretty quickly. I don't think we'll get it in the transfer market- foreign deals are paid in instalments and I'm not sure we'd get £20m from likely UK-bound players. We don't have incoming sponsorship cash and ST money is yet to come- bear in mind those who paid up front- that cash has already gone. Ashley clearly doesn't have any so the only real source is from new equity and the speed of the sale required will force the price down even further.

If we could bring in 4 or 5 decent players on loan, this massively assist with the transition as we rebuild the squad. We won't be able to sign 10 good players permanently at the drop of a hat. You'd hope we're doing our utmost to secure some season-long deals.

premiership club bought for apparently £32 mill as opposed to a championship one for at least £90mill if press are to be believed. Which just goes to further prove that the true valuation of NUFC is a very round number.

Unsustainable wage bill with their gates. Harsh reality is no-one really cares. Lots of people here saying its a shame but unless people go to watch these sides then they will simply tumble out of existence. Paying this £65k is simply delaying the inevitable.

I can only make 1 in 2 with so many games shifted for TV but as far as I'm concerned the renewal is as good as done.

Fucking hell, another game I can't make now. Starting to wonder why I buy a season ticket.

The club owed Ashley around £100m and while the loan has (farily cheap) intrerest payable, Ashley waived this according to the last set of accounts. The remaining loan of around £145m is effecively held at St James Holdings Limited level and represents the money used to buy the club in the first place. In the event of administration of the club, this loan would is unlikely to be repaid unless a very good offer was made for NUFC. That £145m is more or less up in smoke now and it will be very difficult for Ashley to recover any of that. He certainly won't be making a profit- he massively overpaid for a business that already had impending cashflow issues and is likely to lose at least £150m of his investment.

We're not under £250m of debt. SJHL owes this, but that includes all the money that was used to buy the shares of the club. The only person SJHL owes money is Mike Ashley. We are under no more or less debt than we would otherwise have been. Monies injected by Ashley that at in reality unlikely to be recovered in the long term have been classed as debt when really this is a little misleading (similar to Comrade A of Chelsea). This club is, as it was before the takeover, a rubbish business proposition in an industry where its very hard to consistently make money. It can only ever exist as a act of philanthropy or as a personal prize.

Given that the club's main creditor is Mike Ashley- there is no sense in having a fire sale and losing players for a pittance. If we were sitting on a loan callable on relegation (as the old stadium loan was) then it would be completely different. There's an element of risk attached in holding onto those players of course, but if you're going to sell a player at a discount higher than a year's wages then it makes absolutely no sense. If you send the message that you're panicking and need to raise instant cash, you'll be left with no squad and a few pennies in the tip jar.

There is not a club in the country which runs its finances as badly as Leeds did. That truly was spectacular.

Think of it this way, if we went down and packed the ground out all season, it would end "where were you when you were shit" threads once and for all. Are you telling me that's not worth £500?