NJS

So Keegan's role was to get a half-arsed under populated squad to play above themselves and just about make mid table and his leaving having exposed how weak and based on confidence that squad is that somehow remains his fault? Fuck right off.

Someone told me the news at work when I was sorting some shit out which meant I couldn't get the details and I was torn between numbness and anger but having got home and seen/heard what the bloke has said I agree with Dave here. I thought Venables was very honest and Kinnear has continued the trend which is a change from all the bullshit and lies of the last month.

I'll wait till the next game where he's up against a muscular CF after how much Cole upset him - he looks very good against more footballing types but I fear for him when we play against Drogbha, Carew, Jones and even Heskey.

Turning down approaches is one thing and I'd have no problem in seeing that as showing his commitment but quite a few articles suggesting "whoring" appeared in the early summer - as Robster has said on the other thread I feel his "listening to the fans" is a get-out clause for something he was trying to do anyway. I thought he was looking for more investors to help out financially, like QPR have to use his words. Another statement which seemed to make sense but as I said, given his other BS I don't believe anything he ever said.

Turning down approaches is one thing and I'd have no problem in seeing that as showing his commitment but quite a few articles suggesting "whoring" appeared in the early summer - as Robster has said on the other thread I feel his "listening to the fans" is a get-out clause for something he was trying to do anyway. Why would he turn down offers if he was looking to sell? He wasn't looking to sell until the protests, like it or not. Not the full £450M.

Turning down approaches is one thing and I'd have no problem in seeing that as showing his commitment but quite a few articles suggesting "whoring" appeared in the early summer - as Robster has said on the other thread I feel his "listening to the fans" is a get-out clause for something he was trying to do anyway.

What did the protests achieve exactly? All it did was provoke Ashley into publicly putting the club up for sale, which has left us in limbo. If it had never happened we may have had a new manager by now. Quite a few of us said protests would make the situation worse, don't shoot us for being right. A new manager would have just got in the way when Ashley sold the club which he's been trying to do all year. When giving him a chance it was easy to believe his denials even when the NY firm confirmed talks but now I know what a liar he is its obvious there was something to all those reports. All the protests/fallout have done is bring matters to a head. Source? I thought he had been putting people like Ambani and the new City owners off. The protests haven't brought anything to a head, we're just as confused, befuddled, and bewildered as ever. I'm talking a while ago - this if from July: http://www.football.virginmedia.com/page/NewcastleUnitedDetail/0,,12555~1339369,00.html There was talk of DIC before that as well.

What did the protests achieve exactly? All it did was provoke Ashley into publicly putting the club up for sale, which has left us in limbo. If it had never happened we may have had a new manager by now. Quite a few of us said protests would make the situation worse, don't shoot us for being right. A new manager would have just got in the way when Ashley sold the club which he's been trying to do all year. When giving him a chance it was easy to believe his denials even when the NY firm confirmed talks but now I know what a liar he is its obvious there was something to all those reports. All the protests/fallout have done is bring matters to a head.

Can you quote the seasons when any of those got within a million miles (or 4 points) of winning the title? Thanks. I like the way you specify the number of points we were from winning. Goes to show how threadbare your argument actually is. Okay one place, two games, 4 days anyway you like - explain how those managers have achieved as much as KK did. We all know Keegan was/is "over" emotional - that's one of the reasons why he connected with the fans so its okay to comment on it but comparing what he did with non-entities and football murderers shows you've completely missed what he did. At a time when so many people are simply falling out of love with football, Keegan was the perfect antidote to that. In the cold light of day its possible that someone more clinical could have and still will be "better" for the club in the medium/long term but this sniping at a man who has done more for Newcastle United than anyone in my lifetime is absolutely pathetic.

Can you quote the seasons when any of those got within a million miles (or 4 points) of winning the title? Thanks.

I thought they were equally to blame - the ball was hurried and he should have seen O'hara just as much as Taylor.

Despite my arguing that's just about how I feel as well. However as a percentage of us being in the shit I think the above is a small contributory factor compared to the "other side" - probably 10% at the most.

By insisting we kept Smith & turned down £12m for Milner? And giving Faye to Stoke City while putting Taylor on a long expensive contract ?? There is a lot of support for the changes the Ashley regime were trying to make and Dennis Wise is a convenient villain. As an ex player said this week "the difference between Dennis Wise and Kevin Keegan is when Wise has a problem he rolls his sleeves up and works at it whereas Keegan throws the toys out of the pram" Keegan "selling" Faye is another rumour - who was responsible for transfers in the wonderful system? How would we know Wise is working?

If it isn't Wise who is responsible for not improving the squad to any significant degree and leaving the team short in key areas whose is it? Leaving Keegan completely out of the equation the recruitment policy/structure has failed to deliver and I'm sick of people on here trying to make out it has. If Keegan had left in May we'd have exactly the same squad we have now. How do you work that out? Sorry - I don't follow you. Because they completely ignored his requests for areas of the team to be strengthened and signed who they wanted (possibly with the exception of Guthrie) - with the defined structure in place why on earth would you think they would have listened to a new manager?

You missed Rozenhal as an out - just to keep the numbers argument correct. As I've said elsewhere theres a desperate assumption that the new players are good - I don;t think there that much of an improvement overall - certainly not enough to improve a team from 13th to anywhere near the top 6.

If it isn't Wise who is responsible for not improving the squad to any significant degree and leaving the team short in key areas whose is it? Leaving Keegan completely out of the equation the recruitment policy/structure has failed to deliver and I'm sick of people on here trying to make out it has. If Keegan had left in May we'd have exactly the same squad we have now.

Because it's blatantly obvious that Ashley won't spend any money?

So have we as fans aimed at the wrong person in all of this and by doing so taken the heat off those responsible? I think we have. No I think the fans have quite rightly been critical of both Ashley and his team. I think people put the blame for the appointments and the lack of transfer funds at Ashley's door and the blame for falling out with Keegan at the others which is the way I see it as well.

How can you compare Cordone to Gutierrez? Guttierez for all his fantastic workrate created the one chance at Arsenal in his first 3 games - Cordone scored on one of his - pretty similar. Being a hypocrite it took me seeing Ginola for 5 minutes to know he was something wonderful.

http://www.nufc.com/2008-09html/transfers-keegan.html do the maths. So Keegan spent an average of just over £6 million per season net in his time at Newcastle, what did the likes of Manure, Arsenal, Blackburn ect spend at the time?, similar amounts no doubt. Sorry but while we certainly spent big for the time it was nowhere near Chelsea style spending. It was also playing catch up going from the second division to title challengers whereas Chelsea had to go from 3rd/4th to 1st.

Because a player can start well and fade like Cordone did but with some its an instant judgement. I don't think any of the new signings are bad as such, I just don't think they are as good as people hope and I want better. Why are you allowed to judge them after 5 games but you lambast others for doing so? I'm just giving my opinion as we all do - people seem desperate to me to justify this system based on the fact that the signings are good. As I said I don't think are bad and I'll be happy if they all turn out to be world beaters but overall I don't share the "happiness" with the window that others have. In terms of numbers, areas and overall quality I don't think we've done enough to improve on last year by any great degree. "You can't judge players on 5 games or less" "Guthrie should only be a squad player which we need more of but if he plays more than 30 games a season for the next 3 years we will get nowhere near Europe." Double Standards? Possibly - I think it works differently if you are judging a player as good or as bad though - with good players its a question of keeping it going whereas with "bad" players its a question of not seeing anything there to build on - I just think Guthrie is okay but won't be anything special.

GM I think there two issues - Ashley put some people in place and sat back - you mention day to day dealings but I don't think that;s how it worked. I see Ashley's "crimes" in terms of negligence and appointing the personnel. Its the actual personnel who in my opinion undermined Keegan and again this was allowed to happen by Ashley.

Because a player can start well and fade like Cordone did but with some its an instant judgement. I don't think any of the new signings are bad as such, I just don't think they are as good as people hope and I want better. Why are you allowed to judge them after 5 games but you lambast others for doing so? I'm just giving my opinion as we all do - people seem desperate to me to justify this system based on the fact that the signings are good. As I said I don't think are bad and I'll be happy if they all turn out to be world beaters but overall I don't share the "happiness" with the window that others have. In terms of numbers, areas and overall quality I don't think we've done enough to improve on last year by any great degree.

Because a player can start well and fade like Cordone did but with some its an instant judgement. I don't think any of the new signings are bad as such, I just don't think they are as good as people hope and I want better.

What some people have done in this thread and should be ashamed of themselves for doing so.