ohmelads

That's how I see it too. If ever there was a time for short-termist thinking, I believe this is it. Shepherd is not a long term answer to our problems, the man's an absolute c*ck who makes rash decisions, tends to neglect youth investment, scouting and consequently racks up debt buying more established players. But I do believe he'll do what it takes to get us back up and as a fan that's what I want. It'll be a lot easier to sort out the debt if/when we're back up. It's a gamble spending money that's not yours but consider the alternatives. Reshaping the club for the Championship long-term, and thus cementing our place in it? f*** that. We need back in the Premier League before the parachute payments go away. I reckon a few of our better players will stay and give us a season to get back up. They did the same at West Ham and Juventus. But the longer you're down the harder it is to get back up.

It's plausible but seems unlikely, unless they're really skint and haggling down to an affordable price, which does not bode well. Whoever they are they'll be aware that the longer they wait, the smaller the rebuilding time and therefore the higher the chances of failure. This is very much a case of the bird in the hand.

He's looked well out of his depth in the Premiership, and I'm not convinced he'd be good enough for a promotion push, not as one of the first XI anyway. We may be dropping a division but we'll still need players who are a cut above the vast majority of the Championship. We do need a squad but from what we've seen of him he'd be easily replaced, he doesn't exactly bring much to the table.

I'd still have Spain down as my favourites for the world cup mind. As much as they may have wanted to win this, the confederations cup is still a dress rehearsal, and pales into insignificance when compared to the world cup. That's not to take anything away from the Americans, who have beaten a great team in great form. It's a big scalp for anybody to beat Spain at the moment. I'd love to see them go all the way and beat Brazil. But the world cup is where these kind of games are death or glory. It's not like the Spanish are devastated and crying in the streets, it's the confederations cup after all and I expect them to turn it on when it matters as they did last year in the Euros. I actually think this defeat might do Spain a lot of good. It'll take them down a peg or two and force them to examine their weaknesses in time for the world cup. They're still the team to beat for me.

Apparently a free agent now. I'd have him back here now we're a league down. me too, I don't think he did that badly when we had him before either. He was pretty poor if I remember correctly but his problems seemed more to do with positioning and judgement. Physically he's massive though and would probably help us in the Championship where teams will see aeriel balls as the best way to cause us problems. I'd have him here in the Championship, on a freebie it'd be a decent signing. Free up precious funds for other players. We'll probably need a few signings like that if we're going to sell a whole load and rebuild the squad.

Is that really sustainable though? No it isn't. But football's business model is totally unsustainable. 15 years ago Jack Walker could bankroll Blackburn to the title. Now you have to be a serious billionaire just to have a shot at the top four. In our case, a billionaire couldn't even keep us in the league! And yet you look at these wealthy owners and none of them are making any money from it. That's fine so long as they're willing to hang in there, but there's only so many billionaire's and only so many places towards the top of the league. As TV revenue and fan money gets hit by the recession, it'll have to be replaced by rich men's money to stop the house of cards from falling down. But when their hundreds of millions buys them midtable glory, how many will stay the course? Huge debt is becoming par for the course just to keep up with those around you. Any struggling club that pockets money in January is asking for a relegation battle. I can't quite tell whether we've gone down at a good time - just before football's bubble bursts - giving us a chance to refinance ourselves and come back up with a much more sustainable business than teams around us, or whether we've gone down at the worst possible time - when investment is very hard to come by.

Well it certainly seems so. :-[ If anyone worth their salt was interested in the club, they'd have come forward by now. The club is going for only 100M, it has a lot of problems but also a lot of potential. Anybody who thought we were worth a punt would have made their interest known 3 weeks ago. It's the middle of June and the club are whoring their e-mail address about - these competent new owners aren't coming. They'd be here already - what are they waiting for? Anyone out there waiting for the price to drop is an idiot because they won't give themselves enough time. Either that or they're totally skint and trying to get us at an even cheaper price. We have to come to terms with the fact that the offers on the table now are about as good as it's going to get. What we must do now is ensure a fast takeover, get the club up and running again, get someone behind the wheel and try and make the best of a very bad situation. Waiting around hoping for a better offer will only see the club fall further behind and give the new owners even less of a chance.

His decisions from Sir Bobby onwards were almost all shocking, and his running of the club was always short-termist, with little investment in the youth set-up, neglect for areas of the squad (we rarely had more than 6 defenders), poor scouting, little patience with managers, and a reliance on agents to buy players late in the transfer window (largely as a result of poor scouting). He's a poor chairman, there's no doubt about it. But he's a chairman and right now there's effectively noone running the club, and no manager. We're already way behind schedule for next season, to have any owner and any manager in charge would put us back in business and give us a chance to compete with our division rivals. If we can get our sh*t together quickly we might give ourselves a fighting chance of getting out of the division. If we don't we may well be down the other end of the table looking over our shoulders. With no organisation, players who want out and don't care, spiralling debt because players weren't moved on, it could get out of control. We have no choice but to think short-term because the club is in freefall, so Freddy's lack of long-term planning pales into insignificance when you look at the prospect of another month or longer with nobody running the club.

Well most Premiership clubs are run on borrowed money these days, very few are operating within their profits. Also, we should bear in mind it was certainly in Ashley's interests to exaggerate about the state of the club's finances when he arrived. This is the same man who believed a few months ago we could finish 6th this season, the same man who bought the club without even looking at the books, and put his mates in charge of running it. During his rant Ashley said he'd cleared our debt, yet it turns out this wasn't even true. Truth is, as insanely badly as he's run this club, a 0-0 draw would still have seen us survive on the final day. So I have little doubt that under any other owner (the Premiership has never seen incompetence on the level of Ashley) we'd have done enough to stay up. Even under Roeder, when we were missing up to 15 players for some games, we still stayed up with about 5 points to spare.

Can this club afford a third spell of poor ownership? Can we afford NOT to replace Ashley ASAP? The answer to both those questions is no. But if it's a choice of Ashley or Shepherd, then Shepherd is the lesser of two evils, without a shadow of a doubt. If that's our choice then we are really f*cked. But if we don't get rid of Ashley soon this club will totally implode. There's nobody running it, no manager, not even a pre-season friendly organised. ANY kind of stability is welcome right now, the club is falling behind by the day. If bringing Shepherd in means bringing some short term stability to the club, then it may not only be our best option but our only option right now. Just having an owner who will run the club in any capacity, a manager who can buy and sell players and prepare our pre-season, will make a huge difference. If I found out tomorrow we have an owner (albeit Shepherd) and a manager (Shearer) I'd honestly feel relief because at least we'll be back in business. Right now we are effectively ownerless, managerless, we are in freefall.

Isn't the club more at fault here than the player though? A large part of me thinks that we got what we deserved in the end. If you remember, the week before he signed, he said that he was only prepared to go to us on loan, and that he wanted to join Liverpool, who were the other club in the running. Shepherd then made an inflated bid which made it impossible for Real to accept Liverpool's offer, so we deliberately put Owen in the position where he either had to bite the bullet and join a club he didn't want to, or spend a season in Real's reserves and therefore possibly miss out on the World Cup. Okay, we didn't force him to join, but morally speaking we were in the wrong IMO, and it was a foolish move anyway because if you manipulate a player into joining you like that, his commitment isn't going to be the same. Then Keegan comes in and makes him the Captain, not because he's the most suitable player for the job, but because he's fallen out with Owen in the past and he wants to make a public gesture that things are okay. Then when he reaches the final year of his contract, the club doesn't issue him with the sign or move ultimatum that is normal and sensible, because Wise and Keegan aren't working together properly and Keegan insists that he stays and we should try to sign him again on the same ridiculous terms that he'd never get anywhere else. It's the club that has cocked this up. As many will know, I don't rate Owen the player but I've no problem with Owen the man. Let's not forget how Owen ended up at Madrid in the first place though. He strung Liverpool and their fans along without ever signing a new contract, forcing the club to cash in on him for only 8M. People say he wasn't Benitez's cup of tea but he can't have been happy at losing the club's top scorer, an England international in his mid-20s, for only 8M quid. And bear in mind, Champions League aside, Benitez struggled in the beginning with Liverpool, finishing 5th. Getting back to Owen, you may be right about the way in which we pursued him, but have you ever heard of a player doing that to a club? I agree it seems our tactic was indeed to blow Liverpool's offer out the water and force his hand. But equally how often do you hear about minimum-fee clauses which halve a player's value in just two seasons? I have never heard of a player so desperate to get out of a club before they'd even played a game. You are absolutely right that the contract he was given was madness from Shepherd, but given his lack of commitment to Liverpool and then to Newcastle I have plenty of reason to doubt Owen's character. His little interview recently claiming he doesn't believe he is injury-prone, after four seasons of almost constant injury and loads of niggly injuries at Liverpool, was an insult to the fans' intelligence.

I was willing to give him a chance to the very end, more out of desperation and a lack of alternatives than anything. He does have very good natural ability that our other strikers didn't possess and like many I hoped he could help pull us out of a desperate situation. But let's be honest it's got nowt to do with recent events; ever since he arrived the lad has totally taken the piss. It says a lot about him that we've now reached a situation where we're relieved to lose a 29 year old striker with loads of England caps for nothing. He epitomises everything that's wrong with our club in recent times. Vastly overpriced. Vastly overpaid. Past his best. Injury prone. Poor attitude (thinks he's bigger than the club). These could be used to describe various players (and managers) in our recent history, but none moreso than Michael Owen. He is one of the worst things to have happened to this club in recent times. Even before he arrived we weren't good enough for him in his eyes. He was pining for a move to Liverpool, and came on the condition that we put clauses in his contract so he could leg it at the first opportunity at a huge financial loss to the club. And the only reason he didn't leave was because noone wanted him, even at a much reduced price. There were various transfer windows where he undermined the club, staying silent while rumours ran throughout the national press about his departure, before committing himself when he realised noone wanted him. We can only wonder what effect this had on other players in the dressing room, who saw him given the captain's armband and in the first team regardless of form or commitment, while earning two or three times their salaries. His actions ever since he arrived have been thoroughly unprofessional. How many games did we go into without a recognise left back or a right back while Owen was sat on the treatment table commanding the salary of two or three players. There's no doubt he's been a factor in our decline. He'll be very lucky to get a move to someone like Everton. There was a time when only his fitness was in question. Now his form and commitment are too.

Wasn't Mort involved in the takeover? The one where hundreds of millions were spent buying a football club without even completing due dilligence, meaning Ashley bought the club without even knowing the debt it was in? An act of massive incompetence, and one that has cost us dearly. Once Ashley paid off this unexpected debt, he never put another penny into the club, and indeed sought to make a profit through transfers, spending absolutely nothing (net) on players in his whole two years here. Did any club in the Premier League spend less than us in the last two years? IF Mort was involved in that takeover, signing the club over without even looking at the books, then he's very culpable.

It was a combination of one team playing close to their best and one team playing nowhere near their best. Ronaldo and Messi were hyped up before the game but it was won and lost in midfield. Xavi and Iniesta once again showed why Spain will be the team to beat at the next world cup.

Time is not on our side in terms of reshaping the squad for the Championship. We have to move on a large number of players and replace them with players who can start performing almost immediately. We've had little time to prepare for this, having been through 4 managers in the last year, and losing a chunk of the summer engaged in a takeover would leave us very ill-prepared for the new campaign. Given that our priority must be climbing back as quickly as possible, I'd say a takeover is pretty unwelcome right now. In the immediate short-term, Ashley staying with Shearer at the helm will minimise the disruption and allow everyone to get on with rebuilding, pronto. However, we also need long-term stability and I doubt we'll ever have that under Ashley. He has made so many mistakes from day one that it seems ludicrous to assume he won't do it again. I really believe that he'll sell up the second he gets the chance, so perhaps the best we can hope for is to bounce straight back and see if any bids come in. Now is not a good time for us though, we've got enough rebuilding on our hands as it is.

If he wants to stay and the club reject bids then he won't be going anywhere. I could see a few Premier League clubs hovering around him, but given his age (he's 33 this year) then hopefully the clubs in Europe will look elsewhere.

He's clearly not the player he was, but in the Championship I think he could be very useful for us, and on the right wages I'd definitely keep him. I don't think some people realise quite how much our stock has just fallen. We're a Championship club now. Of course we could go and sign an up and coming Championship winger, someone on lower wages with perhaps less in his locker but more pace and maybe more desire. But it'd set us back a few million, and once we gut our squad I reckon we'll be lacking in quite a bit of experience. Not only that, but sometimes it's better the devil you know. There are mercenaries in every league, and we're the type of club that attracts them. You can be sure there'll be Championship players young and old with questionable attitude who see us as an easy ticket, as well as rejects from Premier League clubs. And perhaps above all, we may be needing a right winger and have countless other positions to fill. Does it really save money to sell him for next to nothing if his replacement costs 3M and earns 20K a week? We're going to have to make massive changes to our squad, and our team will take time to gel, yet they'll be under pressure to get instant results. If we can keep an experienced player who seems to give a s***, has played under pressure at the highest level and will be good quality in the championship, then of course we should consider it. I suspect the club will be offering incentives based on promotion, in an effort to try and keep some of the players for another year on lower wages.

Don't all players have relegation clauses in their contracts these days? We signed Duff when we we'd just finished 14th didn't we? Surely even a club as badly run as ours wouldn't be so stupid as to have overlooked this.

I agree. I'd forget about the likes of Beye, Enrique etc. Clubs will handpick our top performers and there's nothing we can do about it. That's the reality of relegation. I think the players we have a genuine chance of keeping are: Harper, Krul, Edgar, Taylor, Lovenkrands, Ameobi, Carroll, plus the youngsters. We might keep Nolan and R.Taylor since they arrived so recently. A few others might stay on simply because their stock has fallen so considerably, such as Butt, Smith, Geremi, Xisco, or simply because we won't find any takers for them. The rest I'd forget about, any who stay are a bonus but I think realistically any or all of the rest could go. So long as we can keep the spine of a good championship side, and invest wisely in some up and coming Championship players and one or two hungry young players not getting games for Premier League clubs, we should have the resources to be there or thereabouts. The problem will be getting a new team to gel quickly, and our younger players getting used to the pressure of having to win every week to keep pressure on the top places. This is where we don't look so well equipped for the drop, because we have to make such major changes.

No doubt. Also lets say we were to get back up, it's gonna be such a huge task to actually stay up. Not if we do things properly. We have a lot of advantages at our disposal compared to every other team that has gone down. We are a debt free club, owed money from various clubs for players like Milner. We will have a reduced wage bill which has eaten into our club by about £50 million, we will have player sales, which could easily get us £20 million, we have a good base of youngsters and we have appeal, the best Chamionship players would want to come to us imo. All we have to do is be smart with the money tbh. If Alan does take over, i can imagine him persuading a few of our senior players to stay for at least 6 months, see how we're doing, if we're doing crap then they can leave, if not then stay for promotion. It is key for me that some players stay, i'd like Enrique to stay, Beye to stay, Guthrie and Viduka on a lower wage. If this is done well, then getting back into the PL won't be hard, and staying there would not be too much of a challenge either, we wouldn't be firing for Europe or anything but isn't that the point in rebuilding. The club needs a change of culture, too long have we been the homeless man's galacticos. Viduka is a strange example to make your point (which I agree with by the way). Viduka's quality is in no doubt but he'd be one of the first out the door for me, even if he wanted to stay. He's symptomatic of everything wrong at our club. Past his best, VERY injury prone, big wages, no hunger (let's not be fooled by his last few games, he cantered around earlier in the season). If we're rebuilding and moving on from Shepherd's ex-galactico transfer policy, then Viduka is one of the prime examples. And yes I say this in spite of the fact he's been one of our best players in recent weeks. Look at his contribution this season, his wages, his age, and you have to conclude he'd be a massive liability in the championship. Handing him a new contract would be evidence that we as a club have learnt nothing. Funnily enough, losing Viduka and Owen will save us a bomb on wages and yet when you look at their contributions since christmas, it would not make the squad significantly weaker. If we can replace them with strikers who are very talented (at Championship level), hungry and always fit to play we'll be in with a good chance of bouncing back. I just hope Ashley doesn't see Carroll, Ameobi and Lovenkrands as the solution.

This. Next season we simply have to bounce back up at all costs. The following season, we have to consolidate our premiership status, and after we can start to look to the future. Absolutely.

It's an opportunity to rebuild, but that's all it is. Our house was built on sand but now that it's crumbled, there's no guarantee that the one we're rebuilding will be a fortress. Look at the guy running the club. This is a man who spent hundreds of millions buying a business without even looking at the books. He's compulsive and always will be. With Ashley at the helm, I don't feel confident that this opportunity will be taken. For every opportunity I see a potential pitfall. 1) We are now forced to give younger players a chance. This may be a blessing, either by creating more of a team mentality or discovering hidden talant, OR it may be what keeps us down there for a while as our youth setup is crap. 2) It'll weed out the players who don't care, however, we'll also lose some of those that do, simply because they need or want to play at the highest level. Bear in mind there are mercenaries in the Championship too, and they will prey on a club like ours, famed for handing our long, lucrative contracts. 3) Some players like Taylor, Harper etc will stay and probably excel in the Championship, but we may also have a hard time shifting some players like Smith, who have effectively been out of football for a long time and have failed to recently prove their fitness/quality. Should we fail to move them on, we'll be forced to include them in our first team plans, such are the size of their pay-packets. With them on the wagebill, Ashley will be reluctant to fund moves for other players. In short, we will still be stuck with some of these wasters. It's an opportunity to put things right, but we have to get it right this time. And looking at guy pulling the strings, the guy who landed us here in the first place, I remain deeply worried about our future. I still believe we will not have any sort of stability until we see change at the very top; an owner more committed to the long-term future of the club.

When you're doing well and support your team they call you passionate. When you're doing badly and support your team they call you deluded. In the 90s we were everyone's second team apparently. We were the good guys, taking on Alex Ferguson, providing entertainment and shaking things up. I can't remember when exactly, perhaps around the time of Robson's sacking, we became the bad guys, an example of how a club should not be run. Results dried up and overnight we all became thick, deluded and impatient. The truth is that most fans don't know much at all about other clubs and base their opinions on the daily rags, match of the day and other media outlets. Things get repeated to the point that they're quoted as gospel. We've been getting consistently bad press for years now. We're playing badly yet we get big crowds and in their eyes it makes us deluded, yet most of us are just trying to support our team.

A lot of people are naming the likes of Edgar. From what I've seen, he looks like he might do OK in a mid-Championship side, but isn't the whole idea that we try and bounce straight back up? Isn't that our ambition? I'd put Edgar on a par with someone like Peter Ramage, an emergency squad player drafted in because of serious injuries, who tried his best but was simply never capable at Premiership level. If players like Edgar are in our first XI next season then I don't see us coming straight back up.

I find it curious why fans of various Premier League clubs have been at pains to tell us how small a club we are for years, yet when we are relegated it is massive news for them, even prompting fans of Villa - a club that really has nothing to do with us - to go out of their way and bring banners that say nothing about their own team. The size of a football club is all about perception and their reaction shows that deep down these people do perceive us as a fairly big club, they're just afraid to admit it. Did West Ham fans take banners mocking Boro? In fact nobody is even talking about Boro, who have just been relegated after a decade in the league themselves. Says a lot.