madras

no they didn't,they got better offers or preferred the set up elsewhere. Alan Irvine ran a rotten Acadmeny it was despised by most of the local boys clubs. Get yourself to a Wallsend Boys club function & have a chat with Mr Carrick or any of the other bods from other boys clubs. so they prefferred the set up elsewhere. different to saying the club is rotten. They prefferred elsewhere because Newcastle Youth System is/was rotten. which is different to saying the club is rotten. just think it's a heavy catch all phrase. the youth set up isn't as you'd like so the club is rotten.

no they didn't,they got better offers or preferred the set up elsewhere. Alan Irvine ran a rotten Acadmeny it was despised by most of the local boys clubs. Get yourself to a Wallsend Boys club function & have a chat with Mr Carrick or any of the other bods from other boys clubs. so they prefferred the set up elsewhere. different to saying the club is rotten.

I bet you can prove that, not. Anyway, you're getting into a bit of a corner in this so I'll try and leave it if you are willing to do the same. I know you care about the club but I honestly think you'll gain a little satisfaction if it goes tits up and you get to say "I told you so." I'd prefer to say that to you and I really think it will take the shine off things for you if I'm able to say it to you because we've done well. That's the way you come over on here, rightly or wrongly. I can't prove anything any more than you can. I could be flippant here, and say that as you think our board pre-1992 was "just the same" as the one after, then you are the one who wouldn't mind too much if we are relegated. But because I think it is quite clear that that they were absolute s****, and we have had a good board ever since this time that have left the club miles and miles superior to how they found it, I can state quite categorically that it would be, in my view and backed up by everything I say, a total disaster. Thats not the way you come across, its what you actually say. Why are you ignoring the point about Gazza, Waddle and Beardsley. This is the 3rd time To be fair Waddle was, and remains, a complete and utter t***. 'You only get fish and chips in Newcastle'. Both Gazza and Beardsley went for the money (with the board's support) but Beardsley also for the career. true, they WANTED to go, they wanted to leave the club they supported, because the club was s**** from top to bottom. Is the correct answer. Preceded over a decade earlier by Pop Robson, who went to sodding WEST HAM............for the same reason which has nowt to do with now (as i doubt you'll find anyone who thinks fat fred and cohorts only done bad like you try to make out people think). if we had a gazza,waddle or beardsley in the last 3 or so years they would have gone the same way. I doubt it. why stay at a club obviously treading water ?.....then as now

no they didn't,they got better offers or preferred the set up elsewhere.

I bet you can prove that, not. Anyway, you're getting into a bit of a corner in this so I'll try and leave it if you are willing to do the same. I know you care about the club but I honestly think you'll gain a little satisfaction if it goes tits up and you get to say "I told you so." I'd prefer to say that to you and I really think it will take the shine off things for you if I'm able to say it to you because we've done well. That's the way you come over on here, rightly or wrongly. I can't prove anything any more than you can. I could be flippant here, and say that as you think our board pre-1992 was "just the same" as the one after, then you are the one who wouldn't mind too much if we are relegated. But because I think it is quite clear that that they were absolute s****, and we have had a good board ever since this time that have left the club miles and miles superior to how they found it, I can state quite categorically that it would be, in my view and backed up by everything I say, a total disaster. Thats not the way you come across, its what you actually say. Why are you ignoring the point about Gazza, Waddle and Beardsley. This is the 3rd time To be fair Waddle was, and remains, a complete and utter t***. 'You only get fish and chips in Newcastle'. Both Gazza and Beardsley went for the money (with the board's support) but Beardsley also for the career. true, they WANTED to go, they wanted to leave the club they supported, because the club was s**** from top to bottom. Is the correct answer. Preceded over a decade earlier by Pop Robson, who went to sodding WEST HAM............for the same reason which has nowt to do with now (as i doubt you'll find anyone who thinks fat fred and cohorts only done bad like you try to make out people think). if we had a gazza,waddle or beardsley in the last 3 or so years they would have gone the same way.

I deal with people from Beaumont Terrace & Rogerson Terrace & to be fair them people & areas are nowt. I also dont think Benwell or Blyth are that dodgy. The only area is think is f***** big time & has an absloute edge to it is Cowgate. while east garth looks worse than ever but isn't as rough as it was.

No, that was not my whole point. Re-read my posts. I see your point but I don't think people would piss and moan if the council decided not to spend a few quid on doing up houses for example, if anything taking over people's houses for up to 5 weeks to skim a few walls and fit a few cupboards has done more to piss people off. And why are people scummy? Take a look around the area. There are places in Bosnia that look more peaceful. The area is depressing, demoralising and trashy. An environment like that can't be healthy. If you are what you eat... the same applies, no? I'm a great believer in people and while there are a lot of lost causes in these areas, you can't tell me people are happy living in such conditions, young or old, and don't want better lives for themselves and their kids? By breaking up communities, dispersing people and trashing whole streets into wasteland, they've created a mess of what was once a sound place to live, work and play. Aye it was always rough compared to places like Gosforth etc. but I have lived here all my life as a bairn and as an adult and I've never known it to be like it is today, just a sheer s*** hole that's getting worse by the day. and why are the people scummy ? don't know,sociologists and psychologists will argue for ever and not agree but i think yoiu are getting things the wrong way round....the environment they are in isn't creating them...they are creating it. i live further out in westerhope,brought up in newbiggin hall and spent a bit time in lemington ansd in my experience there are plenty who like nowt better than to shit in their own nest. maybe the council hit on the idea of "if we tart their houses up they may look after them" and that may be a start to making the local environment better. i agree about the breaking up communities as it sometimes spreads the shit to other areas which is unfair on those. what you describe about it being more savage is happening up and down the country in areas where the council have made changes and in those that have been left. chez...the train is supposed to be going up to bedlington in next year then extended to blyth the year after

aye...walker is twinned with darfur for a good reason

Have a f****** word. You don't even live here IIRC so wind your neck in. What the f*** has that got to do with it? Born in Wallsend and lived there for 23 years. I certainly understand economic regeneration and you clearly dont so why dont you wind your neck in. EDIT - I also travel back to the area around 12 times a year on average, spending time in the most economically deprived area in the whole region. So you pay a visit now and then, big f****** deal. There is nowt wrong with my comments on the City. The regeneration was needed and has been a positive as I've noted, but the more the City centre thrives, the less the rest does it seems. I just wish the Guardian would go deep into Newcastle and write a story about it, put it this way it would be a lot less pleasent reading than the above bollocks. I assume you are referring to your post. Unbelievable. On the one hand saying the city needs regenerating and on the other saying that i cant comment on it as i moved away (clearly for economic reasons). Hypocrisy or just idiocy? Perhaps both in this case. Pay a visit? Yes, to go to the match, more than you do. I said wind your neck in not because you don't have a right to comment about regeneration but because you have no right to pour scorn on my views which are deep rooted and at least, unlike yourself, come from a daily understanding of things given I live, work and play in the kind of neglected run down areas that I'm bemoaning, issues that don't effect you or issues you can't truly understand so pardon me when I take offence at some fucker saying "have a word". I said have a word because you were talking through your arse. You still are you patronising t***. About what, in what way? What is it you think I'm talking out of my arse about. That the City outside of the centre is falling a part or being neglected? That parts of this regeneration is misguided or unnecessary or that the City has lost a lot of it's character and virtues? Or was it the line "f*** the City centre" that offended you? hasn't it always been like that,the reputation of scotchy and elswick as dodgy areas go way back. the council can make the places look better but can do little about some of the s*** that lives in it. They have always been rough aye, but savage? I actually agree that making places look better isn't going to work if nothing is done about the s**** within, but then that is exactly what has happened in the past and seems to be happening all over again today. After the riots the council decided to throw money at communities, sprucing up streets and house fronts, streets and houses that didn't need it, as if to placate the people, while neglecting the real issues or just ignoring them in the hope they'd go away or that the people themselves would sort themselves out and their problems. Which didn't happen of course. The answer to everything now today seems to be to demolish and start again. Or to move the trouble makers to another area. Nothing has been done really to tackle the problems other than cosmetically. Take upper Scotswood, the streets that have somehow been saved from demolishment (for how long?), the council are spending millions on replastering, redecorating, new doors, windows etc. etc. at a huge cost yet there is nothing remotely wrong with those houses. Wouldn't a single mother in a council house not be better served by having her rent halved or her fuel bills paid instead of giving her home a lick of paint and newer doors, bearing in mind it wasn't that long ago when they originally did work on houses? That extra savings might enable that single mother to take her kid out more often, to lift their standard of living, if only a little. And now we learn the one good thing the council got right, street wardens, are to be reduced in numbers. Can't afford them apparently. Oh, but you can afford to sponsor some culture event or art show? Doesn't tally up I'm afraid. I guarantee in the next 5-8 years there will be riots again and burning skies within such areas like the West End. The place is a ticking timebomb. Every negative aspect of society is on the up and up. And that's just what you hear about in the Chronicle. If half the things got reported... Me I'm glad my City's centre is getting world-wide recognition, winning awards and becoming a big hit with outsiders, but I can't f****** stand the place, it's false as f***. i thought your whole point was tha they ignored the likes of scotchy etc now you tell us about how much they are spending on it. no doubt if nothing was done someone else would be on here having a go at the state of it and that the council was doing nowt. at the same time as saying about what the council are(n't) doing shouldn't we be looking at the real reason for that areas problems...the sizeable minority of scummy folk who live there.

If that's the case then so did Allardyce, end of thread. not enough to pay the salaries of the players he really wanted to sign though ? I expect you'll ignore this. the only ones i really remember were sidwell and ben haim. any proof of your theory there ?

no I didn't, because they had proved their ambition many times over and accepted the funds weren't there at the time [no real rocket science here mind] - and I wouldn't be hypocritical enough to have urged them to overspend then criticise for them for overspending ........ like numerous people who every time we lost were out in droves with the "splash the cash greedy fat b****** " etc etc What I'm saying now is too many buys in the average price bracket - rather than these despicable "trophy signings" - along with cheap buys, coupled with lack of urgency in the recent window, has put us fairly and squarely into a relegation struggle. The first real worrying situation, with a lack of quality in the team and squad - since we got promoted in 1993 in fact. so in 03-04 you were happy with them because they had previously shown ambition. well i think ashley has shown that by forking out £250mill on his,as you see it "investment". he'll also know right now he would probably not get his money back and he'll need further investment to do that. do you know how much allardyce had in the summer to play with ? i don't, but you apparently do. No. I was disappointed they didn't buy players in the summer, but overall, 6 months earlier they brought Woodgate for 9m quid, who arguably may have went somewhere else if we hadn't had the foresight to get him first, and he may have cost more if we had waited until the summer. It is hardly rocket science to see that the club had stretched themselves to find this money in advance of the summer, on top of the money spent in the previous few years. An excellent piece of business in fact. So whats your problem, other than demanding the club spend more money - which it probably didn't have - only for people like you to criticise them for spending money they didn't have and going into debt. Makes me smile when people talk about hypocrisy, because this particular period and the above FACT [ie buying woodgate in advance of the summer and the fact that people don't recognise it for what it really was] is about as hypocritical as anything ever. No, I don't know how much Allardyce had. All I know is he was trumped for a couple of players he wanted [why ?] and none of the players we brought were hardly in the top quality bracket [why not ?]. But its people who are presuming he had loads of money that you should be asking this question, all the real indications are that he didn't have as much as what you want to believe. the stats included the woodgate signing didn't they ? they were for the 03-04 season and he signed in jan 03 my problem has always been that if someone better came along it would be better for the club....i believe that someone has come along. also i have no idea how much he could have spent and it was probably the usual reasons that we were trumped...ie the likes of chelsea came in for them

I wonder even more if things turn round by the summer, we spend big and start heading in the right direction next season, whether NE5 will be big enough to say "you lads were right to wait to see how things panned out, rather than dumping a skip-load of turd over the new regime at the first possible opportunity" I won't hold my breath though. Like I said earlier to you, how long have you supported the club [if you think the last decade has been s****] - have you replied BTW ? - I haven't supported this club for over 40 years and wanted them to fail [what a daft idea], I admire your optimism which I have had for all these years myself, but not your grasp of reality of the current situation I was here before Keegan if that answers your question, soo I've seen my share of incompetents in charge at Newcastle. Can't you recognise a sensible viewpoint without needing to check how long someone's supported the club? It doesn't seem so because just like you drag Fat Fred into every thread, you are always questioning everyone's opinion according to their age. Does it not occur to you that a thick t*** could still be a thick t*** even if he'd watched the town for 30 years? It certainly does occur to me. The proof is right here in this thread, anyone who says they supported the club in the 1980's and doesn't see how massively superior the club is in comparison, and the rise of the club during the years it was run by the Halls and Shepherd, has simply got to be not the brightest tool in the box don't think anyone is disagreeing with that but it was stagnating and needed fresh impetus.

no I didn't, because they had proved their ambition many times over and accepted the funds weren't there at the time [no real rocket science here mind] - and I wouldn't be hypocritical enough to have urged them to overspend then criticise for them for overspending ........ like numerous people who every time we lost were out in droves with the "splash the cash greedy fat b****** " etc etc What I'm saying now is too many buys in the average price bracket - rather than these despicable "trophy signings" - along with cheap buys, coupled with lack of urgency in the recent window, has put us fairly and squarely into a relegation struggle. The first real worrying situation, with a lack of quality in the team and squad - since we got promoted in 1993 in fact. so in 03-04 you were happy with them because they had previously shown ambition. well i think ashley has shown that by forking out £250mill on his,as you see it "investment". he'll also know right now he would probably not get his money back and he'll need further investment to do that. do you know how much allardyce had in the summer to play with ? i don't, but you apparently do.

i wonder if NE5 was calling for the head of fat fred in 03-04 and 04-05 for the pathetic level of backing he gave then ?

Have a f****** word. You don't even live here IIRC so wind your neck in. What the f*** has that got to do with it? Born in Wallsend and lived there for 23 years. I certainly understand economic regeneration and you clearly dont so why dont you wind your neck in. EDIT - I also travel back to the area around 12 times a year on average, spending time in the most economically deprived area in the whole region. So you pay a visit now and then, big f****** deal. There is nowt wrong with my comments on the City. The regeneration was needed and has been a positive as I've noted, but the more the City centre thrives, the less the rest does it seems. I just wish the Guardian would go deep into Newcastle and write a story about it, put it this way it would be a lot less pleasent reading than the above bollocks. I assume you are referring to your post. Unbelievable. On the one hand saying the city needs regenerating and on the other saying that i cant comment on it as i moved away (clearly for economic reasons). Hypocrisy or just idiocy? Perhaps both in this case. Pay a visit? Yes, to go to the match, more than you do. I said wind your neck in not because you don't have a right to comment about regeneration but because you have no right to pour scorn on my views which are deep rooted and at least, unlike yourself, come from a daily understanding of things given I live, work and play in the kind of neglected run down areas that I'm bemoaning, issues that don't effect you or issues you can't truly understand so pardon me when I take offence at some fucker saying "have a word". I said have a word because you were talking through your arse. You still are you patronising t***. About what, in what way? What is it you think I'm talking out of my arse about. That the City outside of the centre is falling a part or being neglected? That parts of this regeneration is misguided or unnecessary or that the City has lost a lot of it's character and virtues? Or was it the line "f*** the City centre" that offended you? hasn't it always been like that,the reputation of scotchy and elswick as dodgy areas go way back. the council can make the places look better but can do little about some of the shit that lives in it.

What's it like in Europe? Europe ? Now there's a memory. It's where that man who called you nasty names ran the club you say you support and played there more than any other chairman in the clubs history Fancy that eh mackems.gif d'you think we'd have got back into europe with a fat fred board ?

True, if you get a better player then you pay more in wages but I meant the income all going to the players rather than on transfers and wages. neither of which benefits the club or the fans

why? his last 2 clubs he hasn't been demed worthy a starting place....maybe it wasn't just us ?

Not if it's an increased transfer kitty. which needs bigger wages

same thing ?

oscar swarfega (diego's younger brother) should be available in the summer. his conratct with FC cilit is apparently down the toilet

Because the idea put forward by the media is that no club has a right to think of itself as being a bit different, more special, based on a different way of thinking than anyone else. Which is utter f****** s****. You obviously lap up whatever Martin Samuel wants to feed you. Do you boycott all of news international of just the sun? Apparently not as you seem to be just regurgitating his ill thought out and simplistic point of view. Clubs are different, fans are different, places have different affinities to their clubs. Bilbao, Napoli, Barcelona are just a few examples of why clubs are not created nor should be treated equally. It may seem a contradiction but you can only really see this when you are capable of objectively looking at the situation, rather than from a partisan point of view. Show me a Wigan fan who thinks they are just as special as Barcelona and i'll show you a retard. Good examples. More a way of life than a club. Cultural impact of such clubs and their hinterland is what makes them special. Those clubs are all intertwined with political strife though - Bilbao and the Spain / Basque issue, Napoli the Northern / Southern Italian economic and political divide, and Barcelona the Catalunya / Spanish issue. There are no English clubs which have this element to them - only Celtic and Rangers really have it in Britain. I'd tend to agree that these clubs are "more than football clubs" but that is because they are about more than football, not just because they've got lots of fans. Arsenal have lots of fans, and they're increasingly about little more than selling 'Premium Seats' and 8 quid portions of fish and chips to bankers and lawyers these days. i reckon newcastle/sunderland/leverpool have as much in that scheme as napoli for the same reasons you ascribe to napoli.. the celtic/rangers thing i don't understand as they are scottish man utd's

It's not so strange, Shepherd had used up any goodwill a long time ago. If Ashley and Mort make blunder after blunder with their decision-making they'll soon find support dwindling just like the old board. In the meantime you can either buy in and see if they deliver, or you can decide they don't know what they are doing and hark back to the Shepherd glory years. the hilarious thing about this, is you seem to have convinced yourself that the new board have done better already I'm not convinced of anything, but will give the benefit of the doubt until I know better. If you can tell me for definite that we are doomed to failure next season under the new regime and why I'll listen, otherwise your conjecture's no better than mine really. Except, mine isn't "opinion". The highest 3 consecutive league positions in 50 years is a FACT AND NOT OPINION As is also the FACT that only 4 clubs have qualified for europe more than us in the last decade, and also in the last 15 years. Your "opinion" may tell you different if you like but I prefer to go by facts. Cheers Have we been here before? and your "opinion" is that these facts aren't facts, correct ? mackems.gif true enough they are facts,as is the fact we'd been going backwards at a fair old pace for a couple of years. factalicious.

totally different as lerner (although he didn't own the club at the time) was the man behind getting o'neill in. Fair comment. The owner still removed (and a decent and vocal section of fans contributed to that action) one of the most successful British managers with a background of building a modern infrastructure at a club before giving him enough time to make an impact on the club or the team. I can see why he did it, and I can understand why the fans weren't more patient with Allardyce too, I just happen to think it was the wrong move. oh he made an impact all right

at the same time if clubs were limited in how many they could have they may not go for the mediocre foreigners but keep there allocation for the special.