Wullie

How quickly things changed the minute we were actually in Europe. Happens to almost every club in our position. What does? EDIT: someone fix that quote will you? Fucking phone.

Nah, I disagree. All of the teams that you've mentioned there can negate stability by throwing money at the problem and can still fail, relatively speaking. Stability for us/Everton/Villa etc is clearly important to an extent if you can see things are going in the right direction, you have the right manager, or there are genuine, substantial factors that are out of control and can be attributed to under-performances. I don't think there's any need to look past Pardew just simply being completely the wrong manager. Stability means something, it just means nothing if, for example, it's the equivalent of your parents fighting every day but staying unhappily married. I'm not sure Spurs fall into that category.

I can only assume a lot of people felt quite embarrassed at the reputation we got for chopping and changing managers so often, binning them four games in etc. Couldn't care less me, more bothered about being able to win games. If they're clearly not the right man, bin them, regardless of whether you figure that after fifteen games or five hundred.

I hate that word in football, stability. It doesn't even mean anything. Surely being two places off relegation with four games to go is the very definition of unstable. For every Man United, there's a Chelsea, for Arsenal there's Spurs. Fucking Bayern Munich have been through a manager a year for the past six frigging years, and we think we're the clever ones for putting an idiot in charge and giving him a long contract. Jesus fucking Christ man. EDIT: Bayern not quite that bad, I counted caretakers, but still one every couple of seasons.

Was thinking about this before, we'd be on the same points as QPR & Reading. Ba was a big loss tbf. But yes. He was but it's hardly like we'd been any better off this season when he was here. When he was sold we were at the back end of the worst run of form in about 40 years!

I kinda feel sorry for him in a way, all the time he was at Barca loads of people wen't on about how easy it was for him managing the likes of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta etc and now he's going to the team absolutly dominating their league and in with a decent chance of winning the champions league. He knew what he was doing.

Imagine if we hadn't signed them man, just imagine. We'd genuinely have been down weeks ago with a squad that finished 5th last time. And some people still want him to stay.

top 10 easy Needs a couple more players imo.

Aye, proper Cabaye-esque.

Bet he definitely wishes he hasn't finished fifth like. Not just the Europa League but raised expectations too, in a job where he knew he'd be safe coming in tenth. He's hoping we've forgotten though. The "a few signings and we could break the top ten" patter is absolutely lifting.

Bayern are fucking incredible off the ball.

Incidentally while I was checking the Brighton quotes, saw one from him on .com after that game: "The (FA) Cup usually leads only to disappointment because, somewhere along the line, you get knocked out" All season long he's been like the Grim fucking Reaper. Reading or listening to it is like the bit in Father Ted when he hears Radiohead on the bus.

Didn't realise it would be quite so stark, they've barely spent a penny (net). Of course the issue in the Premier League isn't necessarily how good your team is but how deep your squad is. That's why it's critically important to have a good youth set-up and to have a manager who is adept at integrating those youngsters into the first team. In many ways that is the most damning indictment of Pardew's management - his management of the young players has been absolutely abominable and him hoying them all into the frying pan against Brighton and against Bruges and them blaming them for performing like shite was fucking disgraceful. He bangs the drum on a regular basis about needing his strongest team to be able to perform at a level even approaching acceptable - quite apart from the fact that he can't even manage that when he pretty much does have that team, they are the words of a man admitting he is not up to Premier League management right there.

How can you say we can't compete with Spurs but can with Arsenal when the two have been neck and neck for years now? Arsenal are the elephant in the room when people talk about needing spending power to get up there and stay there. They're a very rich club (pay good wages, even if that wage structure is very flawed) but never ever near the top of the transfer fees league table, usually right down at the bottom - yet they're looking good for 17 consecutive CL qualifications. That is what a great manager and a fantastic youth policy can do. Have Dortmund spent money comparable to City/Chelsea (genuine question, I have no idea)? We all know Barcelona's top players are mainly produced on their own patch. Money isn't the be-all and end-all but certainly the Premier League thinks that it is, and that's why it's important we shouldn't be defeatist, because it is do-able without a Sheikh.

I am pro-Pardew in that I think he has some good attributes and my opinion right now is that I wouldn't sack him for that reason and others not to do with him personally. That's not sitting on the fence, that's a position that it takes a bit of intelligence to understand. Better chat today anyway How utterly condescending, nice one. You go on like that and then you have the gall to moan and say the place has degenerated when people say "I told you so" after a fucking hammering off the mackems. Well how long should I explain and re-explain the same position? Obviously some people are ignoring it on purpose, which is fair enough I suppose. Why don't you tell us what his good attributes are? You're happy to pour consistent scorn on the opinions of others yet I've never heard you explain exactly what it is about "Pards" that you like so much. I've had my say on tactics, coaching, fitness, the utter shit he talks 100% of the time etc. The floor is yours. Why, in your opinion, is he the man to get NUFC playing exciting and successful football? I don't pour scorn on anyone's opinions, in fact that's exactly what I try not to do. It just gets tiring trying to explain the same position again and again and dispel myths about my views all the time. Sometimes I get dragged into the wrong sort of debate I suppose. I'm not sure it's worth me listing any positive points, but they include stuff like being able to work with the board, being liked by the players, having achieved a decent amount last season, being generally a professional figurehead for the club (less so when under pressure I admit). Also a lack of desire to get back on the managerial merry-go-round. But we have discussed those to death already and I know you'll just laugh at them. I don't necessarily think he will get us playing exciting football, I don't think I've ever argued that. But he might get us playing football that is generally solid but produces enough exciting moments to make a good season. Anyway, in general I think you're a really sound poster but I wish we could have a normal chat without it getting antsy. It's not a question of laughing at them, they're simply not things I care about in a football manager. I don't care about a figurehead, or that the players like him, and I certainly could not care less about either a managerial merry-go-round or what he did last season - Spurs finished in a Champions League spot () but knew that Redknapp couldn't take them any further - you would have thought they were mental to do that if you didn't dislike Redknapp. I would have been over the moon for us to have done the same last summer, absolutely jumping for joy, to try and improve from a winning position instead of what we always do, trying to salvage something from a losing one. I want a manager who attacks teams, who thinks that the way to win games is to score more than the other team, but also has the tactical nous to do something different when he has to, who can mix the play up to avoid predictability and who is extremely positive in attitude. That is not and will never be Pardew. You're probably right, we're never going to agree on the issue because we're coming from completely different starting positions. I've said this before because people say I'm "negative" when in truth I'm one of the most positive people on here because I think the ultimate aim should be to win the title while it's actually those who claim to be optimists that will generally be pleased as punch to finish 8th. A decent season where we play solid uninspiring football but with some exciting moments is simply not what I want from NUFC. Unrealistic? Possibly. Some Spurs fans would probably have said the same ten years ago but they keep edging closer. They'll more than likely never get there but at least they're having a go.

Laudrup will be perfectly aware that there's a glass ceiling at Swansea and that he's probably already bashed his head off it. I'd absolutely love to have him. With the greatest of respect, no manager is going to turn down NUFC to stay at Swansea.

I am pro-Pardew in that I think he has some good attributes and my opinion right now is that I wouldn't sack him for that reason and others not to do with him personally. That's not sitting on the fence, that's a position that it takes a bit of intelligence to understand. Better chat today anyway How utterly condescending, nice one. You go on like that and then you have the gall to moan and say the place has degenerated when people say "I told you so" after a fucking hammering off the mackems. Well how long should I explain and re-explain the same position? Obviously some people are ignoring it on purpose, which is fair enough I suppose. Why don't you tell us what his good attributes are? You're happy to pour consistent scorn on the opinions of others yet I've never heard you explain exactly what it is about "Pards" that you like so much. I've had my say on tactics, coaching, fitness, the utter shit he talks 100% of the time etc. The floor is yours. Why, in your opinion, is he the man to get NUFC playing exciting and successful football?

I am pro-Pardew in that I think he has some good attributes and my opinion right now is that I wouldn't sack him for that reason and others not to do with him personally. That's not sitting on the fence, that's a position that it takes a bit of intelligence to understand. Better chat today anyway How utterly condescending, nice one. You go on like that and then you have the gall to moan and say the place has degenerated when people say "I told you so" after a fucking hammering off the mackems.

Ever the diplomat Whey it's true isn't it? Generally we would be slating Liverpool or Sunderland fans if they were after sacking a manager in this manner. Most of us were sick when Sunderland sacked MON and the bloke was having a better season than Pardew. Fair point, in that individual case. On the other hand, O'Neill hadn't been manager of the year the previous season and finished 5th. He also had a vastly inferior squad though. Pardew finished 5th with what was pretty much the 7th best squad in the league, Chelsea and Liverpool arguably the only squads that were better than hours but of course those poor sods had those nasty European competitions to worry about as well. OK, but the point is that Pardew had demonstrated something in getting the team to finish 5th. Whether it was a top 7 squad or a top 10 squad or a top 6 squad I've no idea really. I just assumed that the people on the outside that you were talking about were competent enough to look at things with basic logic, and not just "manager finish 5th, manger must never get sack". Well aye, I'm not saying only the league position would be used. But it's also fair to assume that it's quite difficult/rare to fluke your way to 5th in the premier league, so therefore some correct decisions must have been made along the way. Didn't Allardyce finish 6th twice? I wouldn't claim it was a fluke but it is a) clearly not sustainable and b) absolutely not what I want to watch.

Ever the diplomat Whey it's true isn't it? Generally we would be slating Liverpool or Sunderland fans if they were after sacking a manager in this manner. We (and Bird) know about Pardew from the inside though. A sligthly random observation, Ian. It's not really random, the point is that sometimes fans can be too passionate about their own club and react extremely to things. Anyway, it's kind of irrelevant to whether you think he should or shouldn't be sacked I suppose. I'd tend to lay more trust in a fan who knows what's actually going on, rather than a random bloke who just knows our positions in the table these last seasons. Maybe you're right, all I would say is that we get caught up in the emotion and the shorter-term than outside observers. Case in point, this forum degenerating so badly after the derby game. It's not right or wrong necessarily, I just wanted to discuss how it can look to outsiders. How did it degenerate? Just because people insulted "Pards"? FFS. Not being funny, I've got no doubt whatsoever that you'd back him all the way down the divisions Ian. You won't call for his head if and when he relegates us, guaranteed.

Even crazier when these people can list a number of reasons he should be sacked in their own article that's supposed to be a defence of him. At least I assume Simon Bird was trying to defend him - It could just be a parody. The world isn't Pardew defenders and Pardew haters FFS, he is pointing out things he has done wrong. Admitting he has done things wrong is part of a reasonable assessment of the situation, he obviously has. Eh? That part was him trying to back Pardew. That it came across as criticism just emphasises how bad he is - the best thing anyone can say about him is that he attempted to correct some of his own horrendous errors.

Ever the diplomat Whey it's true isn't it? Generally we would be slating Liverpool or Sunderland fans if they were after sacking a manager in this manner. We'd think Liverpool were foolish for sacking a bloke who nearly/might still get them relegated? You're a fucking maniac. Btw sunderland did it three weeks ago and my first reaction was "oh shit we're in trouble now"

Nobody wants any of that, obviously. Some people just think he should be given another chance. And last season might have not been perfect, but dreary is an absolutely insane description of it. A "chance"? I didn't realise we were running a charity. If a player is shit for a whole season, you don't give them a chance and start them in every game the next on the off chance. We'll have to agree to disagree on last season. Results were good, I'll give you that. That's not hindsight or rewriting history, as you well know because I said it was dross and you defended it all season on the basis of nothing other than "5th!" Now we're 16th and you're still on board. Thoroughly bizarre.

Anyone who says they're open to the idea of him staying can have no complaints when players like Cabaye leave, when we get another kicking in the derby and when the "I told you so's" are raining down on them like. Why the fuck would anyone want to watch another year of dreary negativity? Two has been more than enough.