UV

What do you think about the possibility of us spending £10 million net? Do you think a £10 million net spend is poor? I think that while only a few years ago £10m net would have had you in the top 4 or 5 spenders, this year I'd guess there'll only be 4 or 5 premiership clubs which don't spend at least around that. Last year there were only 7 clubs which spent less than £8m, and 2 of them were Arsenal & Chelsea due to a couple of high value sales.

We lost out on a transfer which was seemingly not motivated by the players ambition (all done by his owner/agent) to a club allegedly offering a lower transfer fee and lower wages, and you find that promising?

You think around a £10m net spend this year will be a successful transfer window, or are you judging it on other things? I don't care how much we spend if we get the players in that Keegan wants. He obviously wanted Gutierrez and he's potentially cost us naff all. It obviously follows that the best players cost the most, I clearly accept that. I'll just not get caught up in comparing the spend. How are you going to judge it is what I'm getting at. Obviously Keegan is not going to come out and say "The players we bought this Summer are pretty average. Everyone I really wanted turned us down and we had to go for Dennis' 4th or 5th choices." I will agree that it's harder to quantify these days, and more money which would normally go into transfer fees will now go into wages instead (this is why I'm concerned about the talk of cutting the wage bill - although I'm not judging yet as at the moment it is just talk). However I would still expect us to be spending as much if not more than our supposed current rivals (other UEFA place challenging teams), all of whom, barring Spurs, have a much lower turnover than we do. and they were wrong to be delighted. Personally I was reasonably satisfied considering the circumstances. I'm expecting (although hoping for might be more apt) much more this Summer.

You think around a £10m net spend this year will be a successful transfer window, or are you judging it on other things?

No point anymore, they can just walk away after 3 years anyway. Can look forward to contract renegotiations for all players every year from now on.

Who cares if the transfer is murky or not? Not suggesting in the slightest that we have, but to be so glib about it is pretty ignorant. I'd guess this part of article 17 stopped any chance of him going to Portsmouth after he broke his contract. I guess Gutierrez will have to pay half the compensation to Mallorca and half to Velez. It will probably drag on like N'Zogbia's transfer, but shouldn't affect us directly.

I don't think that's true at all. BTW. The old board were probably thinking about this when they gave everyone high wages. Way ahead of their time they were. Spurs are gonna be stuffed, what with their 1K/week wage ceiling.

That's not how it reads to me. See section 41 - seems to be part original transfer fee, part old & new wages (bonuses are tricky and subject to negotiation), and part "sports related damage caused to the club, blah, blah, blah" which could amount to anything really. Not sure we're officially allowed to do that though, otherwise it could be seen as if we were inducing him to leave in the first place?

Anyone know whether we officially hold his registration until the legalities are resolved? ie could this drag on and we're not able to play him? Not sure at all. If they're after compensation, that suggests that they've accepted he's actually gone but they want some £££ to soften the blow. If they could hold on to his registration I think they'd have already threatened to. Just guessing though - I could be totally wrong. They can't do anything anyway, it's EU law now that players can buy themselves out of a contract if they have 2 or less years remaining on their contract it's just he's only the third so they probably just want to have a go at getting some money on the off chance nobody really understands it. If he's bought himself out of his contract they have to release his registration. The amount of the compensation is not straightforward though, so unless the player & club agree amicably (obviously not the case here) it will at least have to go to some arbitration panel if not to court. Just wondering whether or not we can play him until it's resolved. I'd imagine we can as he was technically a free agent and then signed for us. The only thing that is in dispute is the amount his former club should recieve. This could be similar to the N'Zogbia situation. I think that's probably right like, just wondering if anyone knew for sure. Of course, if he refuses to pay the compensation (say it turns out to be more than the "undisclosed fee" we gave him), FIFA could ban him.

Anyone know whether we officially hold his registration until the legalities are resolved? ie could this drag on and we're not able to play him? Not sure at all. If they're after compensation, that suggests that they've accepted he's actually gone but they want some £££ to soften the blow. If they could hold on to his registration I think they'd have already threatened to. Just guessing though - I could be totally wrong. They can't do anything anyway, it's EU law now that players can buy themselves out of a contract if they have 2 or less years remaining on their contract it's just he's only the third so they probably just want to have a go at getting some money on the off chance nobody really understands it. If he's bought himself out of his contract they have to release his registration. The amount of the compensation is not straightforward though, so unless the player & club agree amicably (obviously not the case here) it will at least have to go to some arbitration panel if not to court. Just wondering whether or not we can play him until it's resolved.

Anyone know whether we officially hold his registration until the legalities are resolved? ie could this drag on and we're not able to play him?

Can we change the thread title to be a more accurate "The 'one signing I know nothing about gives me free license to gloat' thread"

Replacement for Milner?

With the threat of prison looming over him if he remotely steps out of line, I'd say he was less likely to do something like this again than ever before (for the next 2 years at least). I'd guess we'll see a model pro after this actually, although I don't deny he's now stereotyped for life and almost anything he does or says will be turned into a negative causing bad press for himself and by consequence whichever club he ends up playing for, and anything he is rumoured to have done will be instantly fact (see Bellamy). Despite what a lot of you seem to be suggesting Barton isn't some thug who enjoys going out looking for fights and then brags about it to his mates, he's a bloke with a serious anger management problem which he acknowledges and gets treatment for. He was stupid to get himself in this situation knowing he would be the target of provocation on a night out like that and knowing that he can't control himself, and he's paying the price for that stupidity. Anyone who thinks Barton is getting off with a lighter punishment than a normal person is as mental as he is tbh. How many people who get into a scrap like this will have it hanging over them for the rest of their lives as Barton will? How many will have every wannabe hard man they meet trying to wind them up? How many will have the nation's press on their back following them around and looking for the slightest thing to put them in a bad light? How many will be forever pre-judged by the moral majority no matter how much they try to change their nature? Barton's serving his legal punishment, and will continue to be punished once he gets out. Doesn't seem to hurt Chelsea or Man U. Different type of cuntishness, but the principal's the same.

...but soon, and for the rest of your life.

They should have cards for it tbh. Happy transfer window opening day cards. The Apprentice lot missed a trick here. Send one to your owner telling him how much he should be spending, one to your Executive Director (Football) telling him who you think he should sign, one to your chairman/MD telling him to sack the players you don't like, and one to your manager asking if he had a nice holiday.

Goalie isn't he? He can save miraculously at times, but gets crucified on crosses.

There's a difference between an innocent victim and someone who is looking for trouble. This wasn't just some random bloke who happened to be passing. Of course we don't see the whole 11 minutes of CCTV or the bit where this bloke allegedly assaulted the girl. Of course, noone is condoning his reaction, but some of you must have lived very sheltered lives if this footage has made you think worse of Barton after knowing he was sentenced to 6 months in prison for the incident. What were you expecting? I expected it to be much worse than that tbh, Barton got a couple of decent hits in and the rest was nothing. If we locked everyone up who got involved in a bit of a scrap like this, we'd have to build up Hadrian's wall and use Scotland as one big open prison. Dozens of incidents worse than this happen in every city in the country every weekend. I really can't believe the girl got a suspended sentence for throwing a few chips at the bloke.

Hey look. I found a table where Spurs are already in the CL places http://www.purelymancity.com/wp-content/5yearspendingcomparison.jpg

Present tense? Aye, a bit Also past perfect and future conditional IYAM.

Of course. Show me where I've ever said Shepherd did everything right, in fact show me ANY poster who has that opinion. I've certainly not seen one on here. However there most certainly are posters who will never accept that Shepherd did anything right.

For your information Mr. UV, my post did also mention that, "And overall, is the successes/progressions on par value with the other clubs?" I hope you did manage to read my entire post and that statement in particular. I did intentionally worded it in such manner for your infomation. Assuming that you do manage to take into account that statement, if you want to compare ourselves to the likes of Middleborough, Sunderland... of course the successes/progressions is on par value with those clubs or even of greater value. However, if you regard us as comparable to Manchester United, Arsenal and Liverpool... what do you say? Do I need to answer that for you? Where do you think our club should be comparable to? Also, let us not forget that the club was previously a Champions League club, it was one of the more feared club in the English Premier League but for the past few seasons, our performance in the table had been dwindling. Granted, it may be the old board that brought us there however they have outlived their efficiency and effectiveness and can no longer keep the club competitive. It would be more respectful and desirable if they decide to change the board themselves to rejuvenate the club but they didn't. It's not our fault that to this stage, they were being indirectly forced out. I think we already gave them enough face and likewise, their achievements are already appropriately placed in the record books and trophy room. I seriously hope that you don't think of us as Middleborough, Sunderland counterparts etc. We can only be the best if we compare with the best, not with some second raters. Aiming to oust second raters, we will still be second raters. We must have the hunger and ambition to be at the top with whatever means which is legally available. Simple question. Do you think the achievements I posted were not good enough? Do you expect Ashley to better them in the next 5 years (I'm letting him off with last year as a transitional year myself), and in fact to compete with Manchester United, Arsenal and Liverpool? If so, that's why I posted "Good luck Mike." If you do have that expectation, then good on you, however most other posters seem to have a greatly reduced expectation of Newcastle under Ashley than they did of Newcastle under Shepherd.

Well that's your opinion, but I'll refer you back to the period 98-02 which was similar (worse) than what we were going through and which we recovered from to get into the Champions League. I'm curious, but at that at that time did you recommend that we not spend on players such as Robert, Bellamy, Jenas, Viana, Woodgate? Exactly. And as he wasn't the worst chairman ever, he must have done everything right! It's only monstrous ill-luck that saw us win nowt and, over the last ten years, end up in the bottom half of the table more often as not. Great contributions to the discussion, thanks. Why not just post a picture of a scarecrow next time to save typing.

They have a bigger turnover mostly because they are regularly in the CL. What happens when (not if btw) that stops? Edit: They currently have a £300m debt which costs over £20m/year to service. Their wage bill is around £15m more than ours (probably more now). On a good year for them, and a poor year for us, they make around £30m more than us. How come they're fine but we were in financial meltdown. it doesn't matter what the reason is for thir larger turnover. and my guess is that if they went a couple of yeras outside the champs league they would stop spending the way they have been. please point out where i said we were in "financial meltdown". all i've ever stated is that we couldn't keep on racking up debt the way we were. I'm sure they would. Just as I'm sure we would have cut back if we went a couple of years outside the UEFA if we were reliant on that income. If you don't think we were destined for bankruptcy, then I'm glad you agree with myself, NE5 and others; you appeared to be agreeing with those posters who, along with Mort, do believe this (or say they believe this anyway).

I hope he'll not be the automatic first choice, and I hope he'll accept that.