Montey

Won’t cost him a penny. It’ll cost the club, not him. He's desperate to cash out now, enough to send the lawyers against the Premier League. Not sure he'll get his 300 million in the Championship. I wonder if MA could complete the sale in the EFL, but then sue the EPL to recover the lost difference in the value of the sale.

History has shown that the teams and players that succeed are the ones that work the hardest, both on the field and off the field. We've all seen that player who turned up to training early, stayed late, practiced at home, and trained on weekends who then went on to do really well. The same has been proven in general life, that effort contributes more to professional success than skill, intelligence, or connections. It is very apparent that Steve Bruce is old, fat, and lazy in both mind and body. He thinks the best way to have a happy team is to give the team lots of time off, but I bet Alex Ferguson didn't give his squad 3 days a week off - but (most of the time) his teams were happy, because they were winning.

I think sometimes Rafa is motivated by money and sometimes he is not. There are many leading film stars who will do low-budget, art films that they do for enjoyment, career development, and ego reasons between the movies they do that make them vast sums of money. I suspect that sometimes Rafa does jobs for money, because who doesn't like money, but I think he also does some jobs for ego. I think his stint at NUFC was more about his ego - could he awaken the NUFC sleeping giant where others couldn't, could he get his name in the pantheon of historic Premier League managers by achieving what Bobby Robson couldn't (e.g. winning silverware)?

I've just been doing some comparisons between the 2020/21 season Premier League table, with previous seasons as at the same date, to see what the relegation battle looks like and where #NUFC is positioned (the TL;DR is that we're in a better position than previous years. As at 7th Feb: 2020/21 Season, 18th Position = Fulham @ 15 points; NUFC is in 16th, but 10 points clear of 18th 2019/20 Season, 18th Position = West Ham @ 24 points; NUFC was in 12th, but only 7 points clear of 18th 2018/19 Season, 18th Position = Cardiff @ 22 points; NUFC was 15th, but only 2 points clear of 18th So whilst our league position, this year, looks dire (as it was at the same time during the 18/19 season) we're actually in a far stronger position. The bottom 3 this season (Fulham, West Brom', and Sheffield) are having atrocious seasons. Whilst relegation is still definitely possible for NUFC and being in a relegation battle is still very much the case, the data doesn't lie, NUFC is in a far stronger position (relegation battle wise) than we were at the same time in the previous 2 seasons. Data courtesy of https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/

Bruce has achieved something, at NUFC, that I find truly remarkable. He has made me pine for the management of Alan Pardew!

This part of the Twitter thread has a key statement that aligns with my thinking: To my thinking, if PIF were to do the things they were planning to do (bring back Rafa or another high-quality manger; invest in quality players) then a season in the Championship would result in a highly probable promotion at the first attempt and would only delay PIF's plans for the club in the PL by one year. Assuming PIF's plans for NUFC are 10-20 years (i.e. it's not a short term investment) then a one year delay would be annoying but nowhere near devastating. Any business with long term investment plans knows (and has experienced) delays to projects that push timelines out (sometimes by many years). So a single year delay to their NUFC project would not phase them very much, in my opinion.

It looks like Amanda's accountant has been busy with paperwork this week. Just standard, uninteresting, reporting stuff; but a few takeover related entities are active on Companies House.

No, it's just an annual filing requirement.

Yes, if you move your caravan from a nice street to a shit street it is worth less. But, if you then move your caravan back to the nice street it recovers its original value.

I don't fully accept the idea that if we go down into the Championship any takeover would be off. Surely, if an incoming new owner was buying the club as a long term investment (as professed to be the case for PIF) then a drop to the Championship, during or just before a takeover, would be viewed as a minor speedbump? They would just come in and replace Steve Bruce, which they're going to do anyway, and buy new/better players, which they're going to do anyway, and then be confident of returning to the Premier League at the conclusion of the following season. I don't even buy the argument "but good players wouldn't want to play a season in the Championship." In the first few seasons of any takeover any incoming players will be coming for the money they can make, not for the prestige of playing for NUFC. Even if we stayed up, we're not going to be winning our way to silverware or European competitions in the first season or two, so any new players are going to be attracted to the club either for the longer term journey or because the new owners are prepared to pay a premium - this means that a single season in the Championship is not going to deter them. So, to conclude, my point is, if PIF want NUFC then I don't think the prospect of a single season in the Championship will deter them.

Just stay out of this thread then. Instead of telling others what to believe. You're just annoying. This is something I don't understand about those who keep, persistently, posting in this thread that any takeover is dead - if they believe that, why do they keep coming back to this thread? Surely, if one believes that there is no active takeover activity then it would be a complete waste of time reading this thread unless the subject changed to indicate a new development. So, therefor, I can only assume that those repeatedly commenting (in this thread) that the takeover is not happening are just trolls - which is why I ignore them completely. I don't agree that they should be banned from the forum (I hope they've got something other than trolling to contribute to other threads) but it would be nice if there was the ability to temporarily suspend an account that is trolling a thread (just to give everyone a break from their persistent negativity).

Question: Why now? If he was resigning "out of respect" due to the NUFC takeover why didn't he resign shortly after the takeover was revealed, was very alive, and even seemed imminent? Why would he wait until many months after the takeover is allegedly dead and not progressing? The timing of this resignation and it's reasoning don't make sense to me.

Looks happy enough to still own the club there like. Looks happy enough with a lucky point that keeps us away from a relegation fight which might stall the club's sale. He is attending all our matches now, as it is his "last hurrah". He desperately wants the deal to go through soon, but he knows he will 'miss it' on some level, so is attending matches as the owner, while he can. I understand that, human nature. Absolute stunning levels of guesswork passed off as fact there Our very own, Sensationalist/Clickbaitist. For goodness sake (this is me being polite . . . ) why on earth do you respond with such DRIVEL? I'm expressing my "opinion", it is not "Guesswork"' and it is not "Fact", it is what I think based on my own knowledge of human nature. I think I am right, it's a pretty 'basic' example of normal straightforward behaviour (basic human nature) but feel free to "spout drivel" about it if you like !! Oh, and it is not "Sensationalist/Clickbaitist" either, whatever the f**k that is! For f**ks sake, some of you . . . I find you quite entertaining, keep doing you, my guy. This. We aren't a police state (yet) ffs. I live in Melbourne - yes we are!

The bit of this statement that I find interesting is the specific naming of Richard Masters. A statement like this would normally be considered a shot-across-the-bow, as a precursor to potential litigation; a mechanism to let the opposing side know that you're sufficiently pissed off and believe that if they don't start acting reasonably you have a good basis for suing them. With the PL rejecting the takeover, I am not surprised (to any extent) that a statement like this would be made by NUFC towards the PL. But, naming Richard Masters directly is saying that NUFC believes that not only has the League not "acted appropriately", but that Richard Masters personally has also not "acted appropriately" - this could be interpreted as tantamount to an accusation of personal corruption by Richard Masters. So, making this statement could be seen as not only a threat by Ashley and the buying consortium towards the PL, but them also threatening Richard Masters personally. It will be interesting to see what sort of statement(s) come out of the PL over the next few days. I fully expect that PL will make a statement, saying (along the lines of) "the League acted, at all times, within the constraints of the O&D test and did so following all correct procedures. If NUFC disagrees with the decision then they may use the appeals process." What I am really interested in seeing is if we see a statement from Masters (or on Masters' behalf) rejecting any suggestion that he has, personally, acted inappropriately.

You are not alone. I have almost totally checked out and will likely remain this way until Ashley is gone. I'll check in from time to time to see how shit our performances have been or to find out about the latest controversy or club scandal, but it'll be at a much lower tempo to previous years (decades).

I thought it was common knowledge that this was dead and buried? This is Ashley saying hurry up. This leak makes absolutely no sense if all parties have already moved on after the Saudi withdrawal. Think it's also interesting that it's come from the PA and not one of the National rags that Ashley usually leaks to. I sometimes wonder how people here feel Ashley is evil and the Saudis angel. This people pull out cause they disrespect them by not automatically approved them. They dont give a shit if Ashely say hurry up or whatever. Learn about the MBS before commenting idiotic Ashley said hurry up. No one can tell anyone to MBS. I don't think it is as black and white as you paint it, for many people (including myself). The way I view it is: - Mike Ashley is evil and is making the club I support shit (I suspect if MA was a Saudi prince, he'd be just as evil as MBS)! - MBS is evil but will make the club I support not be shit! So, in either case I have someone who is evil owning my club. But, at least the Saudi option will make it enjoyable to be a NUFC supporter.

Being involved in day-to-day running is not the object of the test. It's all about control which is defined as: “Control” means the power of a Person to exercise, or to be able to exercise or acquire, direct or indirect control over the policies, affairs and/or management of a Club, whether that power is constituted by rights or contracts (either separately or in combination) and having regard to the considerations of fact or law involved, and, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, Control shall be deemed to include: (a) the power (whether directly or indirectly and whether by the ownership of share capital, by the possession of voting power, by contract or otherwise including without limitation by way of membership of any Concert Party) to appoint and/or remove all or such of the members of the board of directors of the Club as are able to cast a majority of the votes capable of being cast by the members of that board; and/or (b) the holding and/or possession of the beneficial interest in, and/or the ability to exercise the voting rights applicable to, Shares in the Club (whether directly, indirectly (by means of holding such interests in one or more other persons) or by contract including without limitation by way of membership of any Concert Party) which confer in aggregate on the older(s) thereof 30 per cent or more of the total voting rights exercisable at general meetings of the Club. For the purposes of the above, any rights or powers of a Nominee for any Person or of an Associate of any Person or of a Connected Person to any Person shall be attributed to that Person PIF would have to prove objectively that their governance is entirely separate and outside the influence of MBS/KSA (which is in effect the same thing). I think that is a very hard argument to prove. Why would no Saudi law firm take up the PL in their attempts to combat BeOutQ? How can any Saudi body of wealth (let alone one legally benefiting the state) be independent in the light of MBS' previous actions? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017-19_Saudi_Arabian_purge) So when PIF present a verdict from the Saudi court saying PIF is independent, it really carries zero weight. I'm guessing here, but in my view it is likely the PL made the PIF-MBS connections very quickly (it should take less than a minute if you go on their website- www.pif.gov.sa/en/Pages/Boradmembers.aspx) and the consortium then spent time trying to find various alternate ways around the inevitable, ultimately unsuccessfully. And FWIW, in the example you gave yes Charles would be considered a Director for the purposes of the test unless his ownership was through a sufficiently independent trust structure to convince the PL he would not be able to place influence over the club. It's not uncommon for monarchs to be considered beneficial owners of assets and be subject to financial crime monitoring as anyone else could be- in fact they are usually required to be subject to enhanced measures vs the man in the street. "Control" is absolutely what it came down to. The bolded comment is something that a lot of people say "yeah, but" in response, but can't actually deny. So maybe it "should" have been rejected, but it was never getting approved. The one reason I don't agree with this is because (in my opinion) it's easily resolved. The Premier League could have made the approval conditional on there being no evidence of MBS (or anyone else the PL doesn't like) influencing the operation of the club. The O&D Test is, allegedly, run every year for each club in the PL, so it would be easy for the PL to decide at a latter date that MBS had influenced the running of the club and to then eject NUFC out of the League. Having said this, it is possible that the PL attempted exactly this and it may have been what caused PIF to withdraw their involvement (viewing the naming of MBS in such a manner as being insulting).

Everyone needs to moderate their expectations of the Trust in this sort of scenario. Yes, we'd like the Trust to go into a meeting with the PL with all guns blazing, but there are consequences to doing that. The Trust wants to be a long term representative of NUFC fans to the club, the League, and to other parties that impact the lives of NUFC fans via their impact on the club. This means that in any action they undertake they have to be mindful of maintaining a working relationship with all of those other parties. If NUST had gone into this PL meeting, which was (as I understand it) not just NUST's meeting but was actually a meeting between all club fan groups and the PL, with all guns blazing then NUST would have likely burned any bridge they had to communicate with the league and would potentially have also pissed off the other supporter groups that were also in the meeting. So I am sure that how NUST handled this meeting was very much tempered by that concern. Now, this doesn't mean that NUST has to be super nice and give the PL only easy questions - it just means that any tougher questioning needs to be done very carefully. My personal opinion is that I think the NUST could have asked some better/more-robust questions (e.g. how an allegedly confidential process seemed to result in leaks that quite obviously came from someone with affiliations to the PL), but I am also understanding of why NUST could not ask anything as aggressively as many fans would like. I also think that NUST could be doing a bit more by way of liaising with other fans groups - highlighting that in the future this may be them, wishing for a dream buyout, only to find themselves in the same situation that NUFC fans have found themselves. NUST could even suggest that NUFC fans will be keen to see any other club subject to a future takeover bid being scrutinized to the same degree that PCP/Reubens/PIF were scrutinized (i.e. what goes around comes around). So in short, I think NUST could have asked some tougher questions - but fans need to moderate their expectations as to exactly how hard NUST can go whilst wanting to maintain a working relationship with the PL and the club. (Before anyone asks - I say this as a paid up life member of NUST.)

"Constructive" is just polite political speech for "we didn't punch each other."

I don't know the answer to this question. Given it seems evident that no matter how hard NUFC try, or even how competent any future owner may be, clubs that are not in the favored cartel will not be permitted to genuinely compete (i.e. they may be allowed an occasional dose of luck, but they won't be permitted to build any substantial long term success) I ask myself, "what's the point?" Sport is supposed to be the great equaliser - that whomever works the hardest and improves themselves the most will succeed. But, if the governing body has a finger in the game holding some teams back whilst favoring other teams then it's no longer sport - so what is the point? The greatest attraction of football, over other sports, is that it is supposed to be 11 vs 11 and the two competing clubs in a game have equal capability to attract, nurture, and develop the talent they need to win. When Abramovich bought Chelsea it skewed things significantly, as Chelsea went on a spending spree. We then saw other clubs get mega-rich owners come in and likewise buy themselves silverware. But, for other clubs hope remained that it was still an equal playing field insofar as they too might one day get bought by a rich oligarch and then be able to compete with the big clubs. But with the takeover of NUFC being denied (if not officially by word, then unofficially by action) the message has been sent, loud and clear, to all other clubs that they will never be permitted to compete on equal grounds with the cartel that runs the league. With that in mind I ask, "what is the point?"

Just as an FYI - on occasions I have had some NUST emails arrive 24-48 hours after they said it was sent (e.g. NUST say on Twitter it's been sent, but I don't receive it in my inbox until 24-48 hours later). I think the tool they're using to email their members may have some quirks which occasionally causes some delays in transmission.

I've been considering the need to write this for a few days and I now think it's necessary. I see a number of people on the forum(s), Twitter, and Facebook saying there is no point to the social media campaigning because it will not change the mind of the Premier League. They are actually correct, the social media campaign will not make the PL change there mind, and it is likely that the MP's getting involved won't either. But, that is not the point of the social media campaigning nor getting the MP's involved - but there is a purpose/strategy involved here and a reason why Staveley asked fans to get involved. In my opinion the buyers are hamstrung with regards to what further action they can take until the Premier League makes some sort of statement regarding the takeover not being approved and the reason why it was not approved. As long as the PL fail to make a formal decision the buyers are probably very limited in what else they can do; as long as the PL don't give a reason for failing the O&D Test then the buyers don't have a specific decision to dispute or, importantly, a specific decision they can argue against in a court room. I think this is why Staveley asked fans to start taking action. The mission of the social media campaigning and the letter writing to MPs is not to get the PL to change their mind, it is to try and force the PL to make a declaration that the buyers failed the O&D Test and why. Once the PL make a statement, saying that the buyers have failed the O&D Test and why, then the buyers have a basis for an appeal, and if that appeal fails to then they have a reason to take the PL to court and to get a court to order that the PL have not applied the O&D Test according to the rules of the PL. But, until the PL is forced to make such a statement the buyers have limited steps they can take. It is worth highlighting, however, that this is only about what the buyer can do. In my opinion, none of this has a bearing on any legal action that Ashley might take (on the basis of restraint of trade, natural justice, etc). But, ultimately, the strategy is to show the PL that whilst they may be concerned about what actions BeIN Sport might take they should be more concerned about where they find themselves in a scenario with Ashley, PIF, Staveley, and the Reubens teaming up against them in court actions. But, before PIF, Staveley, and the Reubens can push the legal angle they need something tangible to argue against. Which is why the social media and letter righting campaign is important, to pull the PL from hiding and to compell them to make a statement that PIF, Staveley, and the Reubens can use in a court room. Lastly, I just wanted to add, I think this is why the buyers also "officially" withdrew from the deal with Mike Ashley. The buyers didn't withdraw from the process Mike Ashley started by triggering the O&D Test with the Premier Leage, the buyers have only withdrawn from the agreement with Mike Ashley. This is likely with some level of agreement with Mike Ashley and I think it was to loosen the constraints of the NDA likely in place as part of the signed deal. By withdrawing from the deal with Ashley, the buyers are likely more able to communicate with interested parties to get other avenues moving (e.g. talking to NUST, etc). If things look like moving forward with the PL, then the deal between Ashley and the buyers will be re-established and the NDAs will be back in play.

I still struggle to believe Coca-Cola and the like are even noticing what's going on. The waves we're making aren't exactly gonna shake their boat. If you're not watching this stuff regularly (social media trends) you'd be very surprised about just how sensitive major brands are about their social media profile and to social media campaigns. If you look to the US market, especially, there are loads of brands that have removed products, changed product names, and issued grovelling apologies for past perceived sins all on the basis of a social media and write-in campaigning by small numbers of activists. For example, here's an article (https://justthenews.com/nation/culture/list-companies-changed-or-dropped-brands-amid-social-justice-movement#article) that discusses a number of major brands who are changing what they do due to a perception that what they are doing is socially no longer acceptable - yet when the general public is surveyd on these subjects it almost universally turns out that they don't care that much about the issues being addressed. If you're interested in knowing more about this type of activism, it generally comes under the heading of "cancel culture". A specific example of such a activist organisation is called "Sleeping Giants" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_Giants) they have caused hundreds (possibly thousands) of companies stop advertising on media outlets they don't like or on media programs they don't like. They have achieved this across a number of countries. When they've been researched by journalists it's been determined that they usually have a very small number of active people who are very good ate whipping up social media mobs and to convince companies that they are facing a tsunami of opposition (when in fact its a tiny minority). So, there is ample evidence that highly energetic social media campaigns, accompanied by write-in activism, petitions, and other actions, have been very successful in having large companies change in quite significant ways. Edit: I should add that more and more companies are now waking up to just how small these activist groups are, and how little influence they really have, and are increasingly telling the activists to bugger off. But most large companies are not there yet.

This is a good thread.

I really think the answer to this question is, to keep doing what is being done. Part of convincing the PL that they need to fix things is to show them that this will not go away with time - that they and their sponsors can't just ignore this anticipating that we'll lose interest in a few days. They need to see 4 weeks later that it's not dying down and it will go on and on until they act. Right now they will have advisors saying to them, "don't worry, give it a few days, and they'll get bored and stop - just look at their pathetic campaigns against Mike Ashley." They need to be shown that this advice is not correct - this requires persistence and determination. - Keep pushing the petition and see if it can get to 200,000 signatures. - Keep sending MPs letters, even changing the subject of letters to MPs to be along the lines of "the PL continues ignoring us, we urge the parliament to act." - Keep targeting PL social media. - Keep targeting PL sponsors' social media. - Keep targeting other PL clubs' social media. - Keep reaching out and pushing for support from popular personalities. - Keep digging and posting about compromised relationships and conflicts of interest within the PL. All of this impacts the PL (it's a marketing, brand value nightmare if nothing else) - we need to keep at it!