macca888

There was an article in the MAIL by Sale but it said very little. Certainly nothing of any major note other than some female CEO from an American charity wanting to meet Ashley. I thought our club was a basket case, not a charity case.

Bottled Dog exactly right. KK is suing the club, not Ashley and if he wins, it is going to be ultimately the club that suffers because Ashley will sell a player or two to pay if off in January. KK is not stupid, He will know this and consequently, his beloved NUFC will suffer. Personally, I think he will lose his case and the club may be reprieved from losing further players.

and people accuse me of degenerating this thread further. Jesus wept

Mate Speaking on behalf of a member of the more mature generation, I would say you are not alone in your assumptions.

Should be an interesting game. I can imagine them to be quite physical and hopefully, our passing game will have them running in circles. If we start like we did against Cardiff, I think we will win but if we allow them to physically bully us, we will have problems. I actually think a draw will be a good result there but looking at last nights results, WBA and Boro having won, we really need to win to maintain momentum. Interesting to see the likes of Sheff Utd and PNE lost last night against opposition I would have expected them to beat. Could be the current top three will be fighting out the 2 promotion spots at the end of the season with the rest taking points off each other finishing well away off the beat.

HTL and NG Looks like there has been further interesting discussion overnight (aussie time) that I missed. Firstly, I was interested in HTLs comments about the feeling of the place. Whilst I agree to a certain extent, that being closer to the source of a problem, can enlighten issues further, in the times of modern technology, this does not really apply any longer, especially at NUFC. I would think that 99.9% of supporters living in and around Tyneside are just as much left in the dark about the problems associated with the club over the past 12 months as us supporters far away. Secondly, having followed the club for more years than I can remember and having connections with the club since I was a youngster, people might be a little surprised at who and what some of us supporters far away might know. It would be very foolish to suppose that we know noithing, just because we are 10,000 miles away. Thirdly, whilst this has been an excellent discussion in my opinion, although sometimes degenerating to name calling, there should be a mutual respect by all concerned at the opinions of others without resorting to name calling. It would lead to better discussion and understanding of the situation and viewpoints of all concerned. Those who find the discussion boring, can move on to other threads without commenting. Finally, I apologise if some on here feel that what I say is meant to look like the truth, the whole truth and nothong but the truth. It is my opinions, based on information, readily available and some information accessed privately, resulting in what I believe to be a fair appraisal of the entire situation. I dont expect everyone to agree with my opinions but for what it is worth, it has lead to an interesting discussion with several people on here who have the interests of the club at heart, whether these people be in Gosforth, Yorkshire or Melbourne.

Didnt mean to offend you guys by using EPL even though it is quite a correct term. I suppose you would be more happy with the CCC..............................LOL Regarding the post about the stadium debt, I was unaware of what the conditions of this debt were but in interviews over the past 12 months, Ashley has stated that the club was still paying off 27 million pounds in relation to previous transfers for the likes of Luque etc. Also, as far as I was aware, we still owed Inter Milan 6 million pounds for Martins when we transferred him to Wolfsburg this season. The previous regime's antics in getting all money required to buy players from sponsorship etc eg Northern Rock up front has had a significant effect on income as well. So, even without the stadium debt, substantial debt was still owing and there wasnt a lot coming in to pay for it.

Mowen Wrong, Ashley did not get us relegated. The players did that and noone can deny the lack of performances from them that cost us our position in the EPL. You cannot blame Ashley for that.

Mowen New owner, new manager, need for players, reason to impress the fans were probably all contrbuting factors to Ashley allowing Allardyce to over expend on wages. As for the loan, I dont thing anyone of us knows exactly what the terms of the sale of the club is under Ashley except that he wants 100 million for a club he paid 134 million for 2 years ago. Common knowledge that he put a further 110 million in to service part of the debt is also evidenced. If I was in hios position, I would want to get as much back as possible.

NG Yes, very thin but much of the blame should be laid at the feet of the previous regime who were responsible for the purchase and subsequent sky high salaries of such flops as Luque, Owen, Boumsong, Babayaro etc. How many clubs would pay in excess of 35 million pounds for a player who returned nothing................Michael Owen This, unfortunately, is the legacy that Ashley inherited and should not be under estimated because we are still paying even though they left the club ages ago.

HTL Spending money to make money? He has not done that, has he? Well, he spent money on Bassong, didnt he? What was his profit on him? Same with Beye, same with Faye and he sold Milner for over 3 times what we paid for him. Furthermore, I would say the debt reduction from his own pocket was a fairly significant amount, wouldnt you?

HTL We all kmow now he was the wrong choice as an owner. He admitted his purchase of the club was more from the fun aspect than business. I really dont believe he knew the extent of the problems he was getting into and therefore, the club is suffering and will continue to suffer until the debt is managed within the financial business plan being adapted. On other matters regharding his wealth, it has been well reported regarding his massive losses in the last 12 months. When he bou8ght us, he was a double billionaire. Now, I believe that has been reduced to less than half a billion, still a significant amount but obviously, due to his other business interests, propping up the club is well down the list of priorities. By the way, I am not trying to put everything I say as the truth. I have stated several times that it is my opinion and I dont expect everyone to agree with me. If you dont like it, dont read it and comment otherwise.

Mowen Look at the transfers out as well. A few players left too. Furthermore, due to mhis l;ack of due diligence, I guess Ashley was only finding out the real extent of the debt well after subsidising Allardyce. On top of that, it is well known that Ashley has paid off over 100 million pounds of debt out of his own pocket, something the pervious administration would never have done. He deserves some credit for that.

HTL You dont need to be einstein to read into what has happened here and it is obvious there have been faults on both sides, but primarily, the situation changed because Ashley needed to debt manage. If he had conducted due diligence when he bought the club, he probably wouldnt have bought the club andI fear we would have been subsequently in the hands of administrators a long time ago.

I can understand your defence of KK but once again, you have all missed the major point here which is the financial implications Ashley inherited which has obviously forced drastic action for over a year now and IMO, will continue to do so until some rich benefactor takes over the club, if at all.

Wally Waste of a post by you there. I am entitled to my opinion and I dont expect everyone to agree with it.

Bob Agreed. I think they are looking ahead and trying to ensure that the top 4 culture will change to a more even competition in time. Also, the production line of young players can only benefit the national team in the longterm.

HTL With no disrespect, you seem to have conveniently bypassed one crucial and extremely major point regarding this entire debacle. Whilst I realise that you are an admirer of KK whilst I am not, it would appear that your comments regarding Ashley failing in his appointment of KK are very much one sided. Lets look at the financial situation the club found itself in. We all know that years of excessive spending by the likes of Souness etc had driven the club towards the financial black hole it finds itself in now. Ashley clearly identified this after taking over and decided best practice was to generate his own academy of youngsters and for a change, make profit on deals rather than huge financial losses experienced by the club i9n the previous regimes management. It was clear that Wise and Co. were brought in to deal with this side and to a certain extent, they were successful in attracting some good youing talent from around the world. Ashley had backed Allardyce with a fair amount of funding only to see most of it pissed up against a wall, so to speak. We all know the virtues of KK as a coach, especially of young players. It is non existent. He relies on money to buy players rather than nurturing them himself. Whether Wise and Co were instrumental in signing lkayers unwanted by Keegan is still heresay and yet to be proven in an open forum. The James Milner affair was instrumental in KK resigning. Anyone could see 12 million for Milner was too good a deal to turn down especially when the player wanted to leave. The fact that Schweinsteigger changed his mind to come to NUFC at the last minute is hardly the fault of the administration. Ashley has paid off in excess of 100 million pounds of debt and there is still substantially more to be paid off too. A blind man can see that we have not been in a position to buy players for over a year due to these financial constraints made even worse by relegation. Trutyh is, KK spat it when told limited funds would be available. He still had a good squad, had made a reasonable start but chose to sit the dummy instead. He could have tayed on and built the club up again but even he knew he didnt have the ability or the patience to do this. In my ipinion, he is just as much or even more cupable than Ashley for the situation we are in now. To take the club to court over this matter only highlights just what a con man he is.

GG Dont be silly.............grow up

Teasy Same difference, mate Games still had to be won. They won theirs, we lost ours.

NG It is probably difficult to compare the two clubs at the time. Financially, Manchester United were and probably still are the richest club in the world whilst we were possibly punching above our weight financially at the time. Lets be honest here, it was never going to last for a variety of different reasons. However, what cannot be denied is that we were in a superb position to win the league and we blew it. I also remember Keegan boosting the squad with the signings of Batty and Asprilla in the march. Unfortunatley, what we probably needed more was a couple of quality central defenders. Keegan should have known this. I suppose we could argue till the cows come home but the fact is, we lost a 12 point lead we shouldnt have and ultimately, that has to be down to the manager who selects the team and issues the tactics. Only one person to blame, mmate, That is Keegan. Anyway, it is late here. Good discussion, NG, but the missus is giving me the call so I better get off and do my duty.............LOL

NG Yes, I remember that occasion too. Begs to ask the question then. Where did Alex Ferguson go from there and Where did Kevin Keegan go? In any season, there is going to be a number of factors but noone can deny on here that 1995, Keegan blew the title because he was tactically niave, not because the team was inexperienced. Blackburn Rovers won the title when they were inexperienced. So did Leeds. There should have been no excuse for us in 1995, especially when you consider Kegans failure to close up shop in the last 15 minutes at Blackburn and Liverpool when we were winning.

Toondoom Quite a good scenario and quite possible too. Speaks for itself when you also consider his soccer circus is leaking money like a sieve. Seems quite convenient for him to make a claim, no matter how undeserved it is. What some people tend to call peoples opinions on this matter "laughable", possibly need to get rid of the blinkers. I actually hope Ashley wins his counter claim againast Keegan and get a couple of million for the club.

NG You know there was more to it than that. Like throwing away a 12 point lead because KK tactically didnt know how to defend and grind out results. Anyway, my comments was relating to SBR and how close we came in 2003.

NG I can quite clearly remember Ashley and Mort coming out with statements after the appointment saying "we listened to the fans". Anyway, what point are you trying to make exactly?