J7

Why are you completely ignoring that these are totally different things?

Na, it was nothing like this. We’re going on a year now of these kind of performances. He gets massive credit for what he did when he came in, but coming in and turning things round is different to needing to turn it round when you’ve been the manager. Players lose confidence in a manager and stop listening to them, even if it’s subconscious.

He did, and now we’re going backwards. If I thought things were going to turn back around again, I’d be delighted. There are very few signs of it and I don’t think we should be blinded by our fondness for him. He’ll go elsewhere and do well no doubt.

What a strange post. Why would anyone talk about the managers position after good wins? They are however few and far between. Brentfordx2, Sunderlandx2, Palace, Everton type performances are more frequent.

They haven’t got away ‘Scot free’ with it atall. Many people are criticising them and rightfully so. But even so, to what end? Criticism for the sake of it? You talk of ownership in decades and managers generally in a few years. It seems like you’re just looking for something to deflect away from the manager. People can analyse a few things at the same time. My own opinion on what is needed takes into account the mistakes of the ownership.

The ownership isn’t changing and I doubt many want it to, despite the obvious mistakes and the terrible summer. Discussing a managers performance is totally different.

He needs to leave now to protect his legacy before it gets toxic. Nothing is changing. If anything it’s getting worse.

This is nonsense. It’s not mass hysteria, and it’s not ‘just because we lost to Sunderland’. I personally think the manager would be under pressure at almost every PL club if they were in the same position relative to resources.

Nonsense. The pressure should be on and it’s the managers job to thrive under it. It comes with the job.

Of course. There are never guarantees. We’re going to a new team next year given the changes that will happen. Even if Alonso were to come in and we had an average season next year, there’s no guarantees Howe would have done any better. The decision isn’t an easy one.

I mean I can understand why some would want to stick with Howe, even if Alonso would come, but trying to play down his achievements feels a bit petty. He’s had a brilliant start to his managerial career. And to put it this way, if one of the big clubs had the option of Alonso or Howe, they’d all pick Alonso.

That’s it for me. It’s been the same all season and I haven’t seen any real sign of progression or trying to do anything different. At best, it’s stale. That doesn’t take away from his past success for me, but we’re not a travelling tribute act. I want to be confident that we’re going to progress and get better, and that the manager is the man to embark on such a big turnover of the playing squad this summer, which, for some reasons beyond his control, is unfortunately needed. I’m looking for signs as I love the man and want him so much to succeed from now on, but I’m struggling to have much confidence given the evidence before me over the past 8/9 months, plus the Everton last game of the season. It’s certainly not kneejerk to be thinking like this.

Nonsense. I said it was par, which is fine. It just wasn’t an overachievement. 15th would have had us ahead of Man Utd and Spurs. I also didn’t say anything was an absolute farce. Winning the league cup was clearly brilliant given the run.

No. Any finish below 5th last season would have been a disappointment. Villa finishing above us given they had CL football wouldn’t have been good, and we shouldn’t have been finishing behind any one of those Forest, Brighton or Bournemouth teams. We finished where we should have.

It’s not irrelevant at all. They were no where (16th and 17th).

Last seasons league finishing position was par. Man Utd and Spurs were a shambles and Villa had the CL that we can’t seem to cope with, still finishing on level points. Given our squad, 5th was par which was perfectly fine. He’s not a miracle worker as some seem to suggest.

Above par for the first 18 months, around par until last summer, below par since.

It doesn’t matter what he wanted. We weren’t in a position to get those players as soon as a club comes in offering £150k plus per week. You have to deal with what is, not what you want it to be. Again, Caulkin said we (he), made a conscious decision to prioritise targets in the league. Elanga, Wissa and Ramsey were his targets. £150m and a PSR boost for a direct rival.

He should have gone at the end of the season before he got sacked. He wasn’t ’forced out by the fans’ though.

It’s not an ‘okay season’ at all. You can count on one hand the amount of dominant performances, and we collapse more often than do what we did at Everton. Champions League was about par, but it ended up in utter humiliation. Howe has been very good for us, mostly in the first 18 months, then obviously the cup win. It’s been fairly good since the first CL qualification, helped by Spurs and Man Utd being an absolute shambles. But you can’t ignore the numerous warning signs now for nostalgia. We’ve got the 7th highest wage bill and have spent a bucket load. We’re a team of runners with little technical ability compared to others around us. We turn up in the games you expect us to turn up in, then flounder against average/poor sides. We can’t break down a low block. The in game management has been horrendous, we shit the bed when taking the lead and he is struggling to change anything. The subs rarely work. He’s been schooled by RLB and Keith Andrews over 4 games in their first seasons at the top level. I’m not even really calling for his head, but I’d like some evidence that things are going to get better, or he’s going to have to go. Previous managers wouldn’t have got away with the tripe being served up this season. We support Newcastle United, not Eddie Howe United.

No manager of Newcastle should be serving up those two second half capitulations in a week. At least Barcelona are fuckin good. Utter disgrace. It wasn’t just lack of effort or desire, it was a total mess.

Aston Villa getting howked with Paul Lambert as manager while circling the plug hole wasn’t one of the comparisons I was expecting as a defence of last nights tactical disaster tbh.

Well argued.

It’s hugely damaging. Barely anyone outside of our fanbase will remember 6-1 at Orient or the odd horrendous result on the road to relegation. For where we want to go, or even to stand still, last night was a disaster. We embarrassed ourselves at the highest level and potential signings saw a tactically inept second half performance, a collapse akin to Qarabag’s and a manager deciding to start Burn and Trippier. Burn chasing Lewandowski around in the other half was ridiculous. That said, it’s probably more damaging for the manager than the club as a whole who can change him if needed.

Fair enough. I didn’t, not for players we were going after. I kinda thought we would have been trying to sign potential (Hall, Tino, Botman type) with the odd experienced player, not players the 6 clubs with the biggest turnover wanted. Of the players we did sign, Elanga was hugely overpriced despite his recent improvement, and by signing Ramsey we have given a direct rival a huge PSR boost. Wissa was absolutely ridiculous at that price. The whole thing was a mess and it looked a mess at the time. I don’t blame players like Bruno and Tonali having their agents put the feelers out. We aren’t what was promised. Last nights naive tactical disaster in our biggest match of the season won’t have helped.