Northern Monkey

Well, i don't, but it's not up to us, is it?

If he remains, he will get my full and vocal support home and away, obviously.

But i'm not convinced he will or should stay, me.

I wish to fuck we'd bought Ashton instead.

Watching him play, which i'm guessing you haven't done much of for us

 

Neither have you.

 

I've seen him play every time he has, and from what i've seen, he's deserved **** all.

 

Still, maybe we SHOULD play him all the time. After all, he was great fro Depor........

 

My point is, even though he's hasn't been great, he's been no better or worse in his short time than Ameobi & Chopra. Luque has the ability which given a good run of games I'm sure he can reproduce the sort of form he showed in Spain...Shola & Chopra have never shown that.

I agree inasmuch as Chopra and Ameobi also have no place in our team.

But to fall back on the "he has ability" thing is not good enough. If he has THAT much, why can't he show more even in a short time? Other subs seem to manage it.

Watching him play, which i'm guessing you haven't done much of for us

 

Neither have you.

 

I've seen him play every time he has, and from what i've seen, he's deserved **** all.

 

Still, maybe we SHOULD play him all the time. After all, he was great fro Depor........

 

I've seen him play every time he has as well. Since Glenn Roeder took over, that's 90 minutes total, made up of substitute appearances - often at the back end of games which are either already lost or we've been hanging on and not attacking. I refuse to judge a player on that.

 

We didn't lose that many under Roeder?

 

I refuse to accept that he deserves to be starting based on his (admittedly limited) performances.

 

If he can't show some individual talent in the time he's had, he's not worth it.

 

I personally want rid. I realise that i am Officially Wrong about that, and that he should be given 400 consecutive games, and NEVER judged until he's good, but **** it, thats how i feel. I feel angery when a supposedly great player turns out to be a waster, but shit happens.

 

Until people stop twisting words and making stuff up, this debate is not worth having anymore tbh.

Making stuff up like him having shown something worth persevering with? Or like him being a world class player> Or like him needing time to "adapt" to a game played on the same sized pitch, with the same sized ball, number of players, and rules, as where he came from? Or like a player needing time to adjust to this league, despite being so amazing a talent??

Watching him play, which i'm guessing you haven't done much of for us

 

Neither have you.

 

I've seen him play every time he has, and from what i've seen, he's deserved **** all.

 

Still, maybe we SHOULD play him all the time. After all, he was great fro Depor........

 

I've seen him play every time he has as well. Since Glenn Roeder took over, that's 90 minutes total, made up of substitute appearances - often at the back end of games which are either already lost or we've been hanging on and not attacking. I refuse to judge a player on that.

We didn't lose that many under Roeder?

I refuse to accept that he deserves to be starting based on his (admittedly limited) performances.

If he can't show some individual talent in the time he's had, he's not worth it.

I personally want rid. I realise that i am Officially Wrong about that, and that he should be given 400 consecutive games, and NEVER judged until he's good, but fuck it, thats how i feel. I feel angery when a supposedly great player turns out to be a waster, but shit happens.

Watching him play, which i'm guessing you haven't done much of for us

 

Neither have you.

I've seen him play every time he has, and from what i've seen, he's deserved fuck all.

Still, maybe we SHOULD play him all the time. After all, he was great fro Depor........

Based on his play for us previously, why should Luque be given a game??

  Question is unanswerable as it presumes the amount of time he's played for us and the circumstances under which he's played have been enough to warrant such a decision.  To give an answer would be to accept that presumption.  I refuse. 

 

You may as well demand "Based on the vowels in his name, why shouldn't Luque be given a game??  BASED ON THE VOWELS, not your perception of vowels or letters like `y` that are sometimes vowels and sometimes not. "  Equally unanswerable because the qualifications posed are unreasonable. 

 

If, 10 games in to next season a fit Luque hasn't bagged any I'll gladly say that he doesn't deserve a game based on previous play.  But until then I reserve judgement. 

 

And if he remains shit/uninterested, you will just say "oh, he's not fit".

Watching him play, which i'm guessing you haven't done much of for us, he has earned FUCK ALL.

 

What a suprise that the same people are coming up with the same shit about desire when they have absolutely no idea what desire Luque shows behind the scene's.  Apparently Roeder is a lier in your opinion when he says that Luque puts in extra work in training when the rest of the team are having days off.

 

 

Given what we've seen of him on the field of play it's a credible idea that he shows a lack of application behind the scenes.

 

Since you and others dismiss the idea so easily I'll ask the question again that I've asked before. Why do you believe Roeder is not selecting Luque if he as good as you and others claim he is?

 

Cheers

 

We've been through this havent we HTL? When u asked the last time I said it could be because Roeder wanted to save him for next season and give him a full preseason to adapt to the EPL. I also said that, that theory was more supportive of our own player instead of assuming the worst "he must be crap in training" theory that you come out with, despite Roeder himself saying numerous times that Luque has trained well. Your response if I remember correctly was that you dont give a crap what my theory was or whether it was more supportive, and here you are again asking the same question and pretending like nobody has answered you.

 

 

Not sure why I bother replying to your posts, tbh, so this is the last time. Your deliberate misrepresentation by ignoring the context of my reply to your earlier post on this does you no favours. The link to it is below to refresh your memory.

 

The reason I said I don't care whether your idea is *better* ( note the word 'better', not 'crap' ) is because I'm more interested in how players perform for the team than whether an idea is better or not. Think about it.

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php/topic,19142.msg356448.html#msg356448

 

It still makes no sense to save a fit, so-called 'top' player for next season when the alternatives are proven to be average players at best.

 

Big deal so you didnt use the word crap, I'm eternally grateful :roll: The point is you asked for other reasons on why Roeder could be leaving Luque out, I and a few others gave you plausible reasons and now here you are asking again as if no answers were given to your super question. Whats more you have not explained how your theory that he sucks in training can be reconciled with Roeder's many interviews that he has done well. Instead you just paddle the idea incessantly to justify your position on Luque.

 

Roeder was tasked with fixing the massive mistakes of Souness - who certain people on this Board wanted to stay!!! - and he did so very well. In doing so, he largely overlooked Luque. That was clearly his choice, and bearing in mind what he achieved, we have to support him in that.

 

We don't know why Luque isn't getting played. None of us do. But based on what we've seen on the pitch, he's not particularly been worth playing any further.

 

He hasn't been a good buy, tough shit. Lets move on and get someone on with the DESIRE to play, as well as aibility. Someone like BEllamy......oh, dear.....

 

We can support Roeder without necessarily thinking that all his decisions were correct. I think his refusal to give Luque a chance is wrong and his decision not to put Luque on the bench aginst Brums when we absolutely needed to win was horrible and Souness like . The only part I agree with your post is the Bellamy bit.

Based on his play for us previously, why should Luque be given a game?? BASED ON HIS PLAY FOR US, not your perceptions of his abiloity based on Depor or his famous showreel.

 

What a suprise that the same people are coming up with the same shit about desire when they have absolutely no idea what desire Luque shows behind the scene's.  Apparently Roeder is a lier in your opinion when he says that Luque puts in extra work in training when the rest of the team are having days off.

 

 

Given what we've seen of him on the field of play it's a credible idea that he shows a lack of application behind the scenes.

 

Since you and others dismiss the idea so easily I'll ask the question again that I've asked before. Why do you believe Roeder is not selecting Luque if he as good as you and others claim he is?

 

Cheers

 

We've been through this havent we HTL? When u asked the last time I said it could be because Roeder wanted to save him for next season and give him a full preseason to adapt to the EPL. I also said that, that theory was more supportive of our own player instead of assuming the worst "he must be crap in training" theory that you come out with, despite Roeder himself saying numerous times that Luque has trained well. Your response if I remember correctly was that you dont give a crap what my theory was or whether it was more supportive, and here you are again asking the same question and pretending like nobody has answered you.

 

 

Not sure why I bother replying to your posts, tbh, so this is the last time. Your deliberate misrepresentation by ignoring the context of my reply to your earlier post on this does you no favours. The link to it is below to refresh your memory.

 

The reason I said I don't care whether your idea is *better* ( note the word 'better', not 'crap' ) is because I'm more interested in how players perform for the team than whether an idea is better or not. Think about it.

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php/topic,19142.msg356448.html#msg356448

 

It still makes no sense to save a fit, so-called 'top' player for next season when the alternatives are proven to be average players at best.

 

Big deal so you didnt use the word crap, I'm eternally grateful :roll: The point is you asked for other reasons on why Roeder could be leaving Luque out, I and a few others gave you plausible reasons and now here you are asking again as if no answers were given to your super question. Whats more you have not explained how your theory that he sucks in training can be reconciled with Roeder's many interviews that he has done well. Instead you just paddle the idea incessantly to justify your position on Luque.

Roeder was tasked with fixing the massive mistakes of Souness - who certain people on this Board wanted to stay!!! - and he did so very well. In doing so, he largely overlooked Luque. That was clearly his choice, and bearing in mind what he achieved, we have to support him in that.

We don't know why Luque isn't getting played. None of us do. But based on what we've seen on the pitch, he's not particularly been worth playing any further.

He hasn't been a good buy, tough shit. Lets move on and get someone on with the DESIRE to play, as well as aibility. Someone like BEllamy......oh, dear.....

On what are you judging him on, Monkey, a handful of appearances when he was unfit? Or his time with other clubs?

Because if you basing it on when he was unfit i'd say your dumb, if it was his time with other clubs i'd say I disagree but everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I'm basing it on how he has played for us. Everything else is irrelevant. I don't give a fuck how he played somewhere else. I care how he played for us. It seems that loads of people want to make excuses for the likes of him, Boumsong, and Dyer, without admitting that these people get paid a lot of money to play for us, and a number of them fail to do so adequately.

As for Luque.....his first two (?) games - poor. But people say he was settling in, can't expect any more. Then the injury. Whe nhe came back (and people on here were crying like babies for him to be played) he was poor. Very poor. Suddenly, he is still unfit (yet people were desperate for him to be played, and used it as a stick to beat roeder with), you can't have it both ways. He not only looked disinterested ("not fit yet", poor diddums), he also looked not that good. "But he's playing in a different country". Fuck off. I'm not talking about the pace of the game getting to him, but him showing talent, like Viana. I'm talking about him looking not very good. ITS THE SAME FUCKING GAME HERE AS IT IS IN SPAIN. Same number of players, same rules, same sized ball, same sized goa;. If he can't show individually that he's a great player, maybe he's not. "But he's playing with poor quality players". So was Owen. He managed to do well.

Excuse after excuse for Luque, based on a few games people saw him play for Depor, and soem nicely edited showreel.

I'm basing my opinion on what i've seen. Some players change my opinion by doing well, some confirm it being shite. I've seen nothing from Luque so far to show he's in the former category.

Let me say it really simple for the simpletons out there, because they seem to like totally ignoring his injury. Hamstring nearly tear in half, take long time to recover, long time to get full fitness back (this includes pace), and then there is the match sharpness. Give him a chance to get fit honestly if you lot had any idea how long it can take to rehab a sportsman after an injury you wouldn't be pulling the lad down. It is easier to rehab an unfit person after an injury than it is a elite sportsman. Injury like Luques' I would honestly say a year until full recovery, thats healing, the rehab that goes along with it, strength and endurance training, match training, strength and endurance would be ongoing, with flexibility included in all sessions. Trust me he would be working  harder than anyone in the team at the moment on getting himself right. Owen will be exactly the same, when these guys are injured they don't just sit on their arses and play playstation.

Does the injury make you not particulary good as well?

If Roeder gets the job, hopefully it'll be adios to Luque.

No doubt the Luque knockers will say its only a testimonial :roll:

 

But IMO, u can only eat whats in front of you. Anyway how was his overall play?

But in pretty much every other game he wss involved in up to the Scum game, he didn't look remotely hungry.

this is actually the first time this season i have actually been happy with the club. the future is definitely bright isnt it

Oh, yeah, things are looking great. Totally uninspiring manager. No idea who will or won't be at the club other than a few completely PR-tastic shite interviews. A squad where a good portion of the first team aren't really good enough.

I'm so happy, i could wee myself.

Cue all the fans saying "glad to hear Michael say that....it proves he wants to stay.......he loves the toon....."

 

bluesleep.gif

Yup, thats how they make me feel as well.

Luque, Emre, Boumsong, now Owen......i await with anticipation them staying at the club and proving their love for the toon.

Cue all the fans saying "glad to hear Michael say that....it proves he wants to stay.......he loves the toon....."

He's rubbish. His heading, shooting, ball control and distribution are woeful. His movement is fucking shocking, and his reading of the game is beyond shite.

 

If he is anything more than 4th choice next season, we are an absolute and utter bunch of slogging twats, and we'll deserve what we get.

 

Don't beat about the bush, mate.

That was me being subtle, mate. I've been an NUFC fan too long, and seen too many well-meaning fans defend players who were utter shite, out of some misplaced sense of loyalty.

Know this: THEY OWE US. Not the other way around. And shite like Ameobi, Faye, Dire, Boumsong et al will never be able to pay what they owe, because they're gash.

He's rubbish. His heading, shooting, ball control and distribution are woeful. His movement is fucking shocking, and his reading of the game is beyond shite.

If he is anything more than 4th choice next season, we are an absolute and utter bunch of slogging twats, and we'll deserve what we get.

We have better players, facilities, income and (theoretically) prospects. But they are in the UEFA Cup final. Go figure.

 

All that is true, which is why I left all those caveats in italics

 

I wouldn't put it past Gibson to play a blinder and get someone good in. He doesn't make the mistake FS does in talking big about managers while acting little.

 

Exactly...

 

 

When I say "roughly comparable", I obviously feel the Newcastle job as more favourable. I'm thinking of Paul Le Guen's appointment as Rangers manager - another club I would describe as "roughly comparable but slightly below" NUFC. A high-quality continental manager snapped up by a similar (yet inferior IMO) club while we scratch our arse and beg the FA to do us favours.

 

I'm just scared the smoggies will pull a similar trick on us...

 

Me too, mate, me too.

I'm fucking sick of domestic football, me. Its depressing me again.

We have better players, facilities, income and (theoretically) prospects. But they are in the UEFA Cup final. Go figure.

I wouldn't put it past Gibson to play a blinder and get someone good in. He doesn't make the mistake FS does in talking big about managers while acting little.

i got a call from someone at the chron this morning, its him

You said it was MON. 100% nailed on. 

I hope no-one who said "no" or "don't know" EVER said 'give Souness more time', because that would be too laughable even for us NUFC fans.

 

Why?

Because someone felt that the best course of action would be to stick with someone who would cost about £3m to pay off rather then sack him immediatly, they're not allowed to express an opinion on who they want next?

 

No, because anyone who thought that we wouldn't lose more than £3m by keeping on an incompetent, lying coward was a complete ****ing cretin.

 

 

You missed out the "imo". I agree, anyone who was wrong in the past shouldn't be allowed to express an opinion about the future 

Its not IMO, its fact.

Anyone who thought that Souness was a credicble manager, especially towards the end of his tenure, SHOULDN'T be able to express an opinion ab out the future, no. In the same way as you wouldn't get driving lessons of a drunken blind man with rage issues.

No, because anyone who thought that we wouldn't lose more than £3m by keeping on an incompetent, lying coward was a complete ****ing cretin.

 

So you weren't overly keen then?

You picked up on that? I thought i was hiding it pretty well, as i did fron the day he joined.  bluesigh.gif

I hope no-one who said "no" or "don't know" EVER said 'give Souness more time', because that would be too laughable even for us NUFC fans.

 

Why?

Because someone felt that the best course of action would be to stick with someone who would cost about £3m to pay off rather then sack him immediatly, they're not allowed to express an opinion on who they want next?

No, because anyone who thought that we wouldn't lose more than £3m by keeping on an incompetent, lying coward was a complete fucking cretin.

appoint O'Neill tbh

Only if we can't get anyone with a better record of success in a decent league.

I hope no-one who said "no" or "don't know" EVER said 'give Souness more time', because that would be too laughable even for us NUFC fans.

Not to bring this up again, but I believe Mr McKay is also the agent of Joey Barton, whos transfer request is nowt short of disgraceful.

 

Is it? You've obviously seen the contract they've offered him then. What are the details?

 

He's been offered more than his current deal, but not double as reported. However, despite his club standing by him through his antics, even if barton was offered waht he demanded in the first place (that double figure) he would now say no.

 

He says it's nothing to do with the money, so who knows any different. I'd love to know how people know what he's been offered in his contract.

I know that they initialluy refused his original double money demand, but now, suddenly, he would refuse it if they offered.