Northern Monkey

Let's try and keep it simple, he needed to by 2 defenders he didn't. The buck stops with him.

 

Maybe but I don't think he is fully to blame for the transfer window debacle and I'd be shocked if the board didn't undermine him in some way on that front given they did so to the previous two managers.

 

I don't doubt for a moment that Sibierski and Bernard were boardroom deals either and not Roeder buys because they just don't fit the profile, I don't think Duff was either, not in so many words.

 

I think the club went to Roeder and said: "would you like Duff"

 

Roeder: "sure but we need defenders and strikers first"

 

Club: "don't worry Glenn, we'll work with you to bring those players in"

 

Roeder: "go on then, aye, I'll have Duff as well in that case"

 

I could be wrong like, but I don't think I'm too far off.

Thats just guesswork though, isn't it. Simple fact is that we only have one defender worthy of a team trying to achieve - and then better - 6th place, and that's Taylor. Roeder is the manager, and he failed to bring in any defenders in the transfer window.

Fact is, there are some fans who think that any player or manager who represents the club automatically deserves support for a given amount of time. This is why some people were saying we should give Souness iuntil the end of last season, and beyond. They were wrong.

Roeder came in, and helped us out, and the team did what it had to. Now, though, with the "new manager" effect gone, it is clear that he is not up to it. He ballsed up in the transfer window (and shortly after it), his player/tactics/subs selections have been poor, and he has to go (for me, anyway).

The "well, who else do you want" argument was used by certain fans to justify keeping Soumess on, and it was as lfawed then as it is now. I don't claim to know the availability of every manager in the world, but i DO know that Roeder is not up to the task for me, and that keeping him on is not going to help him or us. There are clearly problems at Board level, and we are by no means a big club, but lets not allow that to cloud the fact that Deadly Doug Ellis got O'Neill only a few months after we failed to do so. They now have a better manager than us, by a long way.

Our first team is a shambles, the manager makes seemingly random substitutions, our best outfield player of last season is sat in the bench, and as soon as Bramble comes back, he'll be back in the first team, despite the fact that we play in a division above the one his ability should have him in.

We see ourselves as a top 6 team at the least, but half of the first team, and the manager himself, aren't good enough for that.

 

Both HTT and Gemm's ideas of lateral movement is twisting sharply and watching their stomachs follow seconds later tbh.

 

Ye big fat gimps  .

 

Gemmill is right about Martin's movement and T27 being a melon head.

 

HTT is right about Martin's in general. I'd like to think wrong about AJ too but i wanst there and the hardest thing to judge about a match on the TV is the movement of a striker.

 

Not that i give a shit either way about who is right i just want Martins to come good in the right circumstances for him as a player.

 

The way I look at it is if an average player like Johnson can score goals in this league despite limited technical ability and moderate movement/positioning then there is no reason why Martins can't start producing similar results.

 

 

Agreed. If Johnson can then so can Martins.

 

I think everyone is being really impatient. The situation is not ideal, he is being asked to take on responsibility, he is 21 years of age and has just moved via Milan to the north east of england, playing in a league COMPLETELY different to the one he came from.

 

HE NEEDS TIME!!

 

Now, i know Gemmill and me can talk from experience about working abroad, he went to San Fran for 3 years and am sure would be the first person to say, great thing to do but you need time to settle.

 

It took me 4 or 5 months after i moved out of the country for my professional standards to get back up to the level they were before i left and i have 10 years experience under my belt.

But you could hold a pen still? You didn't forget how to write? Because MArtins has shown an inability ot even control a football. How is that the fault of him moving to a different league??

Quick question to the considerable number of people who raved about how amazingly two footed Martins was.

 

Do you still believe this to be the case?

No, I'll admit I was wrong there (though I never said he was two-footed, just that he had a decent right-foot)

 

Fair enough, it wasn't meant as a dig and I hope Raconteur is right that it may just be a confidence issue.

 

It would make a massive difference when he has the speed to get to the ball, to not have to stop and check back onto his left and lose any advantage that he might have just gained.

He's gaining no advantage by not being able to control the ball. Which is a worry, because we can't hide behind him being new to the Premiership for THAT.

His strategy seems to be to hit the ball early, which isn't always the best way, but it may be right for him. His close control is so bad that if he were to try to take an extra touch or take the ball round the last defender, he'd most likely lose it. Likewise, he doesn't make many runs out to the wing to free up space, because I don't think he can create much from that position.

 

I think we just have to accept the package. He's going to miss some chances that others wouldn't, and he's not going to create much for his team mates, but he's such a good athlete that he will get on the end of chances that would be beyond other strikers. He also gets a lot of power in his shots, even from fairly static positions.

 

Incidentally, I can't see him combining at all with Owen. Two specialist finishers wouldn't work IMO.

Thats ok then, Martins certainly isn't that.

We can't blame the "getting used to the EPL" rubbish for this one - the ball is the same shape as the one in Italy, he is just not good at controlling it.

I think everytime he gets the ball in future everyone in the ground should boo him, that way he'll lose any confidence that he has and end up an outcast like Luque, then with any luck Freddie Shepherd will get on the phone again to Ocean Finance and ask if we can borrow another £10 million to buy someone else next summer.

Thats right - its the CROWDS fault Luque is shite, not the players!! If only we'd realised before. Are we to blame for Shola, Bramble, Moore and Babayaro being sub-par as well??

with shola only able to play once a week, and rossi blocked from playing in europe luque may still get a few games for us.

 

my personal oppinion is, that he was never given a proper chance, and i'm affraid that's too late now with roeder's attitude, the player's attitude and the fans' attitude!

 

would still like to see him play a bit and maybe start getting into gear....

How many games woudl you gove him? 6? 12? another season??? 

If he was to be played, i'd want to see regular GOOD performances within 5 games. But he won't do that, we know he won't. Because he's not fit for the EPL.

Shola has hit form under Roeder, why drop him for a player who doesnt look to have the apetite?

 

See, that's my point. He's hit form and still barely fits in a premiership team. You think he's playing well cos you know how incredibly shit he is. His hitting form is losing the ball more times then anybody I can remember and a first touch that goes 8 yards away from him (if he's brought it down well). Looks like he woiuld make a good squad player at Watford.

Shola is NOT a top half (or even top 15) Premierhsip player. I don;t see how anyone who has watched him play can think he is.

HOWEVER, he is still better for NUFC than Luque.

I just wish neither of the twats were on our books.

There is no doubt in my mind that we've seen the last of Luque, esp when the likes of Sibierski and Rossi ahead of him on the bench.

 

Well done Roeder for throwing a 9.5M asset down the drain. If Roeder thought he was that bad, he should have been sold even on the cheap in the last window because guess he is gonna be sold even cheaper and we are gonna lose even more money in January.  Would't surprise me if he is sold under 1M at all.

 

Yeah, well done Roeder.  It's your fault that Luque's wages and the fact that he is completely shit have made him a non-viable purchase for pretty much any club not willing to take a massive risk on a player. 

 

The fact is, there were clubs who did came in for him and we presumably turned them down because the offer wasn't big enough. Well guess what, those clubs are gonna come in with an even lower offer in January and this time we will sell less we want to let him go for free at the end of his contract, which all makes a mockery of Roeder's (or Freddy's) decision not to sell him on in the last window. We can debate endlessly bout Luque and whether he was given a fair chance, but what is not debatable is that if Roeder wanted rid of him so bad, then he should have sold him by now instead of keeping him and loose him for even more money in January.

 

So you know for a fact that certain clubs came in, and if so, why we knocked them back? You must have friends in high places. Or you believe rumours, one of the two.

 

To answer your question, I have friends in high places  blueyes.gif

 

If no club came in, then we should have transfer listed him, because that's what Roeder is affectively doing now anyway.

Transfer-listing him would further devalue him in terms of the fee we could get for him imo.

 

Roeder has affectively transfer listed now that he has been frozen out. The difference is had we done that in the last window, presumably we could have got a decent price after his decent performances in the pre season. In January, he would go for much less seeing as he would have hardly played any game for us.

 

Decent performances in pre-season??  A goal against Lillestrom you mean?  I don't see anyone breaking the bank because of that. 

 

Yes and he was arguably also the MOM for that game and had a reasonably good game against PSV. But I'm sure you missed all that and prefer to focus on the last 5-10 minutes he played last season to rationalize your conclusion.

Whereas you can safely base your conclusion on one good game (arguably not MOM), and one half-decent one??

Age old question but has Luque been given even half a decent run in the team in his preferred position? While I concur that he has been shit, at least he has shown some balls by not legging it, not really whinged in the press and has actually stated he wants to stay. Give the boy 6-8 games tucked behind Martins and see what he can do. Most of all, what I reaaly can't see is how Shola Ame-fucking-obi has been one of the worst players to ever wear the toon top, made his debut SIX years ago, is never going to be our answer up front but doesn't come in for half the beef that others take. So **** if he grew up round here; so did I.

Ameobi IS also shit, yes. Neither of them shoudl be near the first team.

But Ameobi, awful, innefective and unskilled as he is, is still a better bet than Luque.

There is no doubt in my mind that we've seen the last of Luque, esp when the likes of Sibierski and Rossi ahead of him on the bench.

 

Well done Roeder for throwing a 9.5M asset down the drain. If Roeder thought he was that bad, he should have been sold even on the cheap in the last window because guess he is gonna be sold even cheaper and we are gonna lose even more money in January.  Would't surprise me if he is sold under 1M at all.

 

Its not ROeders fault that Luque is shit. And Luque is NOT a £9.5m asset, any more than Boumwrong was an £8m asset. If i went out and paid £10,000 for a K Reg Escort, it wouldn't make it actually worth £10,000. It'd mean i paid way too much, liek we did for Luque. Alas, we have also given him wages above his station, and now we are lumbered.

 

Roeder is culpable for a number of errors. Luque being rubbish isn't one of them.

 

Seriously if you were reading, I hardly said that Roeder is to be blamed for Luque being 'rubbish' (according to you). My gripe is that we are gonna yet again lose a player on the cheap and we've done so many times, its unreal. I agree that we over paid when we got him, he is worth more around the 5-6M bracket (based on his form in Depor which by the way was not just invented on the internet reel had you watched La Liga), but we are gonna lose a hell lot of money when we sell him for 2-3M (if we are lucky) in January.

If we get £3m for him, based on the ability he has shown since he came here, that'd be fair.

There is no doubt in my mind that we've seen the last of Luque, esp when the likes of Sibierski and Rossi ahead of him on the bench.

 

Well done Roeder for throwing a 9.5M asset down the drain. If Roeder thought he was that bad, he should have been sold even on the cheap in the last window because guess he is gonna be sold even cheaper and we are gonna lose even more money in January.  Would't surprise me if he is sold under 1M at all.

 

Yeah, well done Roeder.  It's your fault that Luque's wages and the fact that he is completely shit have made him a non-viable purchase for pretty much any club not willing to take a massive risk on a player. 

 

The fact is, there were clubs who did came in for him and we presumably turned them down because the offer wasn't big enough. Well guess what, those clubs are gonna come in with an even lower offer in January and this time we will sell less we want to let him go for free at the end of his contract, which all makes a mockery of Roeder's (or Freddy's) decision not to sell him on in the last window. We can debate endlessly bout Luque and whether he was given a fair chance, but what is not debatable is that if Roeder wanted rid of him so bad, then he should have sold him by now instead of keeping him and loose him for even more money in January.

So you know for a fact that certain clubs came in, and if so, why we knocked them back? You must have friends in high places. Or you believe rumours, one of the two.

Im talking about selling him on, yes he has been rubbish for us but im sure the clubs in Spain have seen enough to know he is actually a talented player.

And yet there is jsut a rumour abotu one single spanish club coming in for him,. despite it surely being known he was finished here.

Im sure/hope we can get a decent amount of money for him from Spain (enough to buy someone more useful like Nugent)

 

We got £3.3m (rising too) for Boumsong and believe it or not Luque has actually been a very good player in another league, he isnt a sh*t footballer, he is obviously not cut out for this league, there is a difference!

 

|I cna only speak for how i seen him play here.

 

I had never heard of him before, to any degree, but i have seen him play for us, and the vast, vast majority of times, he's been utter gash.

 

Doesnt mean he is a sh*te footballer though! I never personally witnessed Hitler being evil but im pretty confident he wasnt the nicest fella around.

No, it means he's been a shite footballer for us, which is all i care about. I don't care about internet showreels or 2nd hand reports from Spain - for us, he'd been utterly rubbish.

Im sure/hope we can get a decent amount of money for him from Spain (enough to buy someone more useful like Nugent)

 

We got £3.3m (rising too) for Boumsong and believe it or not Luque has actually been a very good player in another league, he isnt a sh*t footballer, he is obviously not cut out for this league, there is a difference!

|I cna only speak for how i seen him play here.

I had never heard of him before, to any degree, but i have seen him play for us, and the vast, vast majority of times, he's been utter gash.

There is no doubt in my mind that we've seen the last of Luque, esp when the likes of Sibierski and Rossi ahead of him on the bench.

 

Well done Roeder for throwing a 9.5M asset down the drain. If Roeder thought he was that bad, he should have been sold even on the cheap in the last window because guess he is gonna be sold even cheaper and we are gonna lose even more money in January.  Would't surprise me if he is sold under 1M at all.

Its not ROeders fault that Luque is shit. And Luque is NOT a £9.5m asset, any more than Boumwrong was an £8m asset. If i went out and paid £10,000 for a K Reg Escort, it wouldn't make it actually worth £10,000. It'd mean i paid way too much, liek we did for Luque. Alas, we have also given him wages above his station, and now we are lumbered.

Roeder is culpable for a number of errors. Luque being rubbish isn't one of them.

Why wasn't Luque sold if Sibierski and Rossi are going to make the squad ahead of him..?

 

Not as simple as that, 1 or 2 teams were in for him but they didnt offer enough. Luque's wages will be a hurdle because he wont leave unless he's on roughly the same money

We don't know that ANY teams came in for him.

More likely no-one wants him, because he's fucking nowhere near worth what we paid for him, or his salary.

Ramage V Tevez. Going to be fun if you're a hammer.

 

Can anyone else see a stupid scoreline?

I can in many od our games this season under Roeder, with the patently awful defence he has insisted on keeping.

If he comes good, stand by for numerous posts saying how we wasted our transfer kitty in the summer, because of course we should have bought defenders and played the season with Ameobi and Luque up front 

No, the money we 'wasted' wa son a left winger, who we needed a LOT less than we needed (and still need) central defenders.

 

So is anyone genuinely starting to feel a little worried?

I was concerned from day ONE.

I had heard nothing concrete about this bloke, only things I had heard weren't good, and when it was said he was quick, what i HAD heard mentioned this not at all. My source was astonished we had paid what we had for a player who never amounted to much in Italy. Roeder strikes again....

 

I think you need a new source. Martins has been acknowledged for years as one of the quickest, if not the quickest, players in the world.

 

Quickest in the world?? I don;t think i've EVER heard or seen that.

 

But he must be the best at something, he signed for us!! And we're great!!

 

Full of internationals like Babayaro, Moore, Dyer, Luque etc. Only the fastest/best come to us.

 

You don't seem the type to really research new Newcastle players tbh.

"research"

bluelaugh.gif

 

So is anyone genuinely starting to feel a little worried?

I was concerned from day ONE.

I had heard nothing concrete about this bloke, only things I had heard weren't good, and when it was said he was quick, what i HAD heard mentioned this not at all. My source was astonished we had paid what we had for a player who never amounted to much in Italy. Roeder strikes again....

 

I think you need a new source. Martins has been acknowledged for years as one of the quickest, if not the quickest, players in the world.

Quickest in the world?? I don;t think i've EVER heard or seen that.

But he must be the best at something, he signed for us!! And we're great!!

Full of internationals like Babayaro, Moore, Dyer, Luque etc. Only the fastest/best come to us.

In my opinion, we should have gone for Andy Cole if we were desperate.

 

The only silver lining I can see is that he offers us some height and physique. Perhaps he could do what Pedersen does at Bolton?

 

Anyone know the fee/wages?

I'd be more pissed about signing him again than I am about Sibierski

Andy Cole is better than Ameobi. Sibierski is just as bad as our lanky pile of donkey shite.

We could do better, it's sad that he's the current object of the club's affections.

 

Shows how far we've gone down.

 

after we just signed Martins and Duff ffs, get a grip

 

And Sibierski and Bernard. And been rebuffed for Lucas Neill. Lucas fucking Neill.

 

We remain small time. Even more so if we go for Viduka again.

 

 

is that the same lucas fucking neill that the 5 times european champs and current f.c cup olders were rebuffed for???

 

Yeah, they've never bought a pup, have they.

 

I've never read anything remotely positive of yours. If he isn't good enough for you then who would you suggest we buy? You keep on saying we're an average team so who do you expect us to buy? Ferreira? Frankly, he's a good player and I'm sure people like Benitez and Roeder who know loads more about football than you seem to think so too.

So Benitez hasn't bought any pups?

SAF has bought soem bad 'uns. All managers have, it happens.

Lucas Neill would have been one of them.

We could do better, it's sad that he's the current object of the club's affections.

 

Shows how far we've gone down.

 

after we just signed Martins and Duff ffs, get a grip

 

And Sibierski and Bernard. And been rebuffed for Lucas Neill. Lucas fucking Neill.

 

We remain small time. Even more so if we go for Viduka again.

 

 

is that the same lucas fucking neill that the 5 times european champs and current f.c cup olders were rebuffed for???

Yeah, they've never bought a pup, have they.

We could do better, it's sad that he's the current object of the club's affections.

 

Shows how far we've gone down.

 

after we just signed Martins and Duff ffs, get a grip

And Sibierski and Bernard. And been rebuffed for Lucas Neill. Lucas fucking Neill.

We remain small time. Even more so if we go for Viduka again.