Rich

All the players who went out were replaced, in most cases by people who are probably on bigger wages. Barton will be getting shedloads, Viduka is the 2nd highest paid player at the club, Smith will be earning plenty. Some players got improved contracts, etc. More backroom staff was brought in...

I personally would go in heavy this summer and give us a strong chance of qualifying for Europe etc, so I agree with your 3rd para. Profit and income has to be increased and that isn't going to happen with treading water. Why the chuff didn't you say that originally then, you gonk! That way would undoubtedly be a lot more exciting, like, as I've said. I thought you knew I was a slash and burn merchant. Should have bolded the bit I meant in particular, I was gagging for someone to state the alternate route.

So you agree with Jonny, but can see that us buying Rooney at that time probably wouldn't have been ideal? That's probably the right answer. Thing is, like I said, it was Man Utd who were in the position to do that at that time, not us. As nice as it might have been, I'm not sure it was plausible to take a risk of that magnitude on even a player like Rooney. Indeed. and even had Rooney came, is there a guarantee we could have made him the consistent and level-headed performer he is today, or would he have gone off the rails? remember the season before he left Everton, they finished one place above the relegation zone so there is no guarantee he would've improved our league position. He would have been an idiot to come here ahead of Man Utd, undoubtedly, the proof is in the pudding there. One player doesn't make a team and that's even just discounting what it would have meant for Wor Craig, etc. It was a nice thought, if we were playing Football Manager.

I personally would go in heavy this summer and give us a strong chance of qualifying for Europe etc, so I agree with your 3rd para. Profit and income has to be increased and that isn't going to happen with treading water. Why the chuff didn't you say that originally then, you gonk! That way would undoubtedly be a lot more exciting, like, as I've said.

So you agree with Jonny, but can see that us buying Rooney at that time probably wouldn't have been ideal? That's probably the right answer. Thing is, like I said, it was Man Utd who were in the position to do that at that time, not us. As nice as it might have been, I'm not sure it was plausible to take a risk of that magnitude on even a player like Rooney.

Cheers Apisith, I was waiting for someone to come in with this argument, I didn't want to have a discussion with myself to be honest. The speculating to accumulate thing has to be mentioned, even though it's a more high-risk strategy. If what they do is trim the fat like Smith, Duff, Emre, etc. and replace them with players like Modric who command hefty fees but smaller wages, then they'll be starting out on the right track. It's a hell of a lot harder to find players like that, though, rather than to go after the likes of Riise, Crouch, etc. We've been speculating to accumulate for years now, like a gambler who just kept chucking it on and building up a tab. Thing is now, we have an owner who could, by rights, afford to do things that way - and fucking hell it would be a lot more exciting. This is what I hoped this thread would be about, though, to see whether people would back the high-risk strategy over the "Spurs" strategy.

We'd still have had a shite defence, mind, and I dread to think what it would have done to the club financially. Not to mention the Bellamy implosion waiting to happen, the fact we had Shearer, Kluivert and Ameobi as well... It's often not as simple as "someone is available, get them bought", I think that's the point, you can't do that at the expense of everything else, as exciting as it would be. A na man, that's why I said of the complications, but a player like Rooney can be the cornerstone of your team for years to come. Someone that talented who is within your grasp, you just have to go for them. Weren't Northern Rock going to be putting the money up for Rooney as well? Sure something like that rings a bell. I think Northern Rock "putting the money up" was simply them giving us the sponsorship money in one go, rather than in staggered payments, like they did for Owen. It's a bit different then, isn't it? I'd also say that it's incredibly unlikely to think that Rooney would have stayed here "for years". As soon as a bigger club came in for him, he'd have been away. Man Utd were in a position to buy Rooney and surround him with other top class players. We weren't, unfortunately. If we'd got him, that would have been that for I dunno how long. The money was drying up - most of it wasn't even ours, in fact.

what about Smith, Barton, Cacapa, Rozenhal, and as you have said yourself, Duff ? Then ask yourself why we have finshed 12th/13th. I thought you rated Smith?? Mort wasn't the chairman when we bought Duff, was he? I'll give you Cacapa and Rozehnal, but Barton looks like sorting himself out. If you'd known that those players were going to be poor though, why didn't you give the club a ring to let them know!? You don't want us to fail, do you? :-[

We'd still have had a shite defence, mind, and I dread to think what it would have done to the club financially. Not to mention the Bellamy implosion waiting to happen, the fact we had Shearer, Kluivert and Ameobi as well... It's often not as simple as "someone is available, get them bought", I think that's the point, you can't do that at the expense of everything else, as exciting as it would be.

So we were at 72% after the Owen compensation came in? Oh dear.

Fulham? (If they stay up.)

completely ignoring the fact that Robson was backed when he bought Woodgate in the first place ....... I don't think that actually we could afford to turn down the offer from Real Madrid to be honest, in view of his injury record at the time. We did try to spend the money on building a team though didn't we ? Why is it that because Boumsong was a poor signing, you consider this not to have been the case ? Just like you've completely ignored that the "Rooney money" was then given to Souness, man! I love this stuff, it's fucking priceless. Brilliant way of avoiding this assignment. eeer.......yes, yes it was. For "team building". Shame we didn't get Rooney though, don't you think ? Dunno like. Souness might have driven him out of the club like he did with Bellamy? possibly, he might even decide we are better off without these trophy players ? Are you calling Craig Bellamy a trophy player now? no, he was a quality player, its others who use such daft phrases. He was quality like, bit injury prone mind.

I wouldn't have to tell Mort, he does that already. Just look at Beye, Faye, Enrique, etc. Johnny Averages, to a man, 'cos they only cost 2/3 of what Owen did between them!!

I think I love that.

completely ignoring the fact that Robson was backed when he bought Woodgate in the first place ....... I don't think that actually we could afford to turn down the offer from Real Madrid to be honest, in view of his injury record at the time. We did try to spend the money on building a team though didn't we ? Why is it that because Boumsong was a poor signing, you consider this not to have been the case ? Just like you've completely ignored that the "Rooney money" was then given to Souness, man! I love this stuff, it's fucking priceless. Brilliant way of avoiding this assignment. eeer.......yes, yes it was. For "team building". Shame we didn't get Rooney though, don't you think ? Dunno like. Souness might have driven him out of the club like he did with Bellamy? possibly, he might even decide we are better off without these trophy players ? Are you calling Craig Bellamy a trophy player now?

What question about Owen ? I've answered most things I've seen, unlike other people that I ask, and you know who they are. I also haven't got all day to spend on here too. About how at 2 years into his deal, where he'd probably taken upwards of £10M off us in wages and cost us £16M, he'd played less than 14 games and scored 7 goals - making his signing a bit of a disaster at that point, to say the least. well, if you'd known that was going to happen, you should have rang the club and told them !! I tried!! Thing is, Shepherd would never speak to the fans man. If Mort had been there, the whole thing could have been avoided!

...and Robert.

completely ignoring the fact that Robson was backed when he bought Woodgate in the first place ....... I don't think that actually we could afford to turn down the offer from Real Madrid to be honest, in view of his injury record at the time. We did try to spend the money on building a team though didn't we ? Why is it that because Boumsong was a poor signing, you consider this not to have been the case ? Just like you've completely ignored that the "Rooney money" was then given to Souness, man! I love this stuff, it's fucking priceless. Brilliant way of avoiding this assignment. eeer.......yes, yes it was. For "team building". Shame we didn't get Rooney though, don't you think ? Dunno like. Souness might have driven him out of the club like he did with Bellamy?

What question about Owen ? I've answered most things I've seen, unlike other people that I ask, and you know who they are. I also haven't got all day to spend on here too. About how at 2 years into his deal, where he'd probably taken upwards of £10M off us in wages and cost us £16M, he'd played less than 14 games and scored 7 goals - making his signing a bit of a disaster at that point, to say the least.

completely ignoring the fact that Robson was backed when he bought Woodgate in the first place ....... I don't think that actually we could afford to turn down the offer from Real Madrid to be honest, in view of his injury record at the time. We did try to spend the money on building a team though didn't we ? Why is it that because Boumsong was a poor signing, you consider this not to have been the case ? Just like you've completely ignored that the "Rooney money" was then given to Souness, man! I love this stuff, it's fucking priceless. Brilliant way of avoiding this assignment.

names ? Owen is the only player that genuinely springs to mind to me of players we have actually bought when people bandy this "trophy player" stuff about, because until recently he'd been a massive failure for this football club. Rooney is probably the best example of it, though, and we didn't even sign him. Owens goals, and Martins, have just saved us from relegation. Poor signing ? I don't think so. I don't think ManU would consider Rooney a "trophy" signing, and to be honest I find it absolutely incredible that any Newcastle United supporter would be unhappy to have him. Ridiculous. Just giving you the answer you were asking for, as I assume those two would be the players singled out as trophy signings/potential trophy signings. As for the bold bit, it's a very superficial argument, as someone could easily counter with "if that £16M had been better spent, we might not have been fighting relegation to begin with", which would be a fair enough comment. Then we'd end up in that brilliant never-ending cycle again. Faced with a choice of spending 16m quid on a proven player who you know is top class, or 3 or 4 sub standard players who are decidely risky, its a complete no brainer. The quality player wins every single time, for me. Alan Shearer spring to mind ? Was he a "trophy" player then ? Owen was actually one of the few players around capable of stepping into his shoes, and not being fazed by it or anything. Its exactly the sort of player the club should have looked to replace Shearer with, which they did. Not really old enough to appreciate what Shearer truly meant at the time... but as far as his signing goes the record shows that we never reached the heights that we had done in the season before he arrived and then a year after he arrived the team had to be broken up because the club couldn't afford to sustain it any longer, quite possibly down to spunking £15M on one player, amongst other things. Maybe that £15M would have been better spent elsewhere, or maybe they should have just spent £5M or £10M, but we'll never know that will we? Just playing devil's advocate here. I hope that if you advocate spending less money on lesser players, you don't go down the line of criticising players for average prices that turn out to be poor performers ie Barton, Smith spring to mind so far. This being the route you say the club should be taking. I never said that's the route the club should take, you're putting words into my mouth there. I said I was playing devil's advocate, trying to see it from another perspective of what "might have been", I wasn't stating that it's what should have been done.

NE5, the sentiment is quite obviously right, but some of the logic and reasoning is not. I honestly wish we had the cash to spend on a team of these fabled "trophy players" and I wish there were no repercussions if we did take that route. The fact remains that we weren't sustainable the way it was going though, I remember you yourself making some comments in agreeance with me about the worry of falling behind our competitors financially as well as on the pitch. Sadly though, it just can't be done the way it was anymore, and as you know good players don't always cost massive amounts of money. Beye has come in at £2M and looked a revelation at right-back, Enrique is starting to look the part on the other side as well, and he did cost a fair bit for an unproven fullback from abroad. Big, big improvements can be made without a huge outlay, I think this is what people are getting at. Obviously there comes a time when big money needs to be spent (replacing Viduka is something on the horizon where I can see us spending a hefty amount on a forward), but it has to be done in measure, and along with working on other areas of the team. Shepherd and the managers obviously didn't get it wrong all the time, but they most definitely didn't get it right all the time either. I don't understand why it always has to be one or the other with you, bar the WUM factor.

Thankyou for that valuable and insightful input.

Those two went, but Viduka came in on a very similar amount, some players were given new improved contracts (Milner and N'Zogbia to name but two). Smith will be on a canny wedge coming here over Everton, Beye and Faye are probably making a pretty penny... Yawn. Mort himself has said the wagebill has gone up £10M this season. I have no reason to doubt that, personally, and the turnover has quite probably decreased seeing how we had European football last season. 80% is entirely plausible based on that.

Oh, and well done on completely ignoring the Owen stuff as well. Fantastic work.