Beren

GW20 Sunderland V Tottenham Aston Villa V Wigan Fulham V Swansea Man Utd V West Brom Norwich V Man City Reading V West Ham Stoke V Southampton Arsenal V Newcastle Everton V Chelsea QPR V Liverpool

Reminds me of an Everton side of yesteryear (or at least my impression of them) - a frustrated Everton who used to really challenge the top six sides and give them a good game, with a good performance, but ultimately get edged out by the odd goal. After that you'd think "well, if they can carry that kind of fight and performance into the games against non-top six sides they'll be just fine" - then they'd lose at home to Wigan or something.

As a general point (again without having seen the game) I'm not sure I'd be swelling with pride over a good performance with no points today, which is a bit of a change of tune for me. (don't know if any on here, or elsewhere, are btw). I think it's often easier to be valiant losers against a big side than convincing winners against minnows/those around you. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we didn't get tonked etc, but 'brave losers' is not a good end-aspiration! Felt the same about the Man City game. Difficult to see if we've really started to turn a corner until we get some less insane fixtures. When we begin to convert home against the likes of West Ham and Swansea into wins, I'll feel much happier. The QPR game was a start - even if it was a bit more of a meandering struggle than it ought to have been. From a few of the posts on here I've read it seems like we did okay today though, which is nice ( - albeit in a hollow sort of way!)

Just got in. Followed this on Livescore.com - had a certain inevitability about it sadly. I'll catch the highlights on MoTD. Cba with this thread though, not at this time of year http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1384167/yuck_imdone.gif

The holiday season really brings out the gentle side of Mick

GW 19: Everton 2-1 Wigan Fulham 1-0 Southampton Man Utd 2-1 Newcastle Norwich 0-0 Chelsea QPR 0-2 West Brom Reading 1-2 Swansea Sunderland 1-2 Man City Aston Villa 1-3 Tottenham Stoke City 0-0 Liverpool

Indeed. You can't call a spade a spade on here. Well, here's one: many of our players, especially our better ones, and I include Cisse in that (as well as Colo and Tiote for example), have not played anywhere close to their ability. They are as much, if not more to blame for our current plight as the default scapegoats this forum loves to slate, such as Simpson, Williamson and more recently Ba and Pardew. Why do you think many of our players haven't played "anywhere close to their ability"?

As if he isn't world class.

Poor Shola...

"Senegal" and "Spies"

Fair enough. Suppose that's where the difference of opinions arise. I've never been sold on results alone - I've been waiting for signs of sustainable footballing improvement/success (therefore never had any faith to begin with), whereas I assume through that season and a half you mention, he has bought himself more time with you.

From the meme man, himself I predict a valiant 2-1 loss but wouldn't be surprised if we raised our game for this and dug out a draw.

O-Nut: Dave is capable of defending himself, but I too would have used the words 'stumble upon' because a large body of evidence (ie. his managerial career thus far) suggests he does not display tactical/managerial excellence with enough regularity to warrant any kinder term! The use of the term, for me at least, demonstrates our assessment of what I believe him to be generally capable of - not much. Crouch scored a great goal last season and he meant it. He could stumble across a similar goal this season, and he may very well mean it, but it's definitely not his level in my view - based on watching him over the longer term. I also don't believe he will get stick no matter what, either. There's nothing innate or inalienable to Pardew that stops him from being liked or a fan's favourite*. [* - well, among the majority]. Fans are a fickle bunch, very much willing to be won over by showing dignity, honesty, bravery, intelligence and skill. Sadly for him, he's a weasely arsehole to compound his poor managerial skills though.

Just caught up four pages. Nelsen is better than Williamson, but not much better. If we're going to make a step up, make a real step up. Otherwise two weeks into his tenure, he'll get burned for pace by Shane Long in a game where he's not allowed to sit in his own area with a midfield four in front of him in his own half - and we'll hear the usual stick being given to the CB who tries hard and is a model pro - but simply doesn't have the requisite ability. Have nothing concrete to substantiate my deduction/inference from Pardew's comments, buuut: Pardew had a word to Colo about pulling his socks up defensively, to which Colo took offence. FWIW, I don't think Colo has been at his best recently - far from it in fact. Pardew obviously places a great deal of emphasis on keeping a clean sheet, and its fairly key to his strategy of "nick a goal and keep it tight". In the absence of our star players up top not producing as much individual brilliance, the defensive frailty has undermined his gameplan completely - which has him riled, as it's supposed to be the foundation of what he considers to be success. Why Colo took offence I'm not sure - because he thinks he has been playing fine or something else. I hope it was something else/more dressing room dissent*. * - still have hope, no matter how remote, that Ashley will turn on his stooge like any cold-hearted businessman that needs to

He wasn't IMO, Ba was the best, but I get your point. He has Rooney (and somehow Bale's) number. Rooney usually resorts to crying to the ref about it.

He might have had worse games I didn't see, but that's probably the worst I've ever seen him play. Shame to see him like that, frankly. Such phenomenal natural talent. In the 3-0 last season he was awful and got hauled off pretty early in the 2nd half. was immense.

You can't win anything with new technology.

You've done really well this first half of the season tbf, but you'll have to strengthen in January if you want to keep up with the top pack, maybe bring in a new keyboard and a mousemat to bolster your ranks and give you a few options. I understand Barnes23 may have as many as two monitors by the time February rolls around.

3 points and -6 goal difference from trips to Anfield and Stamford Bridge isn't bad. Couldn't understand why they persisted on on continuing to be so open though, even at 4-0 down. Asking for it.

Surprised they have been written out of the title race so early, myself. With a decent manager (which they now have), they have a chance.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2267/2413215395_b5f2de35be_z.jpg?zz=1

Bringing on Ramires now. That's just cruel