gazza ladra

2-0 Martins and Duff

Snap their arms off! err.

Depends. Might play Duff at left back and Zog on the left wing. Might pair Zog with Parker and play Duff on the left wing. (who knows if Emre will play again) Zog wasn't that impressive and Duff has looked better recently (albeit against part-timers) Still waiting for Duff to come through.

Agree. Much better than Babel. Should definitely be a target if we are looking for strikers. If money is a consideration, we should probably be looking elsewhere first.

Don't know a lot about bookmaking... but don't they adjust the odds based on the number of bets they receive one way or the other? Odds are long if no one is betting on the team. Shorten if they receive a lot of bets.

How many black people have the required badges? How many black people are interested in coaching and management? How many imagine racism where it may not/or does not exist, and therefore don't apply for jobs or go on coaching courses because of that? Indeed how many apply for jobs full stop? John Barnes didn't have to apply for a job, Ince got himself a job, so did Kieth Curle and others. How many academies have you been to? You don't know how many black people work behind the scenes in football as coaches or how many are, as I write, doing their coaching badges. If black people pack up their boots and decied to drop out of football altogether after retiring, because they think chairman only want white managers or white coaches or because the low numbers discourage them, more fool them and do you know what, the game doesn't need people like that who are unwilling to climb walls or smash them down. Racism is a hurdle, a big one without a doubt, for any individual who has to deal with it, but not insurmountable. 30-40 years ago, black kids were being jeered at junior games by parents for being black, pelted with bananas and spat at by fellow kids on the opposition team, some of their own team-mates wouldn't even pass to them, they overcome all that to become a permanent fixture of our game, a part of our game's history and today, they are very much a part of its future, as players, managers and coaches, racism or no racism, if they have the desire, attitude and above all else, the talent, they will succeed. They may have to climb a few walls but then, when has life ever been easy, whether you happen to be black or white... I'd say based on the musings of people like Kris Kamara who have spoke in great detail about this issue a number of times now, that it isn't just racist attitudes that need to change, but the attitudes of many would-be black managers or black coaches regarding racism. Kamara thinks one day we'll see many ill-equipped, unskilled black managers in jobs not because they are talented or have earned their spurs, but simply to make up some ridiculous quota, or the result of a sympathy vote, and that would be a real shame and totaly the wrong way to go. Fair enough. Earlier in this thread I asked that very question -- how many blacks are acquiring the badges? Comparing the relative percentages of blacks who are acquiring badges versus those that are hired, would be the most telling number and would be the place to start if we want a serious discussion of the topic.

I disagree. Not the numbers in the total population, but the number of people in the game provide a better picture of the situation. It is unreasonable to think Asians would be represented, because there are so few in the game. One would expect that there would be more black coaches because there are more that are in the game and, therefore, more that are qualified. Only those three reasons. Are you positive that it is only three possible reasons? Blame? you don't even acknowledge it is a possibility. It is easier to deny it even exists and to shout down the topic. If? You just stated there are three reasons... and racism wasn't one of them. Ok, anyway, now that you allow that walls might exist (although at best they present only a small obstacle-- not as bad as portrayed. And then you have the gall to blame Crooks for not standing up and break down those walls. Just a minute ago you weren't even allowing for the possibility of racism as a cause and now you are comparing Crooks to a sledgehammer. What the f*** is up with that? Yes. But none of this is as simple or easy as you claim. For you, apparently, it is all crystal clear. I assume that is because you choose not to look at the whole picture.

No, not really. I am glad to see that you acknowledge that you should not have added the FACT the statement of opinion. I would hope that you would reconsider that opinion and reflect on how you arrived at that belief. It would be good for you.

Tried telling certain people this throughout the thread, your spot on opinion or near as damn it FACT mackems.gif is lost on certain individuals. again? Is it not a fact there are more black players in the game these days than back in the 80s? Are you stupid or thick? There are facts and there are the conclusions that are drawn from those facts. The fact that there are more players now than there were in the past does not support the other statements that you are offering as FACTS. ie. that anti-racism campaigns are proof of a lack of racism in club boardrooms that blacks are too lazy to apply for the correct badges that blacks can't be arsed to do the work that racism doesn't exist, isn't that bad, is just an excuse and on and on. I was laughing at your habit of throwing out an opinion (often a ill-considered, prejudiced one) and thinking, apparently, that it is validated by typing the word FACT in uppercase.

Tried telling certain people this throughout the thread, your spot on opinion or near as damn it FACT mackems.gif is lost on certain individuals. again?

Actually, we've been racking up points over the past couple of seasons and are ranked very highly. This is because we've been in the UEFA Cup and not the Champions League and so are facing clubs from Belgium and the like.

UEFA Team Ranking 2007 http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/trank2007.html 1 AC Milan Ita 2 FC Barcelona Esp 3 Internazionale Ita 4 Real Madrid Esp 5 Liverpool Eng 6 Arsenal 7 Olympique Lyon 8 Valencia Esp 9 Juventus Ita 10 Newcastle United Eng 11 Manchester United Eng 12 Chelsea Eng UEFA Team Coefficients 2006/2007 http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/tcoef2007.html 1 Espanyol Esp 2 Newcastle United Eng 3 Liverpool Eng 4 Valencia Esp 5 Real Madrid Esp 6 Olympique Lyon 7 Chelsea Eng 8 Manchester United 9 Sevilla Esp 10 FC Barcelona Esp

Looking at the list you'd think that NUFC is the team that everyone wants to avoid.

Alright. I need to know. Did you go back through all of his columns and compile this list or did you start doing this from the beginning of the season? I won't ask why you've done it. Still, it is interesting

Yeah, maybe we could pick up that Amdy Faye guy. Heard he scored a game winning goal a few weeks back. I said "best" players. Sad thing is. He IS one of their best players.

Yeah, maybe we could pick up that Amdy Faye guy. Heard he scored a game winning goal a few weeks back.

Like to see West Ham go down. They have more that is worth buying on the cheap.

Yes, you can. A few years ago, perhaps twenty years ago now an interview was broadcast on American television with a man named Al Campanis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Campanis in which this boardroom insider claimed that blacks lacked the necessarily requirements to be baseball managers. Read it for an education. Al Campanis worked for the Los Angeles Dodgers- the team that broke the race barrier in American baseball and first hired a black player, Jackie Robinson, in 1947. The club was long renowned and celebrated as the club that did the most to bring equal opportunities to everyone regardless of their race. His statements were so shocking precisely because he worked for the Dodgers and not, say, the Cincinnati Reds-- a club that might be compared to Everton. True. But comparing yourself with Spain doesn't really do you any favors. If an American politican in 1960s America tried to claim there was no racism in this country by pointing at South Africa, would you believe him? All good, but the highlighted which is disingenuous, dishonest, and, in my opinion, willfully ignorant. Here we witness a general decline into bullshit. Sad really No arguments to refute, just ugly bullshit

It is plausible. It is equally plausible that blacks do "read-the-writing on the wall", and don't bother applying. I don't know. Neither option should be dismissed out of hand.

Speak as you find, of course - or rather from your own standpoint. I have personally found that the racism-shouters will say there's LESS racism when it suites them, or MORE when they're argueing that. Duke of Wellington could have been talking about the PC career racist-shouters when he said "Lies, damn lies, and statistics" Yes, and Disraeli said "Most people use statistics the way that a drunk uses a light post-- more for support than for illumination" I am trying to use statistics to illuminate the issue and enable us to discuss an emotionally-charged topic rationally. My point was that, in my experience, it is the so-called "racism-shouters" who are the ones who make the appeals to reason and the racism-deniers who, inevitably, do the shouting. Crooks presented an argument. If you disagree, refute it with facts. Hard numbers are a good place to start.

To me it is incredible that any discussion of racism in society immediately leads to one side charging the other with gross simplification and ignorance, Crooks makes a statement. His character is impugned. His looks are mocked. His arguments are dismissed out-of-hand without consideration. No facts are presented. The science of statistics are dismissed, again, out-of-hand eliminating the basis of all rational discussion. False analogies and poor, irrelevant arguments are repeated and repeated again. And again. As if merely repeating a prejudice is enough to win the argument. Fact. mackems.gif And inevitably, the side that accuses the other of ignorance is the side that claims that no racism exists. Oh, irony.

I found that book pretty disappointing. Basically, it is a rehashing of Simon Kuper's superior "Football Against the Enemy". Though the chapter on football in Iran is pretty good and the one one football/politics in the former Yugoslavia is interesting, the rest--- Rangers/Celtic, Barcelona/Real Madrid, etc.-- has been been covered ad nauseam. He doesn't really add anything. Haven't read Kuper's book mate, but I saw in the Amazon review this one referred to as Kuper-lite, so it sounds like you're probably spot on re him not adding anything. Is the Kuper one worth a read then? I think I found Foer's book disappointing because I read Kuper's book first. Had I read Foer then Kuper perhaps I'd have a different attitude. Still, I think that Kuper's book is superior. Kuper-lite is a fair assessment, I think. I haven't read Football Against the Enemy in a couple of years-- it came out over a decade ago-- but I remember him being particularly strong on South Africa and the United States (he's lived in both) and eastern Europe-- East Germany and the Soviet Union. As a child growing up in the late 70s soccer-madness that came in wake of Pele playing for the Cosmos, I can attest to everything he writes about the state of the game in California at the time. One of the best parts (for me) is where he writes about attending San Jose Earthquake game where the crowd was more preoccupied with doing the wave around the stadium than watching the game-- 100% true. Also, he has this humorous bit about soccer "coaches" --dads who only knew American football-- calling out "plays" from the sidelines--100% true. (Incidentally, he mentions "Crazy George". Crazy George is the man responsible for the wave --known in Europe as the "Mexican wave". He started it at college games in the Pacific northwest (I think) before bringing it to San Jose. He started working baseball games in Oakland in 80-81 or so, and from there it spread to baseball stadiums around the US. From there it was picked up by Mexican-Americans. Mexico 1986 and all that followed shortly after. So, anyway, Crazy George is to blame) Foer is a decent writer and he fully acknowledges that his book is inspired by Kuper's book-- he says as much in the acknowledgments. And the success of his book has lead to the recent publication of Kuper's book (for the first time I think) in the United States as "Soccer Against the Enemy". Foer has a lot of fans and he's been pretty successful-- he's taken on the role of editor at the New Republic, one of the nation's oldest and most prestigious magazines. They've been losing readers in droves during his tenure. Don't know if this has anything to do with Foer. The magazine has recently lurched to the right-- being one of the few (the only) traditionally liberal magazines to support Bush's war in Iraq. They've pretty much alienated their readership.

No.

Goes without saying. Though if we're including injured players.... Owen would be my number 1, errr. I mean number 2.

Second only to Martins imo.