Cronky

You got me. I don't know what Obertan is offering that Ben Arfa and Marveaux can't. Pardew is a conservative thinker. He doesn't want to change a winning side.

That team is just not set up to sit on a lead. Whenever we tried to keep possession, the ball ended up going backwards, the players came under more and more pressure, and we ended up giving it away. If you're playing with two out and out strikers like that, you have to keep getting the ball forward and supporting them. Otherwise they're isolated and they get knackered. If you're trying to keep possession, put on another midfield player. Wenger gets unjustly criticised for continuing to attack when he's ahead. But it's important to keep the initiative.

This is a bit frustrating. We're not a team that can sit on a lead.

I wish he'd help out in defence with a bit more conviction. They're creating things down our right flank and Simpson needs a bit more help. But overall, it looks comfortable.

I'd describe him as box-to-box. He's not that quick, but apart from that he looks a great all-rounder.

Fellaini always impresses.

Yep, muscle and pace. He uses his brain to compensate, and usually that's enough. Occasionally, it isn't. Woodgate as a defender was pretty much the complete package. There's really no comparison.

Mancini has somewhat blocked his employers' room for manouevre with that 'he'll never play again' statement. I can't see how they can kiss and make up or form any compromise without Mancini being undermined now. The most likely outcome is that he goes out on loan this season. I understand that his family have just moved over here, so he probably won't want to go too far.

I wouldn't claim to know every single member of that reserve team at Swansea, but it actually looks a bit nifty on paper. I'm not surprised they're doing well.

I can't see that Ashley's decision was entirely based on business considerations. Otherwise he would have done due diligence. I don't doubt that the idea of promoting his business overseas was somewhere in his mind, but it seems to me that he'd only just pocketed £800 million or so from the partial sale of SD, and the thought of paying cash for one of the bigger clubs in Football was too much for him to resist. I do believe he's a genuine football fan and there was some emotional impulse behind it as well. He's paid a big price for his moment of madness of course. I think when people mention the fact that he's put in a lot of money it isn't to try and attract sympathy. For sure, he has to take responsibility for his actions. It usually just comes out in reaction to these comments that he's 'asset stripping', or otherwise ripping the fans off, which is nonsense.

"Someone" would have funded the club - good to know that. I too have seen some horrendous balance sheets and yes some of these businesses survived. I have never said the club would have gone into any sort of insolvency, but it was technically insolvent and had borrowed against every asset and revenue source. Ashley had to guarantee to fund it to ensure its going concern status - it was in REAL difficulty. So Shepherd said things weren't as bad as made out, he is is of course the man who said the club made a profit every year he was there. Numbers with brackets around them obviously don't count as losses in his world. We needed someone with proper cash resources to come in and fund it. One or two potential buyers had a look and we got Ashley who could fund it but was clueless as to how to run it. And no other f*cker wanted it. Whether you choose to go to games or not is, as you say, your call. Ashley owns it, he runs it how he likes and if you don't like it then you can stay away. For me I know what Ashley is like, I think he's a spiv but there again I don't like the look of quite a few football club owners. I'm more bothered about what happens on the pitch than taking umbrage at what he does. Just about all of us on here have supported the club even when it has been in absolute turmoil. It feels like a life sentence at times. But if the club puts some good entertaining players out there I want to see them play and want them to do well. Each to their own.... Do you think he would have bought the club if he had done due diligence? P Interesting question. He could certainly afford to absorb any unpleasant financial surprises, but I suspect he wouldn't have bought it. It must have tied up way more of his capital than he ever expected. Also I don't think he realised the extent to which his every decision and mistake would be analysed by both fans and media. He ran SD and pretty much did exactly what he liked there without being challenged much. And on the odd occasion when he was challenged by investors he simply berated them. He also totally failed to understand the mentality of footballers and, in particular, football managers. And that led to some of his more costly mistakes. I would think that given his time again he wouldn't have done the deal. He might still have gone ahead, but reduced his offer. The Halls were desperate to get out and they probably couldn't believe their luck at the offer they got, which I think was about £1 per share. The Stock Market listing was about 20p if IIRC.

I was thinking earlier today that I can't remember a top side before like Man City, where the second team is so close in standard to the first team. Trouble is, you're then liable to have some big name players and big egos who aren't going to be happy with that situation, and one or two may feel powerful enough to make waves. Someone once said that football management is about keeping 11 players happy - the reserve team. The others are already happy because they're in the first team.

I'd like to give Ranger a new brain.

You mean a publicity stunt by the two people who text David Craig and send him bacon sandwiches. The same people who were forced to admit they lied to us via the media. Stop excusing them man, it's beyond embarrassing. There was supposedly a helicopter there, but I think everyone knew there was no chance of it happening and that was probably the idea as Pardew said he knew long before then nobody would be getting signed, much to his annoyance. Reading through the Ruiz thread it's still unclear really. There are quotes from Ruiz's agent saying we made a move, but even that doesn't prove there was real intent. Pretty much everything else could be down to manipulation of the press as far as I can see. But I repeat, why would Ashley/Dekka go to such lengths. They don't seem to care how they offend the fans in any other area. To revel in the fans' disappointment. didn't craig he see was told by the twente chairman that they had accepted 'our' bid ? was he in on it aswell ? So you really believe the Twente chairman rang David Craig from Sky Sports News out of the blue (as he claimed he had) to tell him about a transfer deal? no i don't, thats my point. i don't really believe the info that we had a bid accepted came from us either as it's pretty easy for that to be shot down. My memory is that the information came from the Twente Chairman. Ruiz's agent could have started the whole thing off though. From the point of view of the selling club and the agent, it's not a bad idea to make a noise about another club being interested, just as negotiations are nearing a conclusion. There's always the chance that sticking points like the fee and the wages then get resolved in your favour. My guess is that we expressed an interest, which ended when we were quoted the amount that Fulham had bid.

Some good points, Chez, but I'd take issue on a couple. Unless you were being ironic, I can't see how you can suggest that Ashley either wanted the club relegated, or didn't care whether or not we went down. Relegation is always going to be costly in so many ways, and could have been a disaster if we hadn't got back up first time. It was the culmination of the terrible double decision a) to appoint Keegan and b) to put him in a DOF structure. Chaos followed, and Ashley completely lost control of the situation. Secondly, you quote Sean Custis, and this idea that 'another' fuck-up is probably just around the corner, given Ashley's record. In practice, the major fuck-up over Keegan and Wise dwarfs anything else you could label as a mistake, and that style of mistake won't be repeated. As you half-acknowledge yourself, a number of the decisions which have subsequently been labelled by many as fuck-ups (The Carroll sale, the Hughton sacking, Pardew etc) now don't look so bad after all. Ashley's a difficult bloke to read. He's had an unorthodox business career, and he's very much his own man now when it comes to running the club. It's interesting that he made a lot of money in business by taking old brands that had supposedly run out of steam (Slazenger, Lonsdale etc) and re-invigorated them. A lot of the players we've bought (eg Ben Arfa, Marveaux, Santon) have had careers which have hit the buffers after a promising beginning, or have been seen as high injury risks (Ba, Gosling) He seems to like to take a punt on players who, for one reason or another, may be under-rated by general opinion in the game, but whose potential can still be tapped. He likes to go against the grain. He's got to grips with the job more now and seems more confident, and I'm optimistic about where we're going.

He's not very skilful on the ball, so I can accept that in attack, his contribution is going to be erratic. However, he's strong enough and quick enough to do a decent enough job in defence. Not fantastic, but decent enough. The trouble is, he's so scared of making a mistake and getting beaten that he leaves the attacker too much room. He's lacking courage - not in the physical sense, but mental. He could do better.

Tiote, Cabaye, Marveaux, Ben-Arfa, Santone, Abeid..... Havent these all arrived under his watch and probably a few others who slip my mind? what are we actually saying about these signings? french league winning captain well known french ligue 1 winger bound for liverpool 5 times (?) ligue 1 winner and all round famous frenchie ex-wonderkid italian u21 international and 'new maldini' as much as carr, unless it falls under his remit, the people who are sniffing out the deals and finalising them deserve massive amounts of credit imo Exactly. True, but who are we talking here, Llambias? Charnley? Are there others who actually do most of the spadework? Either way, top stuff on the recruitment side, staff as well as the players tbh. Shame they fucked up so royally when it came to the task of getting a goddamn striker in. If we’ve still got a problem in the striking department, it doesn’t seem to be a big one. It’s unfortunate that this search for another striker got held up as the deal breaker for whether the transfer window was a failure or not. It now remains to be seen whether Ashley / Llambias were right in sticking to their guns and not over-paying for someone who wasn’t going to improve us by very much. If we’re still in the top six by January, we might well be able to attract a better striker than was possible in August.

I didn't think the ref did that bad. The first one was a penalty. The defender deliberately gave him a tug to stop him getting on the end of a chance. It may have been slight, but you don't have to commit GBH to make a player stumble. It was a good spot and the ref had the courage to give it. I don't see the relevance of it not being spotted by the crowd. The third one wasn't a pen. If a cross gets blasted at a player at close quarters like that, unless the defender deliberately moves his hand, the pen shouldn't be given. If anything, too many pens get given in that situation. The second one does look like a pen with the benefit of replays, but in real time it's hard to be sure whether the ball hits him on the hip or the arm. In all probability a mistake, but not a terrible one. Warnock is a joke. He gave that lecture to Traore when he came off, but how can he expect his players to keep their composure when he can't. Deserves a wacking big fine and will get one.

Just watched Football First. Tiote looked back to his best. Full of energy and confidence and that gave the whole team a boost. Best may not be the most elegant of players, but his strength and fitness is causing defenders problems. Ba looked far more energetic. Obertan is giving us a threat on the break which we've previously been lacking. I've got a real downer on Simpson though. His non-challenge on Olsson when he hit the bar was pathetic. He also did poorly for two of the goals against Forest. Basically, he looks frightened and he needs to get his act together quick.

Well yeah, if you'd rather look at a website where everyone thinks the same way and the only debate is who can shout the loudest, then Toontastic is the one for you. I prefer it over here because you do get a few people who can think for themselves a bit.

Why should Newcastle United and Sports Direct be associated? Because they are owned by the same person? Do all sports clubs owners associate the clubs they own with other organisations in their portfolio? The only thing that links NUFC and SD is Mike Ashley. Sports Direct isn't a local company, it has no historical ties to the club - why should we have to accept providing them with free advertising that stains our stadium? I wasn't trying to suggest that SD should be a side interest to Ashley, but why should the fans of this club be forced to support his brand? "to promote his side interest" So that's exactly what you were trying to suggest. That is the only reason for the association... Which is wrong. He is using NUFC to promote his own company, that is what I disagree with. The 2008 and 2009 accounts suggest NUFC paid SD £47,000 for the privilege of branding in SD! The concept that we are in fact 'supporting' SD is strengthened, when you consider the opportunity cost of not having a stadium sponsor that actually pays for advertising... It looks truly horrible and, personally, I see it as having degraded a great stadium. But as far as the money side is concerned it's part of the deal with having Ashley own us. Just reading this forum it's obvious that plenty of people want him gone. As ever it's up to the individual as how much good they think he has done and is doing. But if we were funded by externally borrowed money we would be paying huge chunks of interest. In fact I shudder to think what rate we would be paying. If there is anyone around who would lend £140 million (or even half that) to a technically insolvent business they would want a substantial margin for doing so. Ashley is a package deal - like it or not. Sums the situation up. People need to get away from the reasoning that they don't like Ashley and therefore anything that harms him or his business is good for the club. In practice, it can work the other way. If Sports Direct flourishes because of its association with the club, then that can encourage greater investment in the team to raise the club's profile in overseas markets still further. Of course that's less likely to happen if Ashley is bombarded by hostile messages about his involvement. The other point is - what's the alternative? The local businessman made good isn't going to be able to compete at the top end of the game. There aren't that many oil billionaires around and their room for manoevre is likely to be squeezed by Financial Fair Play. We've seen money spent at QPR and Liverpool by new owners recently but they've made it clear that it's a one-off and the clubs are going to have to balance the books. (Questionable whether these time-limited spending sprees work anyway, but that's another issue)

That's a bad blow for Wenger. He really needed Wilshere to kick-start their attacking play again. My impression though is that it's Wenger's own fault. Being a vital player, Wenger tried to rush him back after injury IIRC and looks to have made the situation worse.

In the way that matters on a football field, he isn't quick. Put him in a quick team and he'll slow them down.

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but Pardew is saying he doesn't want to play him on the wing - that he's much more effective inside. Makes sense. Give him as much of the ball as possible, and don't let him become peripheral to the action.

He's football's John McClane - the wrong guy in the wrong place at the wrong time.