TRon

I knew this would happen with Duff and one or two others, shame it took such a massive game for the penny to drop. Can't blame Kinnear for starting this eleven but there are some players in that team I really don't want to see in a Newcastle shirt again unless we have a chronic injury crisis.

All our managers seem to favour Butt, Duff and Smith until the wheels fall off and they are forced into change. JK is old school and probably wants his big man to be jumping and battling so maybe he feels Ameobi being bigger can do it better. Shola's done ok, but once we get Barton and Jonas back in the side we will get a better idea on Xisco.

Aye, it's almost as if some of us are from Newcastle-upon-Tyne. What a stupid f***ing thing to say. What? Now that was a stupid thing to say. Blaming the system, the owners, Kinnear etc is bloody stupid and pointless. They pretty much had their strongest team out and we didn't even come close. I think we would have beaten them easily otherwise. We played alright on the whole and they played well. But hey let's play the blame game all over again! That's so much more fun! I blame Owne for having muscle tissue made out of tissue paper! I blame Freddy Shepherd and John Hall for selling the club to that evil non-Geordie Mike Ashley! I blame Keegan for being a stroppy little man! yada, yada, yada, yada bollox. Two players (Owen, Viduka) from our best team. Sorry, but you can't blame injuries on this one. Jonas got 15 mins because he only just returned, as did Barton. If they are fit enough to play the 90, we win this game easily imo. Beye still isn't quite right either and Martins doesn't look very sharp. How would we win it easily? When they'd both probably be bypassed anyway with the ball being aimed far beyond their reaches. Did you watch the match? Did you see what happened after they both came on? You don't have the first clue what this means to people from this area so why bother offering comment? f***s sake What's your problem? Kaka thinks I'm overreacting. I say that when he's actually seen the Tyne Bridge, he'll have the right to tell me I'm overreacting to a derby defeat. Until then, he should keep his f***ing nose out. you're telling him he shouldnt even bother having an opinion because he's not local? classic. He's not allowed to tell me I'm overreacting, no. Fairly f***ing obvious iyam. mackems.gif Look mate - do you think Keegn would of lost that game? With players he bought? No. Not what i asked. Squirm as much as you like mate - but you know your way off with this one. f***ing disgraceful result, i know but JK is responsible for this one. The quality of the squad is not to blame for this result. I think JK is ok as an interim manager and have said that from the start. He got this one wrong, but I can remember people tearing their hair out over some of Keegan's selctions last season as well before he finally clicked by dropping Smith and Duff and bringing in Viduka and Martins. Let's not knee jerk too quickly eh? Ironic much? I never said he was a s*** manager blah blah blah, I'm not talking about his merits as manager of our club, all im saying is that in my eyes he was 90% responsible for that result, the team selection wasnt great, the subs werent great, the tactics were appaling in my opinion, he set that team out to be scared of the sunderland team, long ball etc etc. The team selection was fine going off what he'd seen previously. Geremi and Duff disappearing up their own arses is something those of us who have been watching a while have got used to, but JK obviously thought they would perform like in the last two games. The subs weren't great, I'll agree on that. If the long ball was a ploy rather than just players losing their nerve and hoofing it then I'll agree on that as well. If its fair to say Joe is responsible for tactics then what are we arguing about? I'm not convinced it was tactics which lost the game, rather than players not showing up when the pressure was on. To play pass and move the players have to want the ball, not go into hiding. Isnt this where the skill of the manager comes into play? You know, to make sure the players do this. Surely he wouldnt of let them play like that for the whole 90 if it was never the plan. Possibly. I can remember it used to happen even in SBR's time though, especially in his last year in charge. Players took the easy option and whacked it long to Shearer. So wasnt SBR ultimately responsible for that? Simple point mate. You also need players who can keep their heads and execute the game plan when the heat is on. So Duff for example might be shit hot in a friendly against Darlington, but might go missing in the frenzy of a local derby. The point i was making about JK is that he's fairly new to these players so he might not know much about them just yet.

Similar to why I tend to defend Zog as a left winger. I can see he plays head down and over-dribbles but he offers pace and movement when he's motivated. I would love to see a midfield of Zog, Barton, Guthrie and Jonas given a shot with Guthrie playing the holding role. it would be interesting to see how the extra running and movement would affect the passing. Overlapping full backs would come into the equation as well in a team set out to use them.

Exactly. It was so noticeable, and Jonas in particular is superb at holding the ball under intense pressure. It makes all the difference to whether a team can impose it's style or whether you get dragged down to Championship level. Would Man U or Chelsea plyers ever get hustled out of their game? I know they have better players but shouldn't ours be capable of at least being able to match donkeys like Sunderland for football ability?

Aye, it's almost as if some of us are from Newcastle-upon-Tyne. What a stupid f***ing thing to say. What? Now that was a stupid thing to say. Blaming the system, the owners, Kinnear etc is bloody stupid and pointless. They pretty much had their strongest team out and we didn't even come close. I think we would have beaten them easily otherwise. We played alright on the whole and they played well. But hey let's play the blame game all over again! That's so much more fun! I blame Owne for having muscle tissue made out of tissue paper! I blame Freddy Shepherd and John Hall for selling the club to that evil non-Geordie Mike Ashley! I blame Keegan for being a stroppy little man! yada, yada, yada, yada bollox. Two players (Owen, Viduka) from our best team. Sorry, but you can't blame injuries on this one. Jonas got 15 mins because he only just returned, as did Barton. If they are fit enough to play the 90, we win this game easily imo. Beye still isn't quite right either and Martins doesn't look very sharp. How would we win it easily? When they'd both probably be bypassed anyway with the ball being aimed far beyond their reaches. Did you watch the match? Did you see what happened after they both came on? You don't have the first clue what this means to people from this area so why bother offering comment? f***s sake What's your problem? Kaka thinks I'm overreacting. I say that when he's actually seen the Tyne Bridge, he'll have the right to tell me I'm overreacting to a derby defeat. Until then, he should keep his f***ing nose out. you're telling him he shouldnt even bother having an opinion because he's not local? classic. He's not allowed to tell me I'm overreacting, no. Fairly f***ing obvious iyam. mackems.gif Look mate - do you think Keegn would of lost that game? With players he bought? No. Not what i asked. Squirm as much as you like mate - but you know your way off with this one. f***ing disgraceful result, i know but JK is responsible for this one. The quality of the squad is not to blame for this result. I think JK is ok as an interim manager and have said that from the start. He got this one wrong, but I can remember people tearing their hair out over some of Keegan's selctions last season as well before he finally clicked by dropping Smith and Duff and bringing in Viduka and Martins. Let's not knee jerk too quickly eh? Ironic much? I never said he was a s*** manager blah blah blah, I'm not talking about his merits as manager of our club, all im saying is that in my eyes he was 90% responsible for that result, the team selection wasnt great, the subs werent great, the tactics were appaling in my opinion, he set that team out to be scared of the sunderland team, long ball etc etc. The team selection was fine going off what he'd seen previously. Geremi and Duff disappearing up their own arses is something those of us who have been watching a while have got used to, but JK obviously thought they would perform like in the last two games. The subs weren't great, I'll agree on that. If the long ball was a ploy rather than just players losing their nerve and hoofing it then I'll agree on that as well. If its fair to say Joe is responsible for tactics then what are we arguing about? I'm not convinced it was tactics which lost the game, rather than players not showing up when the pressure was on. To play pass and move the players have to want the ball, not go into hiding. Isnt this where the skill of the manager comes into play? You know, to make sure the players do this. Surely he wouldnt of let them play like that for the whole 90 if it was never the plan. Possibly. I can remember it used to happen even in SBR's time though, especially in his last year in charge. Players took the easy option and whacked it long to Shearer.

One thing which impressed me about Keegan last season considering we were in the middle of a relegation battle was this remark - about being brave enough to play football. About wanting the ball, running off the ball giving options. i don't want this to turn into a thread about Ashley this is about how many of our players are brave enough in this regard? Duff has ability, we've seen that. Geremi looks good sometimes, other times you forget he's on the pitch. Why do we find it so difficult to keep the ball under pressure? Why can't our defenders pass the ball out instead of hoofing it? Is it the tactics are wrong or too many of the players are spineless or just not good enough?

Aye, it's almost as if some of us are from Newcastle-upon-Tyne. What a stupid f***ing thing to say. What? Now that was a stupid thing to say. Blaming the system, the owners, Kinnear etc is bloody stupid and pointless. They pretty much had their strongest team out and we didn't even come close. I think we would have beaten them easily otherwise. We played alright on the whole and they played well. But hey let's play the blame game all over again! That's so much more fun! I blame Owne for having muscle tissue made out of tissue paper! I blame Freddy Shepherd and John Hall for selling the club to that evil non-Geordie Mike Ashley! I blame Keegan for being a stroppy little man! yada, yada, yada, yada bollox. Two players (Owen, Viduka) from our best team. Sorry, but you can't blame injuries on this one. Jonas got 15 mins because he only just returned, as did Barton. If they are fit enough to play the 90, we win this game easily imo. Beye still isn't quite right either and Martins doesn't look very sharp. How would we win it easily? When they'd both probably be bypassed anyway with the ball being aimed far beyond their reaches. Did you watch the match? Did you see what happened after they both came on? You don't have the first clue what this means to people from this area so why bother offering comment? f***s sake What's your problem? Kaka thinks I'm overreacting. I say that when he's actually seen the Tyne Bridge, he'll have the right to tell me I'm overreacting to a derby defeat. Until then, he should keep his f***ing nose out. you're telling him he shouldnt even bother having an opinion because he's not local? classic. He's not allowed to tell me I'm overreacting, no. Fairly f***ing obvious iyam. mackems.gif Look mate - do you think Keegn would of lost that game? With players he bought? No. Not what i asked. Squirm as much as you like mate - but you know your way off with this one. f***ing disgraceful result, i know but JK is responsible for this one. The quality of the squad is not to blame for this result. I think JK is ok as an interim manager and have said that from the start. He got this one wrong, but I can remember people tearing their hair out over some of Keegan's selctions last season as well before he finally clicked by dropping Smith and Duff and bringing in Viduka and Martins. Let's not knee jerk too quickly eh? Ironic much? I never said he was a s*** manager blah blah blah, I'm not talking about his merits as manager of our club, all im saying is that in my eyes he was 90% responsible for that result, the team selection wasnt great, the subs werent great, the tactics were appaling in my opinion, he set that team out to be scared of the sunderland team, long ball etc etc. The team selection was fine going off what he'd seen previously. Geremi and Duff disappearing up their own arses is something those of us who have been watching a while have got used to, but JK obviously thought they would perform like in the last two games. The subs weren't great, I'll agree on that. If the long ball was a ploy rather than just players losing their nerve and hoofing it then I'll agree on that as well. If its fair to say Joe is responsible for tactics then what are we arguing about? I'm not convinced it was tactics which lost the game, rather than players not showing up when the pressure was on. To play pass and move the players have to want the ball, not go into hiding.

Aye, it's almost as if some of us are from Newcastle-upon-Tyne. What a stupid f***ing thing to say. What? Now that was a stupid thing to say. Blaming the system, the owners, Kinnear etc is bloody stupid and pointless. They pretty much had their strongest team out and we didn't even come close. I think we would have beaten them easily otherwise. We played alright on the whole and they played well. But hey let's play the blame game all over again! That's so much more fun! I blame Owne for having muscle tissue made out of tissue paper! I blame Freddy Shepherd and John Hall for selling the club to that evil non-Geordie Mike Ashley! I blame Keegan for being a stroppy little man! yada, yada, yada, yada bollox. Two players (Owen, Viduka) from our best team. Sorry, but you can't blame injuries on this one. Jonas got 15 mins because he only just returned, as did Barton. If they are fit enough to play the 90, we win this game easily imo. Beye still isn't quite right either and Martins doesn't look very sharp. How would we win it easily? When they'd both probably be bypassed anyway with the ball being aimed far beyond their reaches. Did you watch the match? Did you see what happened after they both came on? You don't have the first clue what this means to people from this area so why bother offering comment? f***s sake What's your problem? Kaka thinks I'm overreacting. I say that when he's actually seen the Tyne Bridge, he'll have the right to tell me I'm overreacting to a derby defeat. Until then, he should keep his f***ing nose out. you're telling him he shouldnt even bother having an opinion because he's not local? classic. He's not allowed to tell me I'm overreacting, no. Fairly f***ing obvious iyam. mackems.gif Look mate - do you think Keegn would of lost that game? With players he bought? No. Not what i asked. Squirm as much as you like mate - but you know your way off with this one. f***ing disgraceful result, i know but JK is responsible for this one. The quality of the squad is not to blame for this result. I think JK is ok as an interim manager and have said that from the start. He got this one wrong, but I can remember people tearing their hair out over some of Keegan's selctions last season as well before he finally clicked by dropping Smith and Duff and bringing in Viduka and Martins. Let's not knee jerk too quickly eh? Ironic much? I never said he was a shit manager blah blah blah, I'm not talking about his merits as manager of our club, all im saying is that in my eyes he was 90% responsible for that result, the team selection wasnt great, the subs werent great, the tactics were appaling in my opinion, he set that team out to be scared of the sunderland team, long ball etc etc. The team selection was fine going off what he'd seen previously. Geremi and Duff disappearing up their own arses is something those of us who have been watching a while have got used to, but JK obviously thought they would perform like in the last two games. The subs weren't great, I'll agree on that. If the long ball was a ploy rather than just players losing their nerve and hoofing it then I'll agree on that as well.

Good line up.

Aye, it's almost as if some of us are from Newcastle-upon-Tyne. What a stupid f***ing thing to say. What? Now that was a stupid thing to say. Blaming the system, the owners, Kinnear etc is bloody stupid and pointless. They pretty much had their strongest team out and we didn't even come close. I think we would have beaten them easily otherwise. We played alright on the whole and they played well. But hey let's play the blame game all over again! That's so much more fun! I blame Owne for having muscle tissue made out of tissue paper! I blame Freddy Shepherd and John Hall for selling the club to that evil non-Geordie Mike Ashley! I blame Keegan for being a stroppy little man! yada, yada, yada, yada bollox. Two players (Owen, Viduka) from our best team. Sorry, but you can't blame injuries on this one. Jonas got 15 mins because he only just returned, as did Barton. If they are fit enough to play the 90, we win this game easily imo. Beye still isn't quite right either and Martins doesn't look very sharp. How would we win it easily? When they'd both probably be bypassed anyway with the ball being aimed far beyond their reaches. Did you watch the match? Did you see what happened after they both came on? You don't have the first clue what this means to people from this area so why bother offering comment? f***s sake What's your problem? Kaka thinks I'm overreacting. I say that when he's actually seen the Tyne Bridge, he'll have the right to tell me I'm overreacting to a derby defeat. Until then, he should keep his f***ing nose out. you're telling him he shouldnt even bother having an opinion because he's not local? classic. He's not allowed to tell me I'm overreacting, no. Fairly f***ing obvious iyam. mackems.gif Look mate - do you think Keegn would of lost that game? With players he bought? No. Not what i asked. Squirm as much as you like mate - but you know your way off with this one. Fucking disgraceful result, i know but JK is responsible for this one. The quality of the squad is not to blame for this result. I think JK is ok as an interim manager and have said that from the start. He got this one wrong, but I can remember people tearing their hair out over some of Keegan's selctions last season as well before he finally clicked by dropping Smith and Duff and bringing in Viduka and Martins. Let's not knee jerk too quickly eh?

The other thing about Ashley is he is overweight. Not just a bit, quite a lot actually.

Look can you keep your comments on the game out of this thread, people are trying to have a meanigful moan about Ashley here. Now..as I was saying..this is all Ashley's fault.

He could have walked earlier if he wasn't getting backed, he waited until it was too late to change anything. well that answers your question doesnt it? he stayed while there was a chance to change things and left once there was no longer a chance. exactly the same as alan curbishley. Doesn't wash, what are these two 13 year olds still wet behind the ears? They will have taken it up with the appropriate people as soon as they sensed something wrong, most likely early summer. If nothing changes going into the last month do they still think they've got a chance at 'persuading' them to change anything? Get real. Did Keegan not chase it up when he had to travel all the way to the other end of the country. Pathetic. Did Ashley not say in the official club magazine Keegan had final say? Aye I'm sure he did. Oh well, I may as well join the rest of you folk and back Ashley over a man who has done everything for this club. I can see why people have backed Ashley over him though, I really can. I don't back him, not at all. I'm sick of this one way shit where everything is pinned on Ashley and where KK is made out to be a saint. Lots of straw clutching going on from a lot of quality posters who views on everything else I like reading, but when this subject comes up it's like a flick is switched and a wall forms in front of their eyes. Saddening. how come two managers left for the same reasons at the very same time? either it is sheer coincidence or is there an actual reason behind the timing and its the one tooj and me have outlined. It's ASHLEY'S FAULT! Let's keep discussing this in every thread

He could have walked earlier if he wasn't getting backed, he waited until it was too late to change anything. well that answers your question doesnt it? he stayed while there was a chance to change things and left once there was no longer a chance. exactly the same as alan curbishley. Doesn't wash, what are these two 13 year olds still wet behind the ears? They will have taken it up with the appropriate people as soon as they sensed something wrong, most likely early summer. If nothing changes going into the last month do they still think they've got a chance at 'persuading' them to change anything? Get real. Did Keegan not chase it up when he had to travel all the way to the other end of the country. Pathetic. Did Ashley not say in the official club magazine Keegan had final say? Aye I'm sure he did. Oh well, I may as well join the rest of you folk and back Ashley over a man who has done everything for this club. I can see why people have backed Ashley over him though, I really can. Don't we already have threads about how Ashley has shafted the club? Can we not just discuss the match in this one? Slow burn theory as they say. Ok then let's see...I thought Geremi today was Ashley the absolute FAT BASTARD!! Is that better?

I also think they should be forced to re-name their ground. The Stadium of Light rightfully belongs to Benfica, in no way can it be ripped and then used to describe one of the dingiest shitholes in England.

He could have walked earlier if he wasn't getting backed, he waited until it was too late to change anything. well that answers your question doesnt it? he stayed while there was a chance to change things and left once there was no longer a chance. exactly the same as alan curbishley. Doesn't wash, what are these two 13 year olds still wet behind the ears? They will have taken it up with the appropriate people as soon as they sensed something wrong, most likely early summer. If nothing changes going into the last month do they still think they've got a chance at 'persuading' them to change anything? Get real. Did Keegan not chase it up when he had to travel all the way to the other end of the country. Pathetic. Did Ashley not say in the official club magazine Keegan had final say? Aye I'm sure he did. Oh well, I may as well join the rest of you folk and back Ashley over a man who has done everything for this club. I can see why people have backed Ashley over him though, I really can. Don't we already have threads about how Ashley has shafted the club? Can we not just discuss the match in this one?

Yeah, the squad is definitely the reason why we lost this game. Would love to compare the squads. If we're full strength today we get at least a draw. At least. I'd say atleast six of our starters today were better than the players in the opposite position, on paper. Nowt wrong with our squad. I went to West Ham in April with Rich, Dave and 2J last year and we all agreed - 4-3-3, replace Viduka, replace Taylor, replace Butt and replace Geremi and we've got a good side. October, back to 4-4-2 and three of them are getting a game - not just as subs but as first choice - not only that but Ameobi and Duff are playing! Fucking disgusting. Taylor - bought a better player in Bassong Butt - bought a better player in Guthrie Geremi - bought a better player in Jonas Viduka - potentially bought a better player in Xisco, we don't know yet It's a shame Keegan's not still here, init? (not that the 4-3-3 could have been achievable today anyway, not to the same extent anyway, because of injuries - but that's probably the system's fault aswell) Why was Taylor playing then? Why was Butt playing if Guthrie was enough in central midfield? If Jonas replaces Geremi, why is Duff playing? If Xisco is the new Viduka, why is Shola playing? Open your eyes man. You're saying the squad is the problem, the reason why we lost today. I'm disagreeing with you. Are we in agreement that those are the better players and should have been playing? The manager was at fault today for not picking em. Ah fuck this. I'm too depressed to even go on discussing it. I feel sick but i'm not panicking. If we get turned over on Tuesday then i'll think the wheels are coming off (or were never on, whatever). And who's the manager? Not the man who walked over this lot in April. But the squad's stronger and that's more important than the manager. I was assured of it by little Dennis and fat Mike. We're shite, but that's a totally different Sunderland side to the one we beat comfortably with the likes of McShane. Then why isn't it a totally different Newcastle side able to better them? Because ours is much worse, there's is much better. Makes me sick to say it. The team which beat Sunderland last season had Viduka, Barton, Owen, Enrique and Zog in it. This time round I think most of us were wishing most of the players sitting on the bench were starting in place of some of last year's proven bottlers - like Duff for a start.

The bit in bold should never be acceptable in a Tyne/Wear derby. NEVER. Of course - but it was evident on the pitch. I know. That's why I think it should be a long time before a couple of them wear the shirt again.

The bit in bold should never be acceptable in a Tyne/Wear derby. NEVER.

Aye, it's almost as if some of us are from Newcastle-upon-Tyne. What a stupid fucking thing to say. Got to agree there. I am absolutely livid that we went down so meekly to a team as shit as Sunderland. We made them look world class in that second half. Fortunately they were so bad they kept missing chance after chance despite the fact we gave them so much of the ball.

It's clear with Barton coming back into the team, either Butt or Guthrie will have to step down. Guthrie isn't an attacking midfielder so now is the right time for him to lay claim to the holding role. Butt is giving goals away match after match.

Taylor gets picked because he's the big hardman stopper in our side. In theory at least. In reality he seems to drop back and lets Colo go up against the big guys far too often.

Couldn't agree more Dave. The difference Barton and Jonas made was like night and day. A few players have lost the right to a Newcastle shirt today.