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What about Man Utd selling Ronaldo? We're not on the same level as those clubs financially. You can take a step backwards but take two steps forward by spending the money well. It's impossible to jump from newly promoted club to challenging for Europe unless you spend money, which we don't seem so willing to do. Sometimes a player can be replaced if a team offers 'too much' money for him. I don't think Carroll is irreplaceable. Yes, in terms of the way he plays then I don't think we could get a replacement, per se, but we don't have the play the way we do. It's quite possible to change the way we play by buying new players who'd fit in better in the new system. Man Utd sold a player that said he wanted to leave. Also they had a replacement ready in Nani to take his place. Stupid comparison. Nani's not in the same league as Ronaldo, mate. I take your point about the player wanting to leave. They changed their formation after Ronaldo left. They changed their style after their best player left, and they've gradually reinvested the money from that sale (they obv still have a lot left to spend) to buy new and younger players who'll all help them consistently challenge. That's the scenario that could happen if we sell Carroll. Of course we could f*** it up by spending it on dross, but we could equally spend the money on 4 Ben Arfas and be rolling into the CL in two years. And where are Man Utd, top of the league currently and unbeaten. Totally different situations and no comparison with this at all. The fact that Man Utd are top of the league and unbeaten was part of my point, mate. They sold their best player when they had no need to (how could you improve on winning everything?) and they're still the best team in the country. We could actually improve by spending the money well, but I completely understand everyone's lack of enthusiasm in considering his sale. I honestly do. I just think there's a chance to improve by spending the money well because I don't see this kind of money coming from another source. If we spend the money well then yeah your right, but there's no time in this window to spend anything. Keep him until the summer then sell when we've got time if that's the case Yeah, I've made that point as well. It's insane to sell now, but it wouldn't hurt to seriously consider it in the summer.

Point taken, although Terry's only won things because Abramovich has spent a fuckload of money. We're not likely to win things with Carroll because we don't have money to spend. I'm just looking at Arsenal and what they achieved with foreigners, which is why I said 'being local is irrelevant'. I'm also looking at Man Utd now and see the lack of locals in their team, and then you look at Chelsea and Spurs and realise that they don't really have any locals in their teams either. It's a matter of pride to have locals in the team, of course, but I'd rather we improved (which we really have a lot of room to do) and won things, man.

What about Man Utd selling Ronaldo? We're not on the same level as those clubs financially. You can take a step backwards but take two steps forward by spending the money well. It's impossible to jump from newly promoted club to challenging for Europe unless you spend money, which we don't seem so willing to do. Sometimes a player can be replaced if a team offers 'too much' money for him. I don't think Carroll is irreplaceable. Yes, in terms of the way he plays then I don't think we could get a replacement, per se, but we don't have the play the way we do. It's quite possible to change the way we play by buying new players who'd fit in better in the new system. Man Utd sold a player that said he wanted to leave. Also they had a replacement ready in Nani to take his place. Stupid comparison. Nani's not in the same league as Ronaldo, mate. I take your point about the player wanting to leave. They changed their formation after Ronaldo left. They changed their style after their best player left, and they've gradually reinvested the money from that sale (they obv still have a lot left to spend) to buy new and younger players who'll all help them consistently challenge. That's the scenario that could happen if we sell Carroll. Of course we could fuck it up by spending it on dross, but we could equally spend the money on 4 Ben Arfas and be rolling into the CL in two years. And where are Man Utd, top of the league currently and unbeaten. Totally different situations and no comparison with this at all. The fact that Man Utd are top of the league and unbeaten was part of my point, mate. They sold their best player when they had no need to (how could you improve on winning everything?) and they're still the best team in the country. We could actually improve by spending the money well, but I completely understand everyone's lack of enthusiasm in considering his sale. I honestly do. I just think there's a chance to improve by spending the money well because I don't see this kind of money coming from another source.

So I'm getting a lot of shit for trying to justify selling Carroll I suppose it's not undeserved because he's a local player and he's done well, but I'm just assuming that we don't have much money to spend otherwise. Maybe that's just too cynical, but I don't think it's realistic to expect Ashley to spend the money necessary to help us really challenge. Sometimes 4 good players can be better than one great player, especially for a team that can readily improve at quite a few positions. We're not Barca who are set at every position, man. And yeah, it's a risk to actually sell and try to replace because there's so much uncertainty with new players, but maybe it's a gamble worth taking if we're looking to challenge. I'm not concerned about the bank balance in and of itself, but I'm concerned with the future of the team and how we can improve it. The bank balance is obviously relevant to this issue.

What about Man Utd selling Ronaldo? We're not on the same level as those clubs financially. You can take a step backwards but take two steps forward by spending the money well. It's impossible to jump from newly promoted club to challenging for Europe unless you spend money, which we don't seem so willing to do. Sometimes a player can be replaced if a team offers 'too much' money for him. I don't think Carroll is irreplaceable. Yes, in terms of the way he plays then I don't think we could get a replacement, per se, but we don't have the play the way we do. It's quite possible to change the way we play by buying new players who'd fit in better in the new system. Man Utd sold a player that said he wanted to leave. Also they had a replacement ready in Nani to take his place. Stupid comparison. Nani's not in the same league as Ronaldo, mate. I take your point about the player wanting to leave. They changed their formation after Ronaldo left. They changed their style after their best player left, and they've gradually reinvested the money from that sale (they obv still have a lot left to spend) to buy new and younger players who'll all help them consistently challenge. That's the scenario that could happen if we sell Carroll. Of course we could fuck it up by spending it on dross, but we could equally spend the money on 4 Ben Arfas and be rolling into the CL in two years.

The Arsenal team barely has an Englishman, let alone a Londoner, and most of them want to be there. Yeah, they're a top 4 club so of course players want to be playing for them, but if we buy decent players and move up the league, we'll be in the same position. Look at Spurs as an example of spending good money by selling a player who was overpriced (Berbatov).

Enrique, Coloccini, Tiote and Ben Arfa all want to be here as well, and none of them are local.

What about Man Utd selling Ronaldo? We're not on the same level as those clubs financially. You can take a step backwards but take two steps forward by spending the money well. It's impossible to jump from newly promoted club to challenging for Europe unless you spend money, which we don't seem so willing to do. Sometimes a player can be replaced if a team offers 'too much' money for him. I don't think Carroll is irreplaceable. Yes, in terms of the way he plays then I don't think we could get a replacement, per se, but we don't have the play the way we do. It's quite possible to change the way we play by buying new players who'd fit in better in the new system.

The Mackem is talkin some sense, tbh. £30m is an insane amount of money, man. I'd still rather we didn't sell. Yes £30+ mil is a staggering amount, but what we have in Andy Carroll is absolutely priceless. A local kid with the world at his feet, who doesn't want to play for anyone else. This happens maybe once in a generation, if you're lucky. The local kid stuff is irrelevant. I'd rather we didn't sell if we were assured of funds being made available in the summer, but that's obviously not the case. Over £35m and come back to talk in the summer. We start talking to 3-4 players that would completely change the face of the team (right winger, box-to-box CM, pacy striker, another striker) now and conclude business in the summer. There is still a lot of good players to be had at the £8-10m range.

Selling isn't an unambitious thing to do. Selling now would be stupid because we wouldn't be able to get a good replacement in time, but selling in the summer wouldn't be unambitious.

Come back and talk in the summer if any club is prepared to bid over £35m because that is seriously a rebuild-your-team money. We could get a decent RM, CM and a couple of strikers for that kind of money. No one player in that group would obviously be worth more than £8-10m, but I think we'd be able to challenge for the top 6 if that kind of money is spent wisely (yes it's a big if). I don't know. This kind of money is insane for someone who hasn't shown the ability to succeed with another style of football. I suppose the only reason teams are bidding so much is because he means so much to us because in pure footballing terms there's no way he comes close to David Villa as a striker.

I agree with Jon, £23m is not enough. But Liverpool have also got Suarez for quite a discount.

I think Carroll is quick, has a great instinct for scoring (does miss some he should score but then he is young and most do), can drift wide, put in excellent crossses, can shoot from distance, bullies the fuck out of defenders and is absolutely unstoppable in the air when he wants to be. He might not have the history behind him as he only really stepped onto the scene a year ago but his potential is outstanding and I can see why people think he is worth the punt more than someone who has done exceptionally well in a far inferior league (defensively) and done good at international level. I don't disagree with that. If he can improve his control then he'd be the best striker in the league. Carroll's excellent for us now. He's probably the best striker in the world for our squad because we exploit his strengths so well, but if we're to step up, Carroll has to improve his game on the ground because to be a good team, we have to be able to dominate possession. As it is, Suarez has more to his game, in my opinion.

better for NUFC at this current time with our current squad? can't agree with that like but each to their own I never said that. I just think Suarez is a better player, overall.

Suarez's physical attributes, combined with his pedigree, technical ability and obvious goalscoring instinct, makes him a better player than Carroll, in my opinion. Edit: It's his combination of strength, pace and technical ability - physical attributes - that impresses me the most. That's what I should have said. Apologies. Second edit: I would love more than nothing to be wrong and for Suarez to end up like Kuyt, but it's far more likely he ends up impacting English football in the way than van Nistelrooy did.

He is more physically impressive than Carroll? Andy Carroll? That's not what I said.

The reason I rate Suarez is because he has the physical attributes to succeed. He's not just the type of striker who's in the right place at the right time, like Inzaghi who wouldn't have been as successful in the Premiership. He's got strength, pace, two good feet and he can head the ball. He's not Kuyt who's too slow for the Premiership. He's not Kezman who wasn't pacy nor strong, and he's not Alves who only had one good season. Suarez has scored most of his goals in a weak league, sure, but he's also scored in Europe and he's also scored for Uruguay. The physical attributes is the most impressive thing about him, and it's why I'd take him over Carroll this instant. Morientes was past it when he joined Liverpool and Kezman wasn't up to it physically. I don't think Crespo was a failure in English football (better than 2 in 1 in the league) and Mourinho never gave him a chance.

Spurs have a quality team. They're nearly as good as we were in the year we made our CL run. The defence is roughly on a par, their midfield is slightly better (Bale, Modric, VdV and Lennon are obviously awesome players but as a team our midfield could compete with most in the world) but our strikers just blow theirs off the park. You take away one of their midfielders and their team would still be up there challenging for fourth.

Because he's played for us for four years and has had two, maybe three good games there? I'm not disputing the fact that he's been shite in the center of the park, but with more movement in the team coming from Jonas, HBA and maybe Ireland, I feel the he wouldn't be under as much pressure as he usually was when we had a pretty static team. We still do, imo, but when HBA returns and if Ireland rediscovers his form, our team would have a lot more guile and pace, and that would inevitably benefit someone like Barton who is a good passer of the ball.

There is no debate. In his time at NUFC Barton has shown no sign whatsoever that he can play CM, however on many occasions he has shown to be a very good player on the RW. In his time at NUFC Jonas has shown he can't cross a football. Simples. He was practically playing CM against Spurs and ran the show whenever we had the ball.

I agree with baba re: Barton in the center. I don't see why we can't revert to a 4-4-2 with Barton in the center with Tiote, and HBA and Jonas on the wings, rotating with each other. Against Spurs Barton drifted in so much that he was practically playing as a CM already, and he was very good in that match. If we revert to a 4-4-2, we'll have Carroll up front with Nolan playing off him, or Ireland if he can regain his form. Or we buy a Bellamy-type striker and drop Nolan.

There is no reason to drop Jonas, who's one of the few players in our squad capable of keeping the ball under pressure. He's one of the best outlets we have, someone who can control the ball and run at teams with pace. He lacks end product, but the effect that he has on a team lacking in pace can't be understated. I think a lot of the space that our CMs have is due in part to the fact that Jonas (and Routledge previously) forced teams to sit slightly deeper than they would have because of the pace that Jonas (and Routledge) possess.

says who? If you think Carroll is better than Suarez, you're daft.

Suarez is better than Carroll, ergo Carroll's price should be lower than £23m. The only reason we'll get close to £40m for him is because he's English. Torres will be going for that amount, man! It's an insane price for someone like Carroll.

Messi's body language just seems a bit off to me. He looks like he's trying too hard to score; very Cristiano-like.