Unbelievable

It doesn't even bear thinking about what he'll come out with in the Sunlun pre game presser if we lose tomorrow. God, I hope we don't get to witness it.

I do. They actually have a track record for turning up in the second half of the season.

Borini must be thick as fuck to do that just after receiving a yellow

I've never quite understood the 6 yard box rule relating to keeper protection, but do Sunlun have a case for that to be a foul on Pantillimon?

McClaren won FC Twente their first and only Eredivisie title yet my brother in law who is a massive fan couldn't muster more then a "Meh" when I said he was going to manage us. Tells you everything you need to know about his reputation with their fans. The brand of football was absolutely horrific from what he's told me, especially in his second stint. He's done extremely well to rebuild his reputation after the England disaster as some sort of progressive mastermind.

I said we would possibly end up hating him more than Pardew if he got 4 years in the job. Seems like he's well on course after just 3 months in. Those Krul is worth 20 points, big party at 40 in mid-April and extended pre-season comments are absolutely catastrophically Pardew-esque. It's genuinely amazing how this club is being destroyed from the inside out.

The Chron article on the previous page.

Bring it on baby! Love major tournament summers me, and I can't see us being as bad as we were last time around.

Oh fuck this shit

Liverpool is currently 10th on 12 points. Considering our tougher than average start of the season I would say 9 points from those 8 games would have been about on target.

That applies to the top teams too though Ian. If one of them has a upcoming fixture list of four teams aiming for midtable like we supposedly are I'd think they would happily take 8-9 points from those 12..

It's true that we've had a tough start to the season and I did expect us to be near the bottom, but if our aim is top 8-10 we should have had more points from those opening fixtures than the currrent 3, or even the 5 you mention. Realistically I would have said 3 points minimum from Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal and City, 3 from Watford and another 3 minimum from Southampton, Swansea and West Ham. So we're about -6 from where you would expect us to be. No reason for outright panic, but the pressure is definitely on and if we don't pick up sharpish we could be down and out before Christmas.

This club

"We have one here and we are sticking to it, and we know if we do the process right and we go through painful times, which we have to, when it gets right, it will be very good." We have to go through painful times do we now?

Good read that. Depressing like. Although I agree with the sentiment and the "bright lights" of London argument (see Remy) I also believe that another London factor has caused our demise, Ashley. Neville touched on it briefly by talking about the disconnect between owner, manager and fans, but I believe with an ambitious Owner in the mould of Hall when he first took over would see us still fighting near the top. The main trouble is the money and never has it been truer than today that you speculate to accumulate and the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. There's so much money sloshing round at the top that makes it nay on impossible to challenge without finding the perfect chemistry between manager and players at a lower budget. With Ashley in charge and his two-bit football-retarded MD we have absolutely no chance of stumbling across the perfect formula. Our mighty messiah will turn us into that which "he saved us from" the next Leeds or even Hull, we should be so lucky to be as good as Wednesday. With Hall and Keegan we had vision and ambition and yes maybe some delusions of grandeur but we gave it a shot, we defied all the odds and we stood toe to toe with the best the country had to offer, that's why we could entice the players away from London. Who wants to play for "let's aim for 8th but top 10 would be awesome"? Who wants to play for the mighty McClaren? London didn't take it away from us Ashley did. Take a bow sir

Will be at work until at least 19:15pm

Incredible that Lowes gets stuck into McClaren after 6 games having refused to criticise Pardew over the last three seasons. Also interesting to hear that McClaren seems to speak more confidently the more he gets pressured, even though he still waffles a lot and seems lost as to what the solutions might be. The way he always finishes his sentences on a high note drives me mad though. Somewhere down the line he must have had someone advising him on how to deal with the media and this must have been advised, because it sounds unnatural as fuck

The symbolism of that pic with Jesus Hatem welcoming us with open arms to join his party on an evening where this club once more went out to lower league opposition in a cup game without a whisper

If he thinks the criticism was bad before wait until he picks up tomorrow's papers. The season and his reign has only just started but we're already in a tailspin.

This has me worried: "There was a nervous feeling around the ground.”

A fighter or a victor. Sounds good either way Lee Cheers for the link Dave

Ashley has transformed us into Sunderland Mk II

*gulp* Is the post match interview online somewhere?