Unbelievable

Dave, you know as well as I do that Cisse has only been asked to play out on the wing in the last couple of matches, coincidentally in the period where Pardew has tried to change the two men up top tactics and also a period in which our first choice right winger (Ben Arfa) has been out injured. To claim he hasn't been scoring goals this season because he has been asked to play out wide for a few matches is gross oversimplification I wouldn't expect from a good poster like you. He's been denied playing in his position (in the middle of a 3) all season though. Well, that would be because if what you are saying is true, "his position" does not exist in Pardew's apparently preferred formation, which begs the question: can he work as part of a front two or in other formations where he isn't the lone striker with two wide forwards, or is he another Darren Bent who needs the team/formation built around him? I would have hoped he was a bit more versatile than that, and based on what I've seen so far in terms of interplay and movement (mainly last season) I think he is to be honest. Apparently it is hard to accept for some people that a good striker can sometimes just have a bad spell of form in front of goal.

Dave, you know as well as I do that Cisse has only been asked to play out on the wing in the last couple of matches, coincidentally in the period where Pardew has tried to change the two men up top tactics and also a period in which our first choice right winger (Ben Arfa) has been out injured. To claim he hasn't been scoring goals this season because he has been asked to play out wide for a few matches is gross oversimplification I wouldn't expect from a good poster like you. For what it's worth I fully agree with Padrew being too negative tactically, and needing to change things around, which he appears to be doing. I don't think just because I feel he can and should do better anything he says is worthy of ridicule, regardless of whether it is valid or not.

I'm going off on a tangent by pointing out the inconsistency in two things you have written within half an hour of each other, yet you have the cheek to pull people up on defending our last transfer window (as you called it) a few months ago, whilst not singularly criticising Pardew for our current rut now?

Yep, aside from his creativity and passing ability, his all-around workrate is very important to the team. You've got to assume that if just running about was causing him pain every week then it's a reasonable excuse for his below-par performances. You write this within half an hour of taking the p*ss out of Pardew for suggesting Cisse's lack of goals may be related to Ben Arfa and Cabaye missing due to injury. Well done for consistency. Ben Arfa out + 442 not working + Ba the only striker scoring= Cisse on the wing or out of the first team. Seems so logical now you mention it. FYP

He wasn't getting stick for that. Might be an idea to actually read the posts....This place indeed Then what the flying fuck was this all about: That was down to Laudrup though, his knowledge of players is far better than Pardew's i would think in Spain. Our manager picked Obertan.....brilliant

Yep, aside from his creativity and passing ability, his all-around workrate is very important to the team. You've got to assume that if just running about was causing him pain every week then it's a reasonable excuse for his below-par performances. You write this within half an hour of taking the piss out of Pardew for suggesting Cisse's lack of goals may be related to Ben Arfa and Cabaye missing due to injury. Well done for consistency.

Pardew getting stick because Swansea have managed to pick up a player from abroad who has done well? This place at the moment

We managed to find one at about 4:30 on Saturday, the sly b****** must have been in hiding. As if Cisse would have 100% scored that "chance". Marv's little wait and pass was important like, but it was hardly put on a plate for Shola..

In what world is going from 5th to a current 14th place classed as stability? Exactly the kind of short-termist defeatism I'm on about. Didn't you call me delusional a couple of days ago for refusing to say we were realistically in a relegation battle?

Michu for Ba would be ideal. He could play behind Cisse in an intelligent manner. Messi for Ba would be ideal and equally as realistic. Equally? Yes, as in 0% chance of it happening. It's highly unlikely but 0 per cent isn't true. They're worth vaguely similar amounts of money for a start. Didn't you used to be an easy going Dutchman btw, what's going on with you? Semantics, both won't happen. As for your second comment, I'm just unhappy about this happy go lucky place going to waste due to all the negativity. We finished fifth last season, are in Europe, have a good core of players and finally some stability. We're in a bit of a rut at the moment, but it appears to me many regular posters on here are desperate for things to fall apart so they can say I told you so.

Michu for Ba would be ideal. He could play behind Cisse in an intelligent manner. Messi for Ba would be ideal and equally as realistic. Equally? Yes, as in 0% chance of it happening.

Michu for Ba would be ideal. He could play behind Cisse in an intelligent manner. Messi for Ba would be ideal and equally as realistic.

Trying to come up with reasons why his form has dipped and then only ending up with reasons outside of his control is what I call making excuses. Pretty sure that's what making excuses means too, but than again English is nog my mother tongue so I may be wrong.. As for the reason why Cisse has been so disappointing, I don't know and I din't want to theorise. What I do know though, and that's how this argument started, is that moving Ba who is scoring away from goal to accomodate a stuttering Cisse in the centre seems like utter madness to me. As mad as moving Cisse away from the centre to accommodate a sulking, stuttering Ba? Beggars f***ing belief this like. I knew this was coming. I for one am perfectly happy for our best players to request being played in their preferred position, as long as they deliver when they are. Ba has delivered whenever he has played in the centre for us, Cisse hasn't so far this season, so with a change from two to one central striker it was obvious he was the one going wide for a while or out of the first team altogether (which I would have preferred btw). I fully expect Cisse to get frustrated for being played out wide, just as Ba did. Four games in, and the first signs were there last Saturday. He will have to walk the walk too though, like Ba did when he requested to play centrally. As I said, in a 433 there is only one place for a real central striker, which they both are. May the best one win. At the moment that is Ba. I really hope Cisse refinds his form of last year and reclaims his place. That's primarily up to him though; if he keeps missing chances at this rate it may be a while yet. If he starts banging them in I am sure nobody will be more delighted than Pardew himself. The manager needs to do what's best for the team based on the evidence available. He's not doing it, and he wouldn't be sacrificing anything by trying something which worked so well last season. If Cisse was playing anywhere near as well as last season we wouldn't even be having this debate. As it is, displacing the forward who is doing the business to accomodate the one who isn't is indeed a huge sacrifice considering where we would be right now if Ba's form was like Cisse's this season. None of that takes into account the fact that Cisse hasn't once been sent out as the middle striker of a 3 this season, and that may have something to do with his drop in form. I get it though, we're playing badly and getting s*** results but you two are concerned about changing anything Erm, Everton away first half, which was our worst performance of the season by a mile coincidentally.. I haven't said we shouldn't change anything. In fact, for the last 4 matches we have. Doesn't seem to have appeased you much..

Trying to come up with reasons why his form has dipped and then only ending up with reasons outside of his control is what I call making excuses. Pretty sure that's what making excuses means too, but than again English is nog my mother tongue so I may be wrong.. As for the reason why Cisse has been so disappointing, I don't know and I din't want to theorise. What I do know though, and that's how this argument started, is that moving Ba who is scoring away from goal to accomodate a stuttering Cisse in the centre seems like utter madness to me. As mad as moving Cisse away from the centre to accommodate a sulking, stuttering Ba? Beggars f***ing belief this like. I knew this was coming. I for one am perfectly happy for our best players to request being played in their preferred position, as long as they deliver when they are. Ba has delivered whenever he has played in the centre for us, Cisse hasn't so far this season, so with a change from two to one central striker it was obvious he was the one going wide for a while or out of the first team altogether (which I would have preferred btw). I fully expect Cisse to get frustrated for being played out wide, just as Ba did. Four games in, and the first signs were there last Saturday. He will have to walk the walk too though, like Ba did when he requested to play centrally. As I said, in a 433 there is only one place for a real central striker, which they both are. May the best one win. At the moment that is Ba. I really hope Cisse refinds his form of last year and reclaims his place. That's primarily up to him though; if he keeps missing chances at this rate it may be a while yet. If he starts banging them in I am sure nobody will be more delighted than Pardew himself. The manager needs to do what's best for the team based on the evidence available. He's not doing it, and he wouldn't be sacrificing anything by trying something which worked so well last season. If Cisse was playing anywhere near as well as last season we wouldn't even be having this debate. As it is, displacing the forward who is doing the business to accomodate the one who isn't is indeed a huge sacrifice considering where we would be right now if Ba's form was like Cisse's this season. We did it at the start of this season for the sake of a sulking striker. Why can't we do it now for the sake of an under performing team getting s*** results? Except we didn't. We reverted to the tactic we employed for 80% of our matches last season to great effect and accommodated both Ba and Cisse in central forward positions in an attempt to combine our defensive solidity of last season with playing two top class strikers capable of scoring 50 goals between them in theory. Whilst it's clearly not worked out as we hoped it would, I find it extremely simplistic to discredit this concept with the benefit of hindsight considering the fact we have also looked extremely vulnerable at times with the 433 formation that's now considered to be some sort of silver bullet by some on here.

How would playing Ba wide left and Cisse in the centre help having a stable back 5 and cut out individual errors from the likes of Colo and Tiote?

Trying to come up with reasons why his form has dipped and then only ending up with reasons outside of his control is what I call making excuses. Pretty sure that's what making excuses means too, but than again English is nog my mother tongue so I may be wrong.. As for the reason why Cisse has been so disappointing, I don't know and I din't want to theorise. What I do know though, and that's how this argument started, is that moving Ba who is scoring away from goal to accomodate a stuttering Cisse in the centre seems like utter madness to me. As mad as moving Cisse away from the centre to accommodate a sulking, stuttering Ba? Beggars f***ing belief this like. I knew this was coming. I for one am perfectly happy for our best players to request being played in their preferred position, as long as they deliver when they are. Ba has delivered whenever he has played in the centre for us, Cisse hasn't so far this season, so with a change from two to one central striker it was obvious he was the one going wide for a while or out of the first team altogether (which I would have preferred btw). I fully expect Cisse to get frustrated for being played out wide, just as Ba did. Four games in, and the first signs were there last Saturday. He will have to walk the walk too though, like Ba did when he requested to play centrally. As I said, in a 433 there is only one place for a real central striker, which they both are. May the best one win. At the moment that is Ba. I really hope Cisse refinds his form of last year and reclaims his place. That's primarily up to him though; if he keeps missing chances at this rate it may be a while yet. If he starts banging them in I am sure nobody will be more delighted than Pardew himself. The manager needs to do what's best for the team based on the evidence available. He's not doing it, and he wouldn't be sacrificing anything by trying something which worked so well last season. If Cisse was playing anywhere near as well as last season we wouldn't even be having this debate. As it is, displacing the forward who is doing the business to accomodate the one who isn't is indeed a huge sacrifice considering where we would be right now if Ba's form was like Cisse's this season.

Trying to come up with reasons why his form has dipped and then only ending up with reasons outside of his control is what I call making excuses. Pretty sure that's what making excuses means too, but than again English is nog my mother tongue so I may be wrong.. As for the reason why Cisse has been so disappointing, I don't know and I din't want to theorise. What I do know though, and that's how this argument started, is that moving Ba who is scoring away from goal to accomodate a stuttering Cisse in the centre seems like utter madness to me. As mad as moving Cisse away from the centre to accommodate a sulking, stuttering Ba? Beggars f***ing belief this like. I knew this was coming. I for one am perfectly happy for our best players to request being played in their preferred position, as long as they deliver when they are. Ba has delivered whenever he has played in the centre for us, Cisse hasn't so far this season, so with a change from two to one central striker it was obvious he was the one going wide for a while or out of the first team altogether (which I would have preferred btw). I fully expect Cisse to get frustrated for being played out wide, just as Ba did. Four games in, and the first signs were there last Saturday. He will have to walk the walk too though, like Ba did when he requested to play centrally. As I said, in a 433 there is only one place for a real central striker, which they both are. May the best one win. At the moment that is Ba. I really hope Cisse refinds his form of last year and reclaims his place. That's primarily up to him though; if he keeps missing chances at this rate it may be a while yet. If he starts banging them in I am sure nobody will be more delighted than Pardew himself.

The main striker role in a 442. As far as excuses being made for his failings this season, that has got to be the funniest yet.. I think there's something to be said for the 442 system and the style of football we play in it suiting Ba far more than it does Cisse. Agreed on that count. It just happens to be Pardew's preferred style of play.

Trying to come up with reasons why his form has dipped and then only ending up with reasons outside of his control is what I call making excuses. Pretty sure that's what making excuses means too, but than again English is nog my mother tongue so I may be wrong.. As for the reason why Cisse has been so disappointing, I don't know and I din't want to theorise. What I do know though, and that's how this argument started, is that moving Ba who is scoring away from goal to accomodate a stuttering Cisse in the centre seems like utter madness to me.

The main striker role in a 442. As far as excuses being made for his failings this season, that has got to be the funniest yet..

Not sure why he won't answer this question. Should we sacrifice results whilst he regains his form. What is this s***? It's unbelievable. Funny, the person that was aimed at understood what I meant. Maybe that statement in the context of the rest of the post had a slightly different meaning..? Nothing like taking a few words out of context to make yourself look smart. Keep it up lads..

People complain about Pardew being a 442 merchant and then come out with this sort of shit when it suits them..

Knew people would claim that horrible experiment wasn't what they claim they want, but to be fair equally are we not playing a traditional 442 with 2 banks of four and 2 strikers up top much these last couple of weeks (i.e. in our run of losses). The reality is our problems run much deeper than simply sacrificing a midfield player for a winger. Yep, the manager is s*** That's one way of looking at it. Another would be to say we're not bringing in the players that he wants/needs in order for him to play his preferred style of play (regardless of what we think about the aesthetics of that style of play). Why else bring in a striker who can only excel in a 433, and a defensive midfield player who thrives on possession based linkup play between the defensive players and the midfield/forward players, when he seemnigly wants to play a traditional English game with two banks of four and a little man/big man combo up front? To be honest, if the long term tactical aim from Pardew is what you've suggested (and many suspect) then I really do want him gone. We will never consistently achieve anything tangible playing like that even with the players needed to make it work. The glass ceiling for that is what O'Neill achieved with Villa. We beat that last season 6 months ago..

Pardew cannot win. Let me ask you: do you work? If so, is everything in your job exactly how you want it? If not, why haven't you walked yet?

Everton first half for example, where we were completely taken apart. Yeah I suppose so, had totally forgotten our initial approach that night to be honest. The personnel was canny different to what was successful last season mind and the Marveaux ploy to stop Baines was abysmal. Harper; Perch, Williamson, Taylor, Santon; Anita, Jonas; Marveaux, Cabaye, Ben Arfa; Cisse was the team. Almost half of our usual starters missing, Ben Arfa playing on the other side and it was only really the right side where we suffered IIRC. Think we've been equally as s**** or worse playing in different ways. You should have seen the prematch thread from the moment the team news was out that day. Then that abysmal, abysmal first half, reverting to 442 at half time (with Ba coming on) and ultimately looking decent value for a draw based on our second half performance. Edit: coincidentally, in that reply is one of the real reasons why we had a stop/start first half of the season. Just look at that back 5 FFS. In regards to the edit, I thought the same but then went and looked at our line-ups for the "good" 4-3-3 matches from last season (the 6 games from Norwich-Stoke) and realised the team was constantly unsettled then too (and missing "big" players a lot of the time). The defence for the 2-0 Liverpool win was Simpson, Williamson, Perch and Gutierrez For the first 15 or so matches of last season though, where we laid the foundations for our excellent season, we had a settled back five.