Unbelievable

We never learn do we..?

If we were to line up in a 442 due to tactical considerations (like we did vs Man U at home for example), would you prefer Ba and Cisse to Carroll and Cisse or even Carroll and Ba? I don't think I would, and even then it's assuming Ba and Cisse will be fit and available to play for every single match this upcoming season unless we get in another striker of similar quality (why else sell Best?). Also, he's proved to be able to be a 1 in 2 striker for us over a full calender year (albeit partly in the Championship) and a half season in the Premiership. Over the course of their careers and even time with us in Ba's case, is that so much worse than Ba and Cisse's records? And that's before we even mention what else Carroll brought to the table in his time here, such as an actual threat from set pieces (Williamson flick on at the edge of the box anyone?) and the best defensive header for corners and opposition set pieces I've ever seen in my time supporting NUFC.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. Please allow me to return the favour as you asked: What we are seemingly trying to do is bring Carroll back on a season long loan, with an option to buy at our discretion if reports are to be believed. It's hardly shelling out a huge fee in that context; it could be construed as the exact opposite: we get a quality striker for a nominal loan fee and if he turns out to be a success we have an option to bring him in on a pre-agreed fee just when the new TV money kicks in, allowing us to use this year's budget in other positions that need strengthening. As to where he fits in the side? I think he would be one of our 3 main strikers who would be played in a 442 or 433 depending on the opposition or the situation in a game. As such he would get plenty of game time, but wouldn't necessarily be an automatic starter. Again, we're talking about a loan fee in the first instance. I'm perfectly comfortable with us seeing how it pans out and paying £12-13m if he manager to recapture his previous form with us and proves a good fit in the squad. I don't see why anybody wouldn't, as we can't really lose. If he doesn't hit those heights or kicks up a fuss we send him packing. Secondly, as explained above, he would hardly be a back up option from the bench in my opinion, especially considering we're looking at potentially 55+ matches and he brings something very different to the table that may come in handy in specific situations where our plan A doesn't work (either based on Pardew's pre-match analysis or how it pans out on the pitch). I'm not overly concerned about this to be honest. Firstly because he's a much better footballer than some on here give him credit for, secondly because this team set up and how it contrasts with how we've played earlier in the season or even when Carroll was here is massively overplayed. I seriously can't see how Cabaye, Cisse and Ben Arfa suddenly could no longer play to the best of their ability with Carroll in the squad. Maybe you could explain to me how this would work? As for your responses to my questions: You implied it at the very least by suggesting Carroll would be a "back up option from the bench" If you don't think players such as De Jong or Carroll would improve our first team, I would like you to really answer my question rather than talk around the issue: who could we realistically go for within our budget who would be willing to come here? We've evidently gone in for Luuk de Jong who we thought we'd get for 8-10 million, but were turned down by both the selling club in terms of the fee we had in mind and the player because he was more attracted to Borussia Monchengladbach. Personally I think this underlines how brilliant and unique it was to get a player of Cisse's quality for 8 million. Maybe they don't have any better alternative options that they consider more worthwhile than trying to get Carroll back. Even though I agree there is some Ashley brinkmanship and ego involved in this offer, I can't seriously contemplate he's doing it on his own going against the advise of his chief scout and manager this time, especially considering how he was burnt before by similar actions (KK) and how brilliantly Carr and Pardew have done for him recently. All this leads me to believe we are seeing Carroll on the (relative) cheap as a better deal than any other we'd planned before the summer transfer window.

Maybe they are realistic enough to realise that 2,5 strikers for a potential 55+ matches campaign will not cut the mustard? You may have a different opinion about Carroll being the most suitable option, but don't tell me you disagree with bringing another quality striker in? Then, if not Carroll, please tell me who we could realistically go for within our budget who would be willing to come here? If you don't know, but are of the opinion that the club are in the business of scouting and finding these options and seeing as we've found Cisse for 8 million, we should easily be able to do it again, then what do you think it means that we've turned our attention to Andy Carroll?

What? Nothing special is he? Were you in hibernation during the whole of 2010? Whoosh. WTF

What? Nothing special is he? Were you in hibernation during the whole of 2010?

What?

Quelle surprise!

Because £17m is far too much for us. We'd have to qualify for the Champions League at least to be able to afford that. What happens if he scores a load but we finish 6th? We have to give him back. What if he's only a moderate success but hints at much more? The same applies. It has to be a fee we're willing and able to pay. Won't we get at least an additional 30 million in TV revenue from next season onwards, like every other Premiership club? Not that I'm advocating a 17 million fee BTW, think that would be excessive, but 12-15 would be reasonable with a season loan to prove himself preceding any possible offer at our discretion.

We didn't and he looked fine then, and he was only 20/21 and very raw, and i'm not exactly sure where this "he's only good for hoofball" stuff has come from. He's tall innit?

We "only" offered 10 million GBP in the end, didn't we? Seems like we weren't a million miles off, which is a shame, but presumably the player had his heart set on joining BMG.

I'm all for reserving final judgement until you've seen more (sometimes you can revise your opinion after years, like in the case of Perch), but there's nothing that has been said that classifies as a "wide ranging conclusion". You're making yourself look like an idiot with these comments, unless you have never expressed an opinion about anything, in which case it begs the question what you are doing on an internet forum really. You commented on at least 5 different areas of his game based on an hour in a friendly. You're still missing my point of course, but why let that stop a boring argument? This is what I said: Hardly any cast in stone conclusions that's he's the next Vierra then, is it? Oh, and didn't you start this argument?

No. Carroll is back to the player he was before his "wonder year". There's very little to suggest otherwise. Before his wonder year as you call it, he was what, 19 and getting the odd game in the cups, like Vuckic and Abeid last season? Do you seriously want to compare the striker that got on and nearly changed the FA Cup final for his team and who subsequently went to the Euros and did well enough in his time on the pitch to that stage of his development? Really? Cherry pick the odd game if you want but he's looked completely average since he left us. There's nothing to suggest he can just pick up where he left off. Is it a requirement that players we're after must have recently set the world alight? As oldtype pointed out, it seems to be a specific tactic employed by NUFC at the moment to take on players who've proven they can do it at this level before but have gone slightly astray in recent times, like Ben Ara for example. The fact he's done it before makes it more likely that he migth do it again, rather than a completely unproven youngster from a smaller league, wouldn't you agree?

I'm all for reserving final judgement until you've seen more (sometimes you can revise your opinion after years, like in the case of Perch), but there's nothing that has been said that classifies as a "wide ranging conclusion". You're making yourself look like an idiot with these comments, unless you have never expressed an opinion about anything, in which case it begs the question what you are doing on an internet forum really.

No. Carroll is back to the player he was before his "wonder year". There's very little to suggest otherwise. Before his wonder year as you call it, he was what, 19 and getting the odd game in the cups, like Vuckic and Abeid last season? Do you seriously want to compare the striker that got on and nearly changed the FA Cup final for his team and who subsequently went to the Euros and did well enough in his time on the pitch to that stage of his development? Really?

Yeah but that team was built around him, this team wont be massive difference. He will never perform to those levels again for that reason. How exactly was the team built around him? Did we bring in people specifically to play to his strengths? Did we suddenly adopt a completely different philosophy? Apart from maybe having an effective set piece routine with Barton aiming for Carroll's head (which makes sense and something we've definitely been lacking since he left), this seems like another often bandied around myth to me..?

the business people at the club would be dealing with it. nothing suspicious in that, is there?? Business people at the club are dealing with this but in other transfers Pards himself has been on the phone to the other clubs chairman? Its so obviously normal that every transfer is negotiated bewteen chairman, so I dont see why he'd be referring to that. Fairly obvious isn't it? He was probably asked for an update on the status of negotiations and said he can't comment as he's not involved, but the people at the corporate level are.

I find this a really strange assumption, considering it's happened before. If Carroll manages to recapture the form that made Spurs sniff around and Liverpool bid more than double that (at Liverpool, with us or on loan at any other club) he will be in demand and could easily fetch upwards of 20 million again at some point. He's only 23 and brings very specific attributes to the table not many other players do. Even top 6 teams sometimes could do with somebody in his mould. I'd go as far as saying that some top 6 clubs might well be considering putting an offer in now he's available at a cut down price. If Harry hadn't been sacked at Spurs they would almost certainly be on the phone to Liverpool right now.

That's how wor Mike rolls though. Always on the hunt for a bargain (in relative terms compared to what they deem the player's actual value) seemingly disregarding priority positions, as we did last January with the central defensive cover.

Which wide ranging conclusions are these? Read the forum? Yes, I didn't see anybody claiming he was definitely going to be a world beater or anything. Care to point me to some of these posts you seem to have read where people are drawing wide ranging conclusions based on 2 friendlies? Seems reasonably fast and quite strong for his age and size. I don't think he will ever be an effective threat in the air though, but he is a combative, tenacious little player who keeps a team ticking over by keeping possession (likes to play the simple ball instead of the Hollywood cross). You know who he reminds me off actually in the way he played today: Vurnon Anita! How is that a wide ranging conclusion man, just pointing out what I saw on the day.. You must have seen far more than me then, which is my point. Allright sir, what did you see?

Which wide ranging conclusions are these? Read the forum? Yes, I didn't see anybody claiming he was definitely going to be a world beater or anything. Care to point me to some of these posts you seem to have read where people are drawing wide ranging conclusions based on 2 friendlies? Seems reasonably fast and quite strong for his age and size. I don't think he will ever be an effective threat in the air though, but he is a combative, tenacious little player who keeps a team ticking over by keeping possession (likes to play the simple ball instead of the Hollywood cross). You know who he reminds me off actually in the way he played today: Vurnon Anita! How is that a wide ranging conclusion man, just pointing out what I saw on the day..

Which wide ranging conclusions are these? Read the forum? Yes, I didn't see anybody claiming he was definitely going to be a world beater or anything. Care to point me to some of these posts you seem to have read where people are drawing wide ranging conclusions based on 2 friendlies?

Early days and all so I'm not writing him off before anyone starts, but he looks a bit lightweight to me. People are saying he's more of a central midfielder, but I think he would need to seriously bulk up to make it in the Premiership in a central midfield position. Hope this little gamble pays off spectacularly of course, but from what I've seen so far he's not at Guthrie's level of a dependable squad player yet.