Parky

He's not an improvment on what we've got though, in my opinion at least. Here he'd be expected to do a lot more than he is at Man U and I think he'd be found out as the average player that he is. Would you be happy with the signing? Not at £6m but i seem to have an impression in my mind of him playing well in the latter stages of the CL. Versatile player too. Aye, capable of average performances in a number of positions. Rather we kept Dyer than got Fletcher personally. Fletcher would expect to play regularly if he came here I'd imagine, and I wouldn't be at all comfortable with that. As a squad player he'd be fine, but for £6m I'd much rather we kept our money and spent it on some defenders. I have the feeling that its getting to the stage where we will try to bring in anyone who improves the squad. He can play in the defence and across the midfield. If he is good enough for Fergie, he is good enough for me btw. Don't know, wouldn't be too keen on the likes of John O'Shea here tbh. I'll trust Allardyce's judgement on this if it's true (which I doubt) but I'll be quite disappointed I must admit. Twas the Roma game where he shone but, as I said earlier, the whole team was on fire that day so I wouldn't use that game as much of an indicator. Fletcher is like a Beckham lite without the passing.

It was Meatpacker.

He's not an improvment on what we've got though, in my opinion at least. Here he'd be expected to do a lot more than he is at Man U and I think he'd be found out as the average player that he is. Would you be happy with the signing? Not at £6m but i seem to have an impression in my mind of him playing well in the latter stages of the CL. Versatile player too. Aye, capable of average performances in a number of positions. Rather we kept Dyer than got Fletcher personally. Fletcher would expect to play regularly if he came here I'd imagine, and I wouldn't be at all comfortable with that. As a squad player he'd be fine, but for £6m I'd much rather we kept our money and spent it on some defenders. I have the feeling that its getting to the stage where we will try to bring in anyone who improves the squad. He can play in the defence and across the midfield. If he is good enough for Fergie, he is good enough for me btw. He's crap it's one of those Fergie idiosyncracies like that other fella who keeps coming on as sub..

It's bollocks.

It's Smith we're talking about. You say tomato... I say tomaytoe..

It's Smith we're talking about.

I couldn't be arsed discussing speculative figures, what's the point? You haven't worked it out yourself, you've just thrown up some random figures. You seem confident over what Ashley's business plans are, yet you still haven't come out with them other than vague suggestions he'll invest some money - we all know that. Of course a club which performs well on the pitch is more marketable than one which doesn't. I didn't fail to realise that, it would have been stating the bleeding obvious. I have no idea about Ashley's plans and you certainly don't either. He's invested a lot but he could make that back the day he sells up, you make it sound like his money has gone down a black hole! Indeed he has inherited around £80M debt and I do think he intends to improve the club on the pitch and off it - this is all a given! You don't need to explain it all over again, it's blindingly obvious. What is in discussion and what none of us know is to what extent Ashley is prepared to speculate to accumulate, ie release funds for players who may or may not perform. Wanting to do as well as you can is a given, how much money you're prepared to pump into a club is another matter entirely. Which one are we discussing here? Hang on, your premise was that he might not back the manager wasnt it? The likelihood of of this happening is what i am discussing. The figures, £133m buying price, £80m debt, last years profit level and total revenues for the club are all known publicly. How is using those numbers to say he would have been better off putting his money into a bank account, if he is not going to invest in the mess we are in to sort it out, me being speculative? Thats called addressing the facts and the point in discussion. By thinking about the numbers you might develop some insight into your new question, the extent to which Ashley will invest. For me, the response to that is that we will have more £££s than we previously did and will have to at least match the spending of our nearest competitors to keep them as that. You said "For all we know, Ashley might well know this and see football as an ever growing industry where he can invest modest sums to keep the club at a reasonable level high enough to make money from TV rights, merchandising etc" So, with Chelsea, Liverpool, Manu, Arse, Tottenham, Man City, West Ham, Portsmouth all investing heavily and us investing modestly, we are going to tick along and make a profit big enough to justify firstly his initial investments, then all these modest ones?? The £30m extra year from TV will be wiped out by player wage inflation in how many years? Where will the growth in demand for all these merchandise deals come? Without at least matching the investments of other clubs we wont even float in the same spot. The likelihood of Ashley inversting heavily into the club is greater than the likelihood of him not. I'd go as far as to say he was 'locked in' to investing.

Curtis Davies is £11m and Luque is unsellable. Carr is worth only 0.5m.

So why don't you enlighten us on what you think he's going to do with the business. It's pretty clear from what Chez is saying as to what the medium term plan for the business would be....ie spend and growth.

The debt for the re-development might be manageable but it's less than half of the £80 million we were supposed to have been carrying, we don't know if Ashley was even aware of the debt, I am guessing that they may have been a bit surprised having seen a comment about it from Mort although I can't remember an exact quote. Here's an example of what I call a really fearful scenario... "Manchester United chief executive David Gill is adamant the Red Devils are in good shape even though they had a plan to refinance their massive debts earlier this year. Experts acting on behalf of the Glazer family looked into the possibility of restructuring borrowings which are believed to be in the region of £660million, in order to reduce an eye-bulging annual interest payment of £62million. The move was thwarted when the cost of borrowing rose, forcing United to stick with their present financial structures. However, Gill was keen to point out that the move was instigated purely because of advantageous conditions in the debt market at that time rather than any urgent need for financial flexibility."

We didn't have the money in the first place, I'm sure an £80million debt has been mentioned which would suggest that we were just going further into debt. That debt against season ticket sales is totally manageable. I'd look at ManU purchase against club saga for a really frightening debt and Arsenal and Chelsea don't look too clever either in real terms. Debt burden at PL clubs has been growing for the last decade and Ashley would have totally been aware of our debt servicing requirements.

Where have I said all other Premiership investors are here to make money? Link? The fact is it's going to cost him big money to get Newcastle into the CL, is the potential profit worth the initial investment to get us there? I didn't say that, I said the opposite. Aye, I know you did, it was a typo. Anyway, where have I said all other Premiership investors are here for footballing reasons? Link? You said that Abramovich's spending suggests he's not in it for the money - but West Ham, Man Utd, Liverpool and Man City, among others like Pompey, are already spending big, so we can assume they're not in it for the money either. Man Utd make close to £50 million profit every year, there level of spending isn't out of the ordinary for them, Liverpool are similar but on a smaller scale, they've spent a lot but made close to £20 million in sales. Pompey, West Ham and Man City haven't spent that much this summer, less than we spent some seasons under Shepherd in fact. They've spent a lot compared to their usual spend, that comes from the new owners, plus it's not even August yet. I agree that we need defenders btw, preferably top quality ones, we need other positions filled too, I just don't think getting on the new owner's back is going to do any good at this pont when we don't know much about him. Are you worried about the lack of signings at the back? There's a good chance Taylor and Babayaro won't be fit for the start of the season which will leave us with a likely back four of Carr, Rosenhal, Ramage and Huntington. Acceptable? Another thing mate, you've been more vocal than most in the past about Shepherd not getting signings in quick enough and how not getting a proper pre-season in here could be linked to injuries from our new signings, is your opinion still the same with this new lot in charge? all fair comment. The fact is, nothing has happened yet that wouldn't have happened under the old board, and if the lack of activity so far had actually been under the old board, they would be getting crucified. We have yet to see if Ashley backs his managers more than the old board, and if he doesn't then we are really no better off, particularly when it is the old board who appointed Allardyce and the logical conclusion is that whatever success, or lack of, occurs, it would have happened whether there had been a change of owner or not. Exactly. In January we were believed to have had bids turned down for Curtis Davies and Peter Crouch, where is the money gone that would have financed those deals? Christ sure glad we didn't buy those two Curtis £11m and Crouch £15m.... Well that was who Roeder wanted and Shepherd was just backing his manager like good chairman do. Roeder was so delusional he was a borderline fantasist....

Where have I said all other Premiership investors are here to make money? Link? The fact is it's going to cost him big money to get Newcastle into the CL, is the potential profit worth the initial investment to get us there? I didn't say that, I said the opposite. Aye, I know you did, it was a typo. Anyway, where have I said all other Premiership investors are here for footballing reasons? Link? You said that Abramovich's spending suggests he's not in it for the money - but West Ham, Man Utd, Liverpool and Man City, among others like Pompey, are already spending big, so we can assume they're not in it for the money either. Man Utd make close to £50 million profit every year, there level of spending isn't out of the ordinary for them, Liverpool are similar but on a smaller scale, they've spent a lot but made close to £20 million in sales. Pompey, West Ham and Man City haven't spent that much this summer, less than we spent some seasons under Shepherd in fact. They've spent a lot compared to their usual spend, that comes from the new owners, plus it's not even August yet. I agree that we need defenders btw, preferably top quality ones, we need other positions filled too, I just don't think getting on the new owner's back is going to do any good at this pont when we don't know much about him. Are you worried about the lack of signings at the back? There's a good chance Taylor and Babayaro won't be fit for the start of the season which will leave us with a likely back four of Carr, Rosenhal, Ramage and Huntington. Acceptable? Another thing mate, you've been more vocal than most in the past about Shepherd not getting signings in quick enough and how not getting a proper pre-season in here could be linked to injuries from our new signings, is your opinion still the same with this new lot in charge? Is it fair to judge the new lot when they have only just completed the takeover. January or next season will be the real time to judge what they are like in the market. Of course you can judge them now, however if things change in the future then you change your opinion. Very harsh to judge them or even compare them to the old board now. Did the old board have to complete a transfer and review of the club whilst spending money last summer? I think people are assuming buying a club is basically "Here's £130m, now I own the club. Many thanks, bye". I would guess its a hell of a lot more complicated. Plus Allardyce is new to the club and has to get whatever he needs doing done (away from football transfers). I doubt he has spent the whole year planning on what Newcastle players he is going to buy with whatever money Ashley is going to give him. The review has only just been completed hasn't it? Hopefully he has been given a small amount to get started on getting players in and will be given a proper transfer budget now the review is complete but obviously this is all guess work. That just seems like one excuse after another. Allardyce has been here since May, he knew enough about our squad not to offer the likes of Bramble a contract extension so you would expect him to know a few decent players to bring in as replacements. Ashley took control of the club and would have known he'd have to invest in the playing side, that's just a part of football so to say he hasn't released funds because of it is just an excuse, even the manager has said they're moving too slow as far as transfers are concerned. Sam, having been a premiership manager for a number of years, would have known EXACTLY in his own mind what he thought of NUFC's players, strengths and shortcomings. If he in fact knew in advance of getting the job that he was on his way here - highly possible in view of him resigning from Bolton - even more so. He would also have had numerous players in his little black book of players he rated and admired and would like to sign for his club, whether that be at Newcastle or Bolton too. Neef do you really believe Ashley or Mort are nixing deals?

Where have I said all other Premiership investors are here to make money? Link? The fact is it's going to cost him big money to get Newcastle into the CL, is the potential profit worth the initial investment to get us there? I didn't say that, I said the opposite. Aye, I know you did, it was a typo. Anyway, where have I said all other Premiership investors are here for footballing reasons? Link? You said that Abramovich's spending suggests he's not in it for the money - but West Ham, Man Utd, Liverpool and Man City, among others like Pompey, are already spending big, so we can assume they're not in it for the money either. Man Utd make close to £50 million profit every year, there level of spending isn't out of the ordinary for them, Liverpool are similar but on a smaller scale, they've spent a lot but made close to £20 million in sales. Pompey, West Ham and Man City haven't spent that much this summer, less than we spent some seasons under Shepherd in fact. They've spent a lot compared to their usual spend, that comes from the new owners, plus it's not even August yet. I agree that we need defenders btw, preferably top quality ones, we need other positions filled too, I just don't think getting on the new owner's back is going to do any good at this pont when we don't know much about him. Are you worried about the lack of signings at the back? There's a good chance Taylor and Babayaro won't be fit for the start of the season which will leave us with a likely back four of Carr, Rosenhal, Ramage and Huntington. Acceptable? Another thing mate, you've been more vocal than most in the past about Shepherd not getting signings in quick enough and how not getting a proper pre-season in here could be linked to injuries from our new signings, is your opinion still the same with this new lot in charge? all fair comment. The fact is, nothing has happened yet that wouldn't have happened under the old board, and if the lack of activity so far had actually been under the old board, they would be getting crucified. We have yet to see if Ashley backs his managers more than the old board, and if he doesn't then we are really no better off, particularly when it is the old board who appointed Allardyce and the logical conclusion is that whatever success, or lack of, occurs, it would have happened whether there had been a change of owner or not. Exactly. In January we were believed to have had bids turned down for Curtis Davies and Peter Crouch, where is the money gone that would have financed those deals? Christ sure glad we didn't buy those two Curtis £11m and Crouch £15m....

Make him sound like Ken Bates.

The De facto post on the matter. I also agree and as Sam has hinted with his 'medicals' comment that bids have been accepted only to fall flat with the players themselves, this is nothing new especially with the current state of the club. I think it is way too early to start worrying that we're going to start the season with 'such and such' in the back four, I'm totally confident this won't happen and players will be appearing at the club over the next two weeks. People like Ashley are winners and have big ego's they're not going to sit around and let the first window go by without making a mark, I am TOTALLY sure of this. A guy with the net personal wealth of around £2billion isn't and won't fanny around trying to save the odd £10m here and there. To grow the business and the brand and to take advantage of synergies and revenue streams with reg to his other businesses Newcastle United must be successful......And we will be.

Ujfalasi has said he's leaving. Don't really rate Barzagli that highly...But time is running out.

He'll be back mid-Sept it's only a fracture.

I'd go with that. He's not a bad player not sure why people are so down on him.

He isn't that good, but under a new coaching structure worth a shout.

Sid Cowans is an all time Villa legend, of the "bleeds claret and blue" variety. He's possibly the most cultured midfielder I've ever seen play for us. Oddly enough, in our 81 Championship year, he had a pretty bad season, never really got moving, but otherwise he was a fantastic passer of the ball, one of those cultured, classy players you love to watch. He runs our academy now, and is largely responsible for our recent output. Incidentally, he's from County Durham, and thus can be added to that massive list of players on your doorstep Newcastle missed over decades. Incidentally, our championship and EC winning team were criminally overlooked at international level. How the f*** Tony Morley only got 6 caps and Dennis Mortimer got none is beyond me. in those 6 games morley done very little and mortimer was up against bryan robson (i think) Doing very little for England wasn't usually a problem. I seem to remember John Barnes getting 80 odd caps and having about 4 good games And being up against Bryan Robson is one thing, not getting a single game is another. See, most of us stopped giving a shite about England in the last few years, I stopped 25 years ago. If Morley were playing now he's the type that ManU or Chelsea would pay £25m+ for. blueyes.gif Cowans should have had more England games. Imperious is the word I'm looking for.

It happens lets move on.

No worries.

Me and Chez were making jokes this morning on another board about Dyer out Deco in. Another board? :-[ How could you? http://z3.invisionfree.com/NUFCforum/index.php?showtopic=2951