wacko

Yeah, after 6 seasons of his five-year plan, when things had been going downhill for a while. Basically, since his illness. Don't forget he took us from entertaining also-rans to 2nd place in the league, a unique (if second-rate) treble, and he had an uncanny knack of beating Man U. Seen from another angle, things started going a bit pear-shaped when he tried to play more attacking football, but he's an older and wiser man now. Houllier's made a few cock-ups, but he's got a lot of winner's medals, too. Would they ever, though? You just don't have the money to bring in the quality of players you want in the numbers you want. No-one does apart from Chelsea and Real Madrid. And Bayern, now and again. He's got to build a squad and that takes a few seasons. We were all over the place when Rafa arrived, too. But Allardyce, like Rafa, has a decent track record, so you should show a bit more faith and give him time. It's not like you're in danger of relegation. I agree, though, that's it's possible that he completely mis-judged NUFC and thought he could just turn it into big Bolton. He reminds me a lot of Otto Rehhagel, who was brilliant with underdogs but failed miserably at big clubs. That might just be because they look a bit alike, though. Otto Rehhagel has a large head.

Spurs have got 4 quality strikers, 1 quality midfields + 1 decent one in reserve, and a dozen or so defenders, though I've never heard of half of them. Having said that, if Robinson is no. 1 keeper, it's probably fair to assume their backups are really crap.

Brilliant!

Percentage football. Big job. Sections of the support without patience. Not enough money on the table from the board. Given time will build a difficult side to beat, occassional big scalp top 6 stuff. Over analytical missing factor 'x'...Understands the game but lacks vision. Modus operandi is to fix the club top to bottom will need two years. Should be given the 2 years and money. Then bring in the next level of manager who can challenge for top 4 consistently. I wouldn't sack him unless we were in relegation battle which we won't be. Review in summer at the very least. Yes he will be in a job unless we've lined up a top tier manager (not Benny). if he understands the game, why did he take 3 left footed players off on saturday and replace them with 3 right footed players, so that Rafathrew on babel who had a field day. why was he trying to consolidate a 3-0 defeat at home by going all defensive. even under Souness and Roeder, you would always give us game. you lot were pitiful on saturday. we never realy got out of first gear, and only Torres had an off day, we could have scored 6 or 7, and thats being kind. the most worrying thing for you lot, is the team had no fight. i watched it on telly after i got back home from the match, and your players came out from the half time break looking defeated. You make good points and tell you the truth I have no idea. IMO some of the players are against him......The little comfort zone they see as Newcastle has been rocked by SA. They also suspect he doesn't have the full support of the board which is Mort and MA fault, they need to back Sam or get rid...They seem imo to be sitting on the fence waiting for events to shape their thinking. i've never rated Sam as a manager. his Bolton teams played the worst brand of football, even the Bolton people wouldnt go and watch it. Newcastle have always prided themselves in playing good football, and he wont do that for you. Sam made a name for himself picking up cheap flops from big clubs with a point to prove. that wont work at a club of Newcastles size, your fans arent stupid, and they'll expect better. FWIW, i think youu'd be better with someone like Jol, who could do a good job for you, IF, he is given the control to buy players, and not have a DOF like atSpurs, oreven get Houllier, who would be good for you, and he'd put trophies in the cabinet. England are sniffing round him though, so you might need to act quick to get him It may well be that SA fails here. But it should be the case that he was given a chance imo. Agree with that. His Bolton side was exactly as Man in Black describes, but he needs to be given the chance to show he can step up his game.

Because the ACN is slap bang in the middle of the domestic season for most of these players perhaps? So that means he doesn't deserve to have adequate time to get his squad sorted? He has to wait until the thing starts before calling his squad together, purely to appease European football fans? Seems a little arrogant, no? Absolutely, but the fact of the matter is that the European leagues are much more important than the ACN, if they wanted preparation time then they should hold it the same time as the European Championships. To you, perhaps. I dare say many Africans would disagree. As it is, the World Cup is held during the summer break in the big European leagues, which is already pandering to their interests. Can't blame Vogts, to be honest. His team's losing games and his best players are unavailable because of their clubs. I reckon FIFA or the FA's should compensate clubs when their players are unavailable due to internationals. After all, they make billions from their tournaments while the clubs bear all the risk. That would make it fair, in my opinion. After all, you know when you sign an African player that there's a good chance he'll be missing during the ACN, so either grin and bear it or only sign shit Africans.

The three united players you mentioned cost a combined £60m so unless you have that to spend trhen it's a pretty irrelevant comparison. If someone had mentioned Heskeys or Jones' name as a possible signing for you 3 months ago I bet you'd have pi**ed yourself laughing, two good games later and a couple of goals in Jones' case and now they're viable options. Personally, I think you have three very good stikers on your books, but with the midfield that Big sam has built around them and the style of play that comes with it ther's no way that you're going to be getting the best out of Owen or Martins for that matter.Allardyce spent £13/£14m on three midfielders - not one of which offer you any penetration either by their movement into the box or their passing ability and as a result you have a midfield that works hard, is physically strong and can "put their foot in" but creates very little and IMO, in Alan Smith, you have a player that contributes nothing except aggression. As a result, your strikers are having to make what little service they get go a long way, and if truth be told I can see Allardyce getting rid of both Owen and Martins by the summer. If the rumours are to be believed about you being interested in Crouch then that'd be an interesting signing for you, but again it doesn't get round the problem of the style of play or your midfield. If Crouch does come then yes, he'll be able to hold the ball up better than Martins and Owen (although Owen is decent in that respect) but then who from the midfield will be running beyond him through on goal? At Liverpool we have Gerrard, Babel,Benayoun etc but the only person I could see doing that for you would be N'Zogbia - more often than not you'll have Crouch(or an other target man) isolated against 3 defenders whilst he's waiting for a slow midfield to catch up. This is what I said about Crouch earlier. A piece of the puzzle but nowhere near the complete jigsaw. Personally I hope we don't sign Crouch for me he isn't mobile enough or dynamic, he's also relatively lazy and seems to get tired easily. He's not lazy and he doesn't get tired particularly easily. Rafa always hauls him off early (if he's started) because Crouch covers more ground that pretty much any other player in the side. He looks like he's moving in slow motion, but he isn't.

I think Allardyce proved at Bolton that he could produce a team difficult to beat with meagre resources. I may be totally wrong but my gut feeling now is that Allardyce is out of his depth with a squad which is several notches up on what he had at Bolton. I think several notches is pushing it a bit. Thing is, at Bolton he had brought in all the players himself. NUFC might have a better squad man for man, but are they as well suited to the system? I couldn't see Allardyce signing Owen, for example, even though he's one of the best strikers in the country. It may well turn out that he can't cut the mustard at a big club (just like Otto Rehhagel), but it's far too early to be making that call. You've got to give him the chance to bring in the players he wants. I think several notches would be an appropriate description though I, like you, have no great biased opinion, just describing it as how we see it. The system employed by SA at Bolton was designed to do a job, basically, to keep them up. As he succeeded in that respect and over time the system evolved but not by too great a degree. I would expect that system to have its limit where it can no longer be effective if the long term goal is to continue to take the club forward. Moving to Newcastle and having the current squad, I think SA has already gone beyond the effectiveness of the old system. I did say it was my gut feeling that Allardyce was out of his depth, time may prove me wrong, but Allardyce said he needed 5 years to take Newcastle where he wants them to be and, imho, very few managers get 5 years nowadays, especially one who was not the preferred choice of the current owner. Personally, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see Allardyce gone in the summer. I totally see where you're coming from. Allardyce did a hell of a lot better than just avoiding relegation at Bolton, though, getting them into Europe more often than not in the last few seasons. I think it's too early to say whether Bolton/Allardyce couldn't go further because of Allardyce's managerial limits or Bolton's financial limits. Obviously, it's too early to tell if Ashley will chop and change like the previous regime did, but it'd be a shame to see Allardyce booted out after just one season, without getting the chance to build his own team, unless he makes a complete cock-up of it. He's definitely a massive step up from Roeder. It would be a shame and very unfair on Sam. I am disappointed though that Allardyce only seems to think there's one way to play football. When he arrived I saw him as a manager deserving of better resources that would allow him to compete at the top level. Now, having seen him put out teams outplayed by championship level sides, there is a nagging fear that he is more suited to managing small clubs who can ruffle the big boys. Your first highlighted sentence echoes my thoughts upon his appointment. The second sentence echoes my feelings now. I agree with the first sentence, too, but isn't it really a little bit early to be judging him?

We didn't really spend much, should we have spent more though and patched up plus one or two quality players? In an ideal world, but was the money there? I got the impression that that t*** Shepherd gave that even bigger t*** Souness most of the transfer kitty for the next few seasons. Well initially I thought as you the money wasn't really there...But then Ashley paid off a huge chunk of the debt... He can't be enjoying what he's watching. After the transfer window had closed? I don't know the details. How much did he pay off? How much debt is left?

Good thread. Owen's always needed the ball into his feet (or over the top when he was younger and quicker). He'll never do well in a team that hoofs it these days without a big man next to him for the knock-downs. Owen is a waste of a place in the side if he isn't played as an out-and-out striker. Same with lots of top players, though, especially strikers. Rooney is rubbish pushed out wide or right up front. Even Henry looks ordinary when not played in his favoured position.

We didn't really spend much, should we have spent more though and patched up plus one or two quality players? In an ideal world, but was the money there? I got the impression that that twat Shepherd gave that even bigger twat Souness most of the transfer kitty for the next few seasons.

1. A Premier League Match 12. A League Match in another country. 18. An International 25. A Champions League Match 30. A Friendly 36. A saved penalty 39. Participated in a pitch invasion 50. Travelled more than 400 miles specifically to watch a game. A pathetic 8 18+50 were Germany 1-5 England. Is that not worth extra?

I think he's going about it the right way. There are holes in the squad that need patching first. He brought in a number of good, solid players in the summer, rather than spunking his entire wedge on one brilliant player.

I think Allardyce proved at Bolton that he could produce a team difficult to beat with meagre resources. I may be totally wrong but my gut feeling now is that Allardyce is out of his depth with a squad which is several notches up on what he had at Bolton. I think several notches is pushing it a bit. Thing is, at Bolton he had brought in all the players himself. NUFC might have a better squad man for man, but are they as well suited to the system? I couldn't see Allardyce signing Owen, for example, even though he's one of the best strikers in the country. It may well turn out that he can't cut the mustard at a big club (just like Otto Rehhagel), but it's far too early to be making that call. You've got to give him the chance to bring in the players he wants. I think several notches would be an appropriate description though I, like you, have no great biased opinion, just describing it as how we see it. The system employed by SA at Bolton was designed to do a job, basically, to keep them up. As he succeeded in that respect and over time the system evolved but not by too great a degree. I would expect that system to have its limit where it can no longer be effective if the long term goal is to continue to take the club forward. Moving to Newcastle and having the current squad, I think SA has already gone beyond the effectiveness of the old system. I did say it was my gut feeling that Allardyce was out of his depth, time may prove me wrong, but Allardyce said he needed 5 years to take Newcastle where he wants them to be and, imho, very few managers get 5 years nowadays, especially one who was not the preferred choice of the current owner. Personally, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see Allardyce gone in the summer. I totally see where you're coming from. Allardyce did a hell of a lot better than just avoiding relegation at Bolton, though, getting them into Europe more often than not in the last few seasons. I think it's too early to say whether Bolton/Allardyce couldn't go further because of Allardyce's managerial limits or Bolton's financial limits. Obviously, it's too early to tell if Ashley will chop and change like the previous regime did, but it'd be a shame to see Allardyce booted out after just one season, without getting the chance to build his own team, unless he makes a complete cock-up of it. He's definitely a massive step up from Roeder.

I think Allardyce proved at Bolton that he could produce a team difficult to beat with meagre resources. I may be totally wrong but my gut feeling now is that Allardyce is out of his depth with a squad which is several notches up on what he had at Bolton. I think several notches is pushing it a bit. Thing is, at Bolton he had brought in all the players himself. NUFC might have a better squad man for man, but are they as well suited to the system? I couldn't see Allardyce signing Owen, for example, even though he's one of the best strikers in the country. It may well turn out that he can't cut the mustard at a big club (just like Otto Rehhagel), but it's far too early to be making that call. You've got to give him the chance to bring in the players he wants.

He's crap in front of goal, but the first name on Rafa's teamsheet every week it seems. He brings something to the side, but goals, skill and guile it ain't. Good enough as a second striker, but his shooting's too bad for him to be no. 1 at a big club.

All the top managers have their own particular system and style. The system comes first, and players are bought and sold to suit that system. By extension, they often need time to get in the right players for that system. I think Allardyce proved at Bolton that he knows what he's doing. Give the bloke 2 or 3 seasons to build the squad he wants and instill his system, I reckon he'll do the business for you.

Like the one that Doctor David Banner had?

Perhaps he was doing wind-sprints against the horses?

Wow! Fantastic picture. What a cool owner.

These two have history from Allardyce's Bolton days. Bolton always annoyed the hell out of Rafa, and he invariably had a pop at them before and/or after the game, so I'm not surprised to see Allardyce having a dig back, even if it was a completely bizarre thing to say.

There was a game, I think it was an Ajax game where there was a drop ball from miles out and when it was played back it lobbed the keeper, so they let them walk it into the net. Complete reverse of fair play there was a German game, think it was Bayern where one team scored, had it disallowed and whilst they were celebrating the opposition went up the other end and scored! Do you mean where the keeper Butt scored against Schalke and spent so long celebrating with all his teammates on his way back to goal that Schalke kicked off and lobbed one in over his shoulder?

I heard a lot of the players didn't get on with Ballack. Bit of a lazy so-and-so.

Not bad players, either of them, but not outstanding. I reckon they'd both get very homesick, to be honest.

I don't agree with your first point. There are any number of managers who would have done as well given the resources available. Not that Mourinho isn't a very good manager. There's nothing unique about Chelsea, either. Abramovich is apparently following the Real Madrid model. Agree totally on your verdict on Abramovich and Mourinho, though. Top manager, crap chairman. To be honest, I wouldn't mind him staying if he wants to turn Chelsea into Little Real and keep throwing his money at other clubs. I much prefer characters like him to these MSI types.

You would want piss-boring footy at NUFC?