KaKa

Kaka makes some good points, there are some top quality footballers out there and that seems to be the area Vetere has scouted, if you look over the past few years how many people who don't play FM had heard of the likes of Berbatov, Elano, Corluka, Kranjcar, Pedersen, Manuel Fernandes, Luis Valencia, Gelson Fernandes, Yakubu etc? Perhaps the football manager comment is harsh but I wouldn't say any of that lot is household names, the best thing about them though is that not only have they come over here and looked the part but they're are/were at a decent age when they got here so there was plenty of room for improvement.

 

Keegan on the other hand comes across as someone stuck in his ways and even though he's done well for us in the transfer market the last time I still have my doubts about what he'll come up with this time, talk of Riise and Wayne Bridge hardly set the pulse racing and my biggest worry is that's the sort of player he's going to go for, well known Premiership players who have hit their peak and will soon be on the way down.

 

It appears the club have gone about putting together a quality scouting network which will hopefully be as good as any in the Premiership yet Keegan comes across as not being happy to use it, which would be a waste.

 

Mort's comments in the match programme were spot on, for this club to ever move forward we need to sign players who are not only good enough now but who are nowhere near their peak and can get even better over the following years, players like Modric or any of the above when they first came over here who can possibly stay here for the next 10 years if they're good enough, not the likes of Henry who will need replacing in 2 years time.

What it all comes down too is the fact that Keegan is going to have to sit down with the new scouts and have a look at the players they have made a note of. He has to be open to this and I pray he will be. We are going to have to get players in who are not that familiar to everyone. Talented players who are still on the verge and haven't quite been pounced upon yet.

When Sven was going after all theose players remember the stick he got? About how he scouted them all through yout tube. Well he had the last laugh didn't he.

How about Eduardo? The media went on about how he wasn't fit for Arsenal coming from the Croatian league and how he could never eplace Henry etc etc etc. Well he was well on his way to looking like a hell of a player to me!

We can do this and Keegan really ought ot be more up for it.

In all seriousness though, I have to agree with Baggio on this one. I have been somewhat irritated by the talk coming from Keegan lately.

I personally am not really one to go for the whole "all the top layers are going to the top four talk", I know this is the case a lot of times, but there are just so many good players out there.

Every season we see them come into the premier league and join teams that were much worse off than us while we spend big on some has beens.

We are just going to have to go for the not so obvious targets. Yes it's a risk but as long as we do our homework we should be alright. Our new network of scouts seem like they can definitely identify the best talent all over the world , but the problem is with Keegan having the final say, will he only be familiar with the obvious names which we can't get at the moment due to the high interest in them?

All the players who joined Man City last summer (MAN CITY!!!) would all still walk straight into our team but they went there didn't they and they all looked great to me. Santa Cruz was another one who I doubt would have turned us down. Boro took a punt on ALves and he is showing potential. When Kranjcar joined Pompey and has looked smashing.

There are good players out there. Keegan might just have to be a bit more receptive to bringin in pople he might not be as familiar with. Someone like an Arshavin who is a bit under the radar at the moment is probably the type we should be looking at right now.

“If I’m a player and I get the option to go to Chelsea or Newcastle, the Press would slaughter me, asking where my ambition was (if I chose Newcastle)

David Bentley turning us down?

This is hugely embarrassing and rather pathetic.

Disgraceful behaviour from Shola. Man up and go and make something of yourself you wimp.

What is this obsession with the 4-4-2 formation anyway?

Isn't the priority to play good, effective and attractive attacking football? Isn't this what we have been doing throughout are good run of form?

We should make use of the formation that gets the best out of our best players and achieves the goal of good football.

owen will be first choice as a striker if we revert to 4-4-2

 

he cannot play the am in a diamond, that would leave only one player right behind him, and i think that would be stretching it.

 

personally i hope we stick with 4-3-3 and the change to 4-4-2 sometimes when needed.

Wow ... you do realise that we have been playing a diamond formation since Birmingham and all the way through our unbeaten run right?

It's been Martins and Viduka upfront, with Owen in behind them and a narrow three of Barton, Butt and Geremi, with Butt sitting deep.

We have not been playing a 4-3-3. We have been playing a 4-4-2 with a diamond midfield.

Haven't seen Darren Bent play in a while thanks to Tottenham, and I can't quite recall how good he is at holding the ball up and bringing others into play. I do like him as a player though, but I'm just not quite sure if he can provide what Viduka does.

Santa Cruz and Kenwyne Jones would be perfect but I think they would be very difficult to get.

and another three pages of people pointing out that the people moaning how long the thread is are making it bigger

 

And another 2 pages of people moaning about people moaning about how long the thread is

And another page of people joking about people moaning about people moaning about how long the thread is 

Everyones having a say now like ... your favourite Martin Samuel's take.

Kevin Keegan confronts grim reality at Newcastle UnitedMartin Samuel

Newcastle United's offer for Luka Modric, the Croatia midfield player, was €22 million. By the rate of exchange at the time, the bid worked out in the region of £18.5 million. The player went to Tottenham Hotspur, who informed the Stock Exchange that Modric cost £16.5 million, which was to be paid in four instalments. Newcastle were asked to pay their transfer fee in two.

 

In addition, Newcastle believe that Modric joined Tottenham for roughly half the wage he requested to relocate to Tyneside. Club executives fear that this will be the theme of the summer. Modric did not want to go to Newcastle for various reasons, so he asked for exorbitant personal terms. No doubt had Mike Ashley, the Newcastle owner, been willing to meet them, Modric would have rejected Tottenham, but his motives would have been questionable.

 

This is the harsh reality for Newcastle, only half alluded to by Kevin Keegan, the manager, after defeat by Chelsea on Monday. Keegan gave a reasonably frank assessment of the frustrations he faces, but the full picture is more unnerving. Much of what he said was merely an echo of the commentaries when he took the job in January, opinions that were dismissed on Tyneside as the sniping of cynics.

 

As Keegan now concurs, it is a different league from the one he came so close to winning in 1996 and breaking into the elite quartet of clubs is a nigh impossible task, short term. The collapse of the Modric transfer, in which Newcastle offered more money and better wages, flags up just about every obstacle that the club will face.

 

On a professional level Tottenham could offer European football next season, albeit in the Uefa Cup, and point to a trophy won as recently as February, the Carling Cup. Newcastle will not compete in Europe and do not possess a trophy cabinet so much as a collection of antiques, the most recent being the Fairs Cup in 1969, won 16 years before Modric was born. Then there is convenience. London has 11 weekly direct flights to Zagreb, daily from Heathrow, with four more from Luton. Flight time is little more than two hours. There are two options from Newcastle, neither direct, one involving a 3½-hour stop in Paris, the other via Heathrow with an additional two hours of hanging about. The best journey time to Zagreb from Newcastle involves two planes and 5½ hours from take-off to landing, the worst takes two planes and almost seven hours. This stuff is significant.

 

There is a reason why more northern regional accents can be heard in the north, east and west suburbs of London than the south. A person from Leeds who goes to work in the capital wants to make a weekend return a straightforward task, so will often choose to live with easy access to the exit routes. They will not want to be based in Kent and negotiate two hours on the M25 before hitting the M1. Modric is no different. A London location makes the odd Sunday back home attainable; from Newcastle it is a chore.

 

What Keegan could not admit is how his own role has changed. A decade ago he was young, vibrant and on the up. His Newcastle team went from success to success, his football was bright and exciting, his reputation was high. Players wanted to be part of that; they wanted to play for Keegan. On Tyneside the gleam of that smile, that enthusiasm, has never dulled, but beyond the area it means little.

 

If Modric was asked to weigh Keegan against Juande Ramos, the Tottenham head coach and the winner of the Uefa Cup twice with Seville, he would go with the Spaniard every time. By comparison, Keegan is merely a local hero. In one way he is perfect for Newcastle because he carries the supporters and that is necessary in a time of transition, but in another he keeps them mired in the past because he is part of a period that is only ten years gone but is from another century.

 

Keegan has talked of bringing Thierry Henry to Newcastle and his enthusiasm for the project has not gone away, particularly because Henry has had an unhappy time at Barcelona and may wish for a change. Yet Henry may well continue to suffer from complications resulting from sciatica, which was diagnosed in 2006. Barcelona would surely wish to recoup a large chunk of the £16.1 million transfer fee they paid to Arsenal and Newcastle would expect to be asked to pay in the region of £125,000 a week in wages for a player who will turn 31 in the week the 2008-09 Premier League season starts. This is the uptown version of the policy adopted by Alan Curbishley, the West Ham United manager, who has cornered the market in costly players who were at a peak several years ago, such as Fredrik Ljungberg, Henry's former Arsenal team-mate.

 

Newcastle are walking a thin line because contained in Keegan's realistic assessment of his position was a subtext that suggested that a more damaging explosion of frustration was not far away. Right now, Keegan's target is the uneven Premier League playing field. When asked if the brochure was not as advertised - his memorable comment when briefly walking out on Sir John Hall, the former Newcastle chairman, in February 1992 after promised transfer money did not materialise - Keegan insisted that his present situation was not the same at all. “The brochure has changed,” he said. “The destinations are different now.”

 

Yet he did ponder how much money he would have to spend and whether there would be money at all. The impression he gave is that, like most managers, he feels that he needs £50 million, preferably by next Monday, and then he can have a proper crack at the job.

 

The unpleasant reality is that £50 million, which appears to be the standard fee for having a go these days, will not touch it at Newcastle, not even come close. Manchester City spent £50 million last year, so did West Ham, and where has it got them? Mid-table, much the same as Newcastle. Liverpool may need £50 million to stay in touch with Manchester United and Chelsea and this was a team who were one match away from a third Champions League final in four seasons. Arsenal may need £50 million to maintain a challenge if they lose Alexander Hleb as well as Mathieu Flamini this summer. It cost Sunderland roughly £40 million to stay up. And even if Newcastle spend £50 million, what then? There is talk that Roman Abramovich, the Chelsea owner, will find the same sum soon for one player, Kaká, of AC Milan and Brazil.

 

So to what level do Newcastle then go? One hundred million? Two hundred million? For a club in their position to compete properly, think of a number, then double it, treble it, cube it, who knows? Abramovich has Andriy Shevchenko, a £30 million striker, on the bench, as Keegan observed. Yet, having admitted that it is impossible to compete in such an environment, in the next breath Keegan talks of needing money. No wonder Ashley is unwilling to commit too heavily. Would you?

 

Ashley bought the club for £134 million and wiped out debt in the region of £100 million. He is in for close to £250 million and having got over the “man of the people in a replica shirt” stage has told his lieutenants that he wishes the club to be run as a business. The financial stretch of owning Newcastle has disturbed him. He bought the club in a hurry and much of the due diligence process went uncompleted, so certain aspects of football finance have surprised him, not least the fact that transfer money is due in instalments, meaning that he has been presented with outstanding bills for several players that he thought the previous regime had bought outright.

 

More than 80 per cent of Newcastle's turnover is taken up by wages, when a reasonable model states that above 60 per cent makes a business precarious. This is a concern, too. Say Ashley did find the money for Henry. His wages alone would account for a further £1 million every two months, and this for a 31-year-old with sciatica. Shirts would fly off the shelves in the club shop, but not in sufficient numbers elsewhere. Newcastle have not had the success to be a leading commercial player beyond the locality; the club are big in Newcastle. Henry's tab would land directly at Ashley's door.

 

Not long ago Keegan remarked that every owner was looking for a manager such as Arsène Wenger. Maybe he knew the way Ashley wanted to take Newcastle forward, which is through Dennis Wise, his general manager, introducing the best young players to the academy. The problem is that this is everyone's Holy Grail. Each youth tournament is besieged by development officers, directors of football and executive scouts, all fighting to identify and sign the next Cesc Fàbregas on the cheap.

 

Wenger has spoilt it for everyone by keeping Arsenal in contention while spending £18 million since 2004 because now all owners think that their clubs can be run on those lines. Yet it took decades for Wenger to build the necessary network of global scouts and contacts and, even then, the club have not won a trophy in three years, however many points have been scored for artistic impression. Say Wise focuses all his energy on identifying the best 15-year-olds across Europe and luring them to Newcastle. Keegan's contract expires in 2011. What does he do in the meantime? Act as a cheerleader for the supporters when he knows that his words are hollow?

 

This is a huge dilemma for a club of ambition, whether limited or acute. Newcastle cannot afford to be foolish in the transfer market this summer and they cannot afford not to be, either. No wonder there remains fog on the Tyne.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/martin_samuel/article3882824.ece

NEWCASTLE chairman Chris Mort insists the Toon will not risk becoming “another Leeds” to break into the top four.

Mort was reacting to manager Kevin Keegan’s stunning outburst after Monday’s 2-0 defeat at home to Chelsea.

Keegan said Newcastle had no chance of finishing any higher than fifth during the three years he has remaining on his contract.

The Toon boss also confessed he had no idea how much was available to spend in the summer but, whatever it was, would not be enough to break the dominance of the Premier League’s big four — Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool.

It was interpreted by some as Keegan challenging the board to bust the bank or pay him off and find someone else to do the job.

And for Toon fans it was crushingly disappointing to hear such realism from The Messiah — a man they still believe can deliver the Premier League title.

Twelve years ago Newcastle almost did it with King Kev at the helm.

When he returned to the club in January there was talk of completing unfinished business. Not any more.

Nobody on the St James’ Park board knew Keegan was going to lay it on the line — especially with season tickets to sell.

But Mort was adamant Newcastle would not plunge themselves into crippling debt.

And he admitted the club’s expectations were no higher than Keegan’s

He said: “We don’t want to do a Leeds. It doesn’t make sense.

“This club had £100million-worth of debt which has now been cleared and it would be foolish to stretch it beyond its limits.

“I thought Kevin’s comments were quite sensible.

“I’m not sure what people’s expectations are but I don’t think most Newcastle fans would be greatly surprised by what he had to say.

“There are those who are naturally optimistic but it does no harm to come out with some realism and say that if we get fifth we will have done well. He’s right.

“I wasn’t taken aback by Kevin’s comments. He says what he feels. We have just come out of a relegation battle so you can’t have people surprised when the manager says we aren’t going to get into the Champions League.

“This is a long-term building project and we are very happy with Kevin.

“He’s a very enthusiastic character who has got the team playing good football.

“We were disappointed to lose to Chelsea but he’s got the team playing well.”

Newcastle recently lost out on Croatian midfield star Luca Modric.

The Dinamo Zagreb player went to Tottenham for £16m where he joined Jonathan Woodgate, another target the Toon failed to nail.

But Mort claims Newcastle WILL be making quality new signings.

The scouting team, led by Dennis Wise, have been combing South America recently — although Keegan argued he was not keen on signing players from there.

That has led to increased concerns not everyone is singing from the same song sheet.

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Yet Mort reiterated Keegan will have the last word on who comes and goes.

The chairman said: “We have started talking about who we will be bringing in and Kevin will have the final say. He has to have that.

“We are very happy with where we are but Kevin is quite right to say we shouldn’t expect Champions League football.

“It’s going to be tough for anyone to break into the top four.

“Someone might sneak in there occasionally and there are a number of sides who will have a go but it is incredibly difficult.”

Keegan’s views are echoed by Portsmouth boss Harry Redknapp, who reckons it would cost £150m to gatecrash the top-four party.

Pompey lie eighth after splashing out £40m this season — 16 points adrift of fourth-placed Liverpool.

Redknapp insisted: “You would need £150m to spend to have any chance of breaking into that top four.

“Look at Liverpool. Last summer they spent £28m on Fernando Torres and he is a fantastic player but who else can compete with that?

“I agree with Kevin. I do not see any way anyone else can break into the top four.

“If someone put £200m into Derby this season then they could have been a successful side — and that’s the sort of money that will happen in the Premier League.”

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article1132376.ece

This player apparently plays either on the left wing or as an attacking midfielder, and is not a defensive midfielder.

Maybe he is our fall back option after Modric didn't quite work out. Seems to play similar positions to Modric.

Would fit into the Geremi/Barton role in our current setup. Hopefully replacing Geremi.

Owen has played well enough recently to think he should demand a decent wad of cash.

 

Owen has also played infrequently enough for NUFC to think he probably shouldn't be given the wad of cash he is asking for.

 

It's definitely not going to be smooth sailing these negotiations. I'm also more inclined to believe preliminary negotiations have started too.

 

When a player says they haven't approached him yet that probably means that they haven't offered what he is hoping for I would imagine.

 

So KK saying they haven't entered negotiations means what then?

 

I only remember Keegan saying  that he wanted Owen to stay. Did Keegan actually say Owen and Newcastle haven't started talking yet?

 

Yes.

 

Any evidence of that?

 

 

 

Yes there is, go find it.

There isn't and you know it.

I'd even have Zoltan Gera ahead of Bullard tbh.

Owen has played well enough recently to think he should demand a decent wad of cash.

 

Owen has also played infrequently enough for NUFC to think he probably shouldn't be given the wad of cash he is asking for.

 

It's definitely not going to be smooth sailing these negotiations. I'm also more inclined to believe preliminary negotiations have started too.

 

When a player says they haven't approached him yet that probably means that they haven't offered what he is hoping for I would imagine.

 

So KK saying they haven't entered negotiations means what then?

 

I only remember Keegan saying  that he wanted Owen to stay. Did Keegan actually say Owen and Newcastle haven't started talking yet?

 

Yes.

Any evidence of that?

*tin hat on*

I know this will annoy some, but I could see a situation where things were so far apart in the initial discussions that it had to be put on the backburner till the end of the season? So although they could all say "we haven't started talking" there could still be a situation.

Look, I just think it would be very difficult to determine what to pay Owen at the moment. We clearly didn't get value for money the first time around due to his injuries and in all honestly his first contract was a disaster for us. He was supposed to help fire us into Europe so the investment would be worthwhile, but it didn't happen.

We really can't guarantee he will stay fit from now on, and in fact, judging from his history he will likely be injured again before long. If we gave him a new contract and he did get seriously injured yet again how would we all feel about it? Honestly?

I really don't know what the club should do here. It is a very tough call in my opinion.

Owen has played well enough recently to think he should demand a decent wad of cash.

 

Owen has also played infrequently enough for NUFC to think he probably shouldn't be given the wad of cash he is asking for.

 

It's definitely not going to be smooth sailing these negotiations. I'm also more inclined to believe preliminary negotiations have started too.

 

When a player says they haven't approached him yet that probably means that they haven't offered what he is hoping for I would imagine.

 

So KK saying they haven't entered negotiations means what then?

I only remember Keegan saying  that he wanted Owen to stay. Did Keegan actually say Owen and Newcastle haven't started talking yet?

Owen has played well enough recently to think he should demand a decent wad of cash.

Owen has also played infrequently enough for NUFC to think he probably shouldn't be given the wad of cash he is asking for.

It's definitely not going to be smooth sailing these negotiations. I'm also more inclined to believe preliminary negotiations have started too.

When a player says they haven't approached him yet that probably means that they haven't offered what he is hoping for I would imagine.

Question ...

Where have all the Taylor is better than Faye people been all season?

One half decent game, and that's all it was really, and people are claiming he's our best defender and better than Faye.

Rubbish. Taylor is never better than Faye and Faye isn't even brilliant but just a serviceable no nonsense defender. So what does this all mean? It means Taylor really isn't that great at all.

Better than Faye?! Crazy talk.

Also linked to Crouch again today. I wasn't too hot on this a little while ago, but he would suit our current setup really well in that Viduka role, as he is very good receiving the ball to feet and maintains posession and finds a teammate very well.

I'm struggling to think of any other strikers out there, who we could realistically go for, who could come in and give us the same type of play as what Viduka brings in our current setup. There are few foreign strikers who are in this mould and in the premier league the only other guy other than Crouch is perhaps Ashton, but Ashton is always injured as well.

Will be interesting to see who Keegan goes for.

l'equipe (via tribalfootball ) say we've bid £3.5 million for Stephane Sessegnon apparently.

 

 

Done a bit of digging. This player apparently plays either on the left wing or as an attacking midfielder, and is not a defensive midfielder.

Maybe he is our fall back option after Modric didn't quite work out. Seems to play similar positions to Modric.

Would fit into the Geremi/Barton role in our current setup. Hopefully replacing Geremi.

I can't really imagine Martins in Arsenal, looks exactly like the player Arsenal won't sign..

People say this kind of thing and I wonder how much they saw of Adebayor when he first joined.

We will sign Nasri, I'm certain of it.

Cuellar and Richard Dunne?

That would be nice.

It's so true what they say about foreign players having to have the right personality.

I don't think this is taken into account enough. It's part of the reason Martins has settled so well and has formed such a bond with the fans and the area because he does seem to be very outgoing. Someone like Luque on the other hand always seemd a bit withdrawn.

£16m for Villa?

 

What we waiting for?

A growth spurt?