KaKa

If Martins had a full season in the premierleague i'd put money on him getting 20 goals.

 

He only missed 6 games last year....and only managed 11 goals in the 32 he played.

In his first season in the premiership and without having a pre-season with us, after having joined us so late in the window.

Adebayor? Been very very impressed with him, not and never will be a goalgetter, but he's a promising player, last season he couldn't do anything, looked way out of his depth, came on in leaps and bounds since.

Coach did you not say this yourself?

Adebayor is the same age as Martins is he not? So if you felt he went from not being able to do anything to becoming a promising player and furthermore a goal getter which you didn't feel he could ever become, then why do you feel Martins will not progress any further?

What a goal.

More good points KaKa. I've been a critic of Martins in the past, more out of frustration than anything, but I've always maintained that I hoped he would prove me wrong.

I'm just trying to show that there is a balance to this whole thing. Athletic ability and footballing intelligence are both important. I think a player who has top class athleticism and maybe not as much footballing intelligence is still as valuable as one who has a top class footballing brain but lacks athleticism.

At the end of the day it's not as if Martins has zero intelligence or he wouldn't even be able to get into some of the areas he does to score. Equally it's not as though Owen has zero athleticism either, or he wouldn't score some of those leaping headers which he does.

It's all about what you surround different types of players with and what else you do to get the most out of them.

The idea that Martins will never be good enough because he is so unintelligent really irks me.

How stupid is this argument?

 

Let me simplify things.

 

Would I rather have this 'unintelligent' player who will score 20 goals for my team, from headers, volleys, shots from outside and inside the box, right foot, left foot etc. or the intelligent player who does fook all unless he is 6 yards out and it is laid on a plate for him.

 

Martins is still raw and is not always pleasing on the eye, and will not always make the correct decisions, but he is a goalscorer, he scores goals. It's really that simple surely? Especially considering how poor we are in this department.

 

Give me the unintelligent goalscorer anyday thanks. You lot can keep watching Owens intelligent uneffectiveness all you want.

 

Ridiculous comments.

 

 

You've completely missed the point, as tends to be your way.

 

The people debating the intelligence bit seem to be in complete agreement that Martins should be playing, possibly even as the first striker on the teamsheet. Nobody is currently using it as an argument of picking Owen over Martins, unless I've missed something? So what exactly are you going on about?

 

The issue that myself and others have taken issue with is the fact that some people are claiming that Martins, while being the African Superman in his spare time, is an "intelligent" footballer. Which I assume to mean that he's got good decision making, good positioning, makes good runs off the ball and generally works in the interests of the team. I perceive the truth as being the same as what you've just posted, for the most part, about him being someone who will be frustrating, but who could still be more valuable to the side than anyone else.

 

Read the posts before going off on one, man.

 

Very irritating attitude some people have towards the guy. People will say Owen needs a partner with more strength and pace beside him because he is so pathetic in these areas, but won't say Martins needs a partner with more awareness and creativity to help get the most out of him.

 

that last part is a very, very good point...

You see despite Martins limitations in making the perfect runs, I would still argue that there are players who you could play beside him who would still recognize how to get him the ball and would actually communicate with him on the pitch during the game to give him a better idea of what spaces he needs to get into while they are both out there playing together.

Do any of you think he has ever played with anyone who even comes remotely close to doing this? Dyer was the closest and that is when Martins looked at his best for us.

Also I have to say, although I agree with the idea that some aspects of football intelligence just cannot be taught, i still believe some aspects can be improved.

Simply improving Martins runs into space is one thing that can certainly be improved despite how much some believe he lacks intelligence. Have him out on the training pitch working with a consistent strike partner and have them simulate different match situations and the types of movements they both should be making.

Oh wait ... he has never had a consistent partner has he! Also, I doubt we have ever done anything like the above with him outside of the actual team training sessions.

How stupid is this argument?

 

Let me simplify things.

 

Would I rather have this 'unintelligent' player who will score 20 goals for my team, from headers, volleys, shots from outside and inside the box, right foot, left foot etc. or the intelligent player who does fook all unless he is 6 yards out and it is laid on a plate for him.

 

Martins is still raw and is not always pleasing on the eye, and will not always make the correct decisions, but he is a goalscorer, he scores goals. It's really that simple surely? Especially considering how poor we are in this department.

 

Give me the unintelligent goalscorer anyday thanks. You lot can keep watching Owens intelligent uneffectiveness all you want.

 

Ridiculous comments.

 

 

You've completely missed the point, as tends to be your way.

 

The people debating the intelligence bit seem to be in complete agreement that Martins should be playing, possibly even as the first striker on the teamsheet. Nobody is currently using it as an argument of picking Owen over Martins, unless I've missed something? So what exactly are you going on about?

 

The issue that myself and others have taken issue with is the fact that some people are claiming that Martins, while being the African Superman in his spare time, is an "intelligent" footballer. Which I assume to mean that he's got good decision making, good positioning, makes good runs off the ball and generally works in the interests of the team. I perceive the truth as being the same as what you've just posted, for the most part, about him being someone who will be frustrating, but who could still be more valuable to the side than anyone else.

 

Read the posts before going off on one, man.

I guess I had more of an issue with the person who said, he is unintelligent and is therefore no the long term answer.

What the hell does that mean?

Some players are brilliant and effective because their footballing intelligence is better than others even though their athleticism might be inferior.

Some players are brilliant and effective due to their outstanding athletic abilities even though their footballing intelligence mightnot be as good.

Why is one of these supposedly better than the other?

In martins we have someone who can score goals in an astonishing variety of ways, yet because he is ot 'intelligent' enough he isn't good enough for us.

Why not appreciate his undeniable abilities and surround him with more 'intelligent' players and take advantage of the player he is.

Very irritating attitude some people have towards the guy. People will say Owen needs a partner with more strength and pace beside him because he is so pathetic in these areas, but won't say Martins needs a partner with more awareness and creativity to help get the most out of him.

How stupid is this argument?

Let me simplify things.

Would I rather have this 'unintelligent' player who will score 20 goals for my team, from headers, volleys, shots from outside and inside the box, right foot, left foot etc. or the intelligent player who does fook all unless he is 6 yards out and it is laid on a plate for him.

Martins is still raw and is not always pleasing on the eye, and will not always make the correct decisions, but he is a goalscorer, he scores goals. It's really that simple surely? Especially considering how poor we are in this department.

Give me the unintelligent goalscorer anyday thanks. You lot can keep watching Owens intelligent uneffectiveness all you want.

Ridiculous comments.

Oba.

Our only hope.

He'll at least keep every game interesting that's for sure.

I found it funny how so many of our random long punts upfield actually started looking half decent because Martins actually had the pace to chase them down and pressure the defender tracking back. For this reason alone he has to be on the pitch, considering how many times we punt the ball upfield aimlessly. Owen just doesn't have the pace to make anything out of these situations.

I really can't believe anyone could ever justify not having Martins out on the pitch. It makes me sick.

I couldn't believe Keegan had the nerve to play Duff as a second striker today, while Martins sat on the bench! Are you freakin kidding me? Is he crazy?

He is definitely looking at names and past reputations right now, and that is quite unfortunate. Two from Duff, Smith and Butt, should be on the bench for Martins and Geremi. No doubt about it.

Everyone seems desperate for Oba and Zoggy, and while I agree, especially with Martins for the utterly useless Smith, they have both had crap seasons for whatever reason.

 

Just like our home fix vs Fulham, Reading n mackems are not guarenteed points, neither are these to bring us victories.

 

Our squad is s***, we will have got off lightly if we stay up and need major changes in the summer. Having said that we just need a break of luck.

 

Apart from Viduka against Boro, it took until October for us to score a goal that didn't involve either Charlie or Martins. That's with Charlie playing at LB for the majority of the season, before and after and Oba being f***** about in midfield by Allardyce since. The pair of them are quality and need to play.

 

Anyone who doesn't see this is just deceiving themselves.

 

You only have to look back at the types of goals these guys score. They have the ability to do things no one else in our team can. Look at Martins goal against Bolton or even the one against Man City for goodness sake! Zoggy's against Boro?!

 

We are so predictable right now and we have no scoring ability in the team. Say what you want about Martins and Zoggy but at the end of the day they aren't afraid to shoot!!!

 

Duff the dilly dally man will never shoot on time and Owen will only shoot from two yards out. God have mercy! How anyone can argue against Martins and Zoggy in the team is beyond me.

 

 

Martins proving why he should be in the team for every single minute of football remaining for our team this season. Say whatever crap you want about him, but he is a dangerous weapon to have on the pitch for our team.

Look at how his pace and agression forced both Riise and Skrtel into errors and directly led to goalscoring opportunities. I won't even mention the unbelievable 40 yard strike as I couldn't even begin to do it any justice. These things not only lead to goals but they lift the team.  This is who he is.

Owen on the other hand? He was waiting around for a perfect chance in the 6 yard box, so he could miss it again.

It's a bloody joke it really is. I'll let Keegan off for today's game, but I swear if he doesn't get it through his thick skull that Martins is our greatest goal scoring threat then I pity him.

I'm glad they got this worked out.  He's a class act, seen him a gazillion times, just what we need.

 

 

i hope yer right on that

Whoosh?

Definitely.

Most African players are so well suited to the physical and frantic nature of the premiership so I'm not surprised.

One thing we can be sure of is that he will have a good work rate and he should be strong and physical. Hopefully, he's got some pace too, although he is 32.

I expect to see a player similar to Faye, Meite or Samba. That sort.

The one not so negative thing about going down this season is that we've got absolutely no players we would be devastated about losing. The only one that we would be unhappy to lose really is Zoggy, and even then it really wouldn't be that big a deal.

If we went down I can honestly say I would be happy about the fact that it would mean the certain sale of the likes of Barton, butt, Smith, Owen, duff and Viduka, as there will always be clubs in the premiership after these louts.

It would honestly excite me to see us introduce a fresh new team mostly made up of youngsters I would imagine, with the likes of Carroll playing a much bigger role at the club.

It would suck if we were in the championship next year but I have no doubt I would enjoy watching and supporting the team we would have, more than watching and supporting the team we have had this season in the premiership.

Whatever will be, will be.

I am confident MA would do all he could to bring us back up and so would Keegan.

Yup. Papers are killing us tomorrow apparently.

Yet another downer of a week.

I just want the season to end, whatever the circumstances.

I worry about the yanks.

 

They grow up watching the MLS so what chance do they have?! Hardly inspiring stuff.

 

 

I'm sorry but you really do live on a different planet to everyone else. Much like me I suppose.

 

Foreign Leagues such as the Premier League are more popular on US television than MLS.

Not unless you get a certain cable provider which has fox sports network from what I remember (I went to university in Philadelphia).

I worry about the yanks.

They grow up watching the MLS so what chance do they have?! Hardly inspiring stuff.

Why do people keep talking about 2 in the last 4???

He's had a good run of games now and didn't just return 4 games ago did he???

When was the last time he scored prior to the infamous 2 in the last 4 out of interest???

Owen scores in big games when the heat is on.

 

Like yesterday?

 

No one is guaranteed to score in every match.

 

He won't get three better chances than he had yesterday. He's finished. Quicker everyone accepts it, the quicker we can get shot and move on.

 

He's not the player he was I agree, but he'll still get us crucial goals this season IMO.

 

 

It fascinates me how many peopel believe this. I'm not knocking you or anything but I just don't understand what inspires this belief.

He is never visible in most of our games and hardly ever even gets any chances never mind actually finishing them off!

I can't see it personally.

The majority of games we don't even see Owen much. At least with Martins he is visible in every game and is in at least two very good goalscoring positions every game, even if he doesn't score them all.

Owen is showing he won't score them all either, destroying that silly myth. The problem is though, he will only get himself half the chances or even less that Martins will.

Bottom line: I don't trust Owen to score the goals to win us games and keep us up.

We'd better find a way to have Martins out there too.

Chris Mort gives Kevin Keegan vote of confidence at Newcastle United

Kevin Keegan today received the backing of Newcastle United's chief executive following their 1-0 defeat to Blackburn Rovers at St James' Park.

Chris Mort insisted the beleagured manager would soon turn results around, despite his side having failed to win any of the seven games they have played since his return to the club.

Newcastle lie just three points above the Barclays Premier League relegation zone but Mort said: "Clearly Kevin wants to turn results around, that's what he has come in to do. It is disappointing but it will come. Kevin has got the players playing very well and I am sure the results will follow.

"He has come to a club that didn't change its manager in the middle of the season because things were going well. It wasn't going well and the team were playing poorly. Results reflected that and Kevin came in knowing it was going to be difficult to turn it round. That's what he's working on and he's got the team playing in a manner everyone in this part of the world appreciates."

Mort is also confident that Keegan will see out the job and not walk away as he has done in past pressurised situations with Newcastle, Manchester City and England.

"There is no doubt or worry [about that]," Mort said. "Kevin is enjoying being back in Newcastle. He is clearly at home in the city and has been made very welcome. Once the football turns round I am sure he will be thoroughly enjoying it."

There has already been talk of unrest behind the scenes with doubt surrounding how much input Keegan had over the appointments of Dennis Wise as executive director of football and, more recently, Chris Hughton as assistant manager. But Mort was quick to play down that speculation, saying of Wise's role: "When we interviewed Kevin for the manager's position we said we wanted a particular structure in place with someone experienced working with the board, particularly on recruitment and developing the Academy.

"At that time we had narrowed it down to two or three names and we gave those names to Kevin. He knew the structure and the individuals involved and we wanted to make sure he was comfortable with it."

And regarding Hughton's job, Mort said: "Kevin made the first call to see if he was interested. I got involved after Kevin and Chris had talked and Chris expressed a great desire to come and work at Newcastle United."

Mort took up his position last summer following Mike Ashley's takeover of the club. Since then there has been constant talk that Ashley may look to sell, but Mort insists he is keen to stay. "Mike doesn't get down," Mort said. "He enjoys his Saturday afternoon football and would probably enjoy it more if results were going well. He is fully supportive of Kevin and fully enjoys his football. We haven't sought anyone to buy the club.

"People have called us. People will say, 'Are you interested in selling Newcastle?' and the conversations don't go any further because we're not.

"Mike is the owner of the club and it will be his decision but he is not encouraging me to sell the club."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/newcastle/article3469151.ece

Why is this stupid boy even drawing attention to his crap self?!

What an inappropriate time to start talking about this.

Please take him out of the team as he is clearly not focused on the task at hand the muppet.

Everyone seems desperate for Oba and Zoggy, and while I agree, especially with Martins for the utterly useless Smith, they have both had crap seasons for whatever reason.

 

Just like our home fix vs Fulham, Reading n mackems are not guarenteed points, neither are these to bring us victories.

 

Our squad is s***, we will have got off lightly if we stay up and need major changes in the summer. Having said that we just need a break of luck.

 

Apart from Viduka against Boro, it took until October for us to score a goal that didn't involve either Charlie or Martins. That's with Charlie playing at LB for the majority of the season, before and after and Oba being f***** about in midfield by Allardyce since. The pair of them are quality and need to play.

Anyone who doesn't see this is just deceiving themselves.

You only have to look back at the types of goals these guys score. They have the ability to do things no one else in our team can. Look at Martins goal against Bolton or even the one against Man City for goodness sake! Zoggy's against Boro?!

We are so predictable right now and we have no scoring ability in the team. Say what you want about Martins and Zoggy but at the end of the day they aren't afraid to shoot!!!

Duff the dilly dally man will never shoot on time and Owen will only shoot from two yards out. God have mercy! How anyone can argue against Martins and Zoggy in the team is beyond me.

I've only just mustered up the heart to log back on.

I've just read the last few pages and I'm happy someone agrees with me that if Zoggy and Martins had started we would have won this game no problem.

Keegan isn't helping himself if he is relying on Duff and Owen. Like I said in another thread, apart from just not getting the job done, they are two of the most dissapointingly weak and frail individuals ever. They fall over and get pushed around all game, and it just sets the tone for our attack being largely toothless.

The energy and drive of both Martins and Zoggy would make a huge improvement not just productively but psychologically too.They will do things that lift the crowd and their fellow players just by being more physical and aggressive in general.

I don't understand why people can't see this.

I have to say as well, bringing the likes of Zoggy and Martins of the bench is pointless because they need more time to get into the game, and get a feel for the game without forcing things.

Bringing them on to make an impact makes them look even worse. Their techniques aren't their best features and putting them on to make an impact late in the game means they tend to force the issue and press too much and it never pans out. It just gets really ugly.

I agree with your sentiments HTT and Keegan shouldn't be too blame.

 

However, we have only 2 matchwinners in the team who can produce something out of nothing no matter how bad things are.

 

Martins and Zoggy ought to be in the team for the whole match, every game, as long as they are fit. We cannot afford to not have them in the team for even one second.

 

 

And that's my whole point. If we have to rely on Martins and N'Zogbia....

 

 

 

Rather them than Duff and Smith/Owen.

 

So what is Owen now? A set piece specialist? Can he still score from open play?

 

N'Zogbia does nothing new that Duff doesn't do while Martins may have more pace than Owen but he's a s**** f****** footballer. God I can trap a ball better than him. Like for like as far as I'm concerned or rather swap one set of problems for another different set but equally the same in general terms.

If I had two sets of players of a general similar ability then I will always go with the faster, stronger and more athletic pair.

More chacnes in general, more freekicks, more mistakes forced on the other team.

It's not difficult to see how that works surely?

As a defender I know who would make me more nervous, and it sure as hell wouldn't be the pathetically weak and slow Duff and Owen. Their falling over against every slight challenge just sets the wrong tone for the team, it has a mental effect I swear it does, we just get pushed around and bullied too much upfront. We instill no fear in anyone. Zoggy and Martins would alter that to some degree for sure.