merlin

With our record, you dam well should though..

We have added pressure to stay up now, following yesterday's result at the Emirates ; Arsenal going out of the Cup and, to all intents and purposes, fading from a PL championship challenge may just be the nudge their board need to bring Wenger's time as manager to an end, esp as Spurs are going so well. I need hardly tell anyone who the prime candidate would be to replace him should we fail to stay up and should Ashley/Charnley start backing down on transfer commitments even if we DO survive....... And it won't be Allardyce...! Tonight's game just became far more important....

Was it Pearson in charge when we lost 6-0 at Man Utd? Or am I re-writing history? Think that was Steve Clarke I'm sure it was Pearson, didn't Ronaldo score 3 and Tevez get 2? It WAS Pearson.

This is, sadly, only too possible and my fear too.

Cannot expect miracles in this game. They have their tails up, esp after Man C's dropped points at Norwich and we need to score first, and quickly, if we are to unsettle them. Hopefully, Rafa's coaching MIGHT have enabled us to keep them out for a while and then hope for frustration setting in. A draw would be fantastic and, had the club acted after Chelsea, may have been feasible, but the game is very difficult as this stage.

I might have lowered by estimate before Monday's game had Norwich lost to Man C...they didn't, so it becomes even more imperative that we get results against them and the Mackems. Rafa has a tough job - will review again on Tuesday...

A great summing up Mick and I hope beyond hope that we are able to keep the guy happy at NUFC for the foreseeable future. I am sure he WANTS to be a success, but as I said the other day, the club have left him a mountain to climb and then we have to depend on Ashley playing the game afterwards. I too think Benitez COULD prove the best manager we have had in terms of possible trophy success, but he does need proper backing for the next few years.

Because a lot of clubs seem to think they don't matter and buying a load of players will sort everything out. Not a coincidence to me that a lot of the mid table teams who have figured it out have magically gotten significantly better. Also, the guys who were famous ex-footballers tend to get a free pass based on their popularity without necessarily having the slightest idea how to set up a football team. Yes, far too much of the 'Old Boys' mentality in football...that also applies in the area of managers' pay offs(where else do you get millions for failing at work?)and punishments for players where the PFA prevent them being fined more than 2 weeks' wages. Look at the failures of the likes of Bobby Charlton as a manager ; how disastrous Beardsley is with the Youth/Reserves ; how even our own Jackie Milburn proved too nice a guy to hack management, whereas the likes of Mourinho and Wenger, who never really played at top level, proved top rate managers. The Germans in particular have a more professional way of appointing coaches and managers.

Delighted that the club have at last appointed a manager who has the sort of record the club and fans deserve. All the upside will become apparent if he keeps us in the PL because it seems there is an escape clause in his contract should the club go down. If we survive AND he gets the budget for players HE wants, a good future could lie ahead. The only worry I have(apart from the usual one about the club once again pulling defeat from the jaws of victory)is that a study of his record shows that he rarely stays at a club more than 2-3 years...the longest spell was with Liverpool, 6 years. However, if he manages 3 years at NUFC and we end up with one of the Cups at the end of it, the whole thing will have been worth it ; even when he has been with clubs for a short spell, he has often won a trophy. The downside is that as we have said, the club has taken far too long to bring him in....KK had from Feb 5 1992 until May 1992 to keep us up and he had a better basis to work with in that level of football than Rafa has now unless he can really put a bomb up the players' backsides. We have to play some difficult matches, not least starting on Monday and every game is vital. The derby is probably the most important game since WHU at the end of last season because all the pressures of a derby - at home - coming after a series of defeats to the Mackems and with both clubs separated by a single point - are magnified by the fact that it is Rafa's first home game as manager and the expectation will be tangible. Win this and the whole morale of the club will lift and the side will get terrific backing for the remainder of the season together with a renewed belief in themselves. Losing is unthinkable unless it is because of very bad luck etc. Huge pressure on the guy, but he has the pedigree and experience to handle it...the big question is whether the players do.. Nevertheless a really good appointment and I wish him every success - everything will be crossed until we are safe.

He is a top guy - how many current PL managers have won the CL with an English side or managed a TOP Spanish or Italian side..? Having said that, his record shows that his longest spell at any club was with Liverpool...6 years. Most periods have been around 1-3.

Not if it wins us games About time this stupidity about NUFC fans preferring a 4-3 defeat to a 1-0 win was put to bed...PERMANENTLY. Winning is all that matters, esp in our position and I will take a boring 1-0 win every time. Attractive football can be played when success and safety have been achieved.

Course they are. They're undoubtedly jealous as f*** and rightly so. If (big if) we stay up, this literally paves the way for us to be the dominant NE team again for years to come after their 6 in a row or whatever it is We need to beat them or at least get a point from the derby....do that and we can start dreaming about being top NE side again. They will spout even more of this type of stuff unless we can get a result in the derby ; if we DO win, they will get extremely worried, as would we if the positions were reversed.

Read it carefully - I didn't actually say that at all. I simply said that Allardyce has more experience in fighting relegation from the PL and he has a set of players who seem to have more stomach for a relegation fight than ours...is this true or false..? I also said that Benitez has not been given enough time to ensure safety...if he does so, he will have achieved something equally as difficult and praiseworthy as any of his previous successes. But why does he have more experience? It's because he is s*** and his teams always struggle. In no way does it make him better equipped than a manager who wins. It's a crackers notion. Because 50% of football is about attitude...yes, you need basic skills and in that respect we have more than the Mackems apart from a couple of players but if there is no essential will to win and willingness to die for the cause you can have all the skills in the world and you won't win the majority of games. A manager who is used to professional players with the right attitude will find it a culture shock when he takes over a club whose players couldn't give a stuff and he has to either succeed in motivating these losers OR replace them...both options take time...ask KK - a manager is only as good as his players.

I agree with this - IF Benitez signs, he will be faced by an incredibly difficult situation. Not only have the dumbclucks in charge left it too late(he should have been in after the Chelsea game) to give him a fighting chance but he will be dealing with a bunch of players who are probably the most spineless he has had to manage in his whole career. Not only are they spineless, but some are already making plans for themselves at what they consider to be better clubs than NUFC and have zero reason or motivation to rouse themselves for the fight ahead. Also, as this mackem says, Allardyce has had much experience of facing possible relegation and the players he has at Sunderland may not be as talented as some of ours but they DO seem to have more stomach for the fight - we shall see how much Newcastle players want to stay up when we watch the Derby very soon and we CANNOT afford to lose that. Given 2 sets of similar players in a mid-table situation, you would choose Benitez over Allardyce every day of the week, but these clubs are not in that position. IF NUFC stay up, Benitez would do a great job given time and finance to get the players he needs, but he faces a really tough gig if he becomes manager. Nobody could condemn him if we still go down because he has very little time to sort things out and that is not his fault. I would never chose fat Sam over Benitez under any circumstances. If we do get him, and I think we will, our unmotivated players will all get a bounce and I can see the players improving enough to get us out of trouble. I think the derby atmosphere will be very similar to the first derby after we were promoted and that will also boost our performance . This might sound daft but a fit and motivated Cisse could keep us up on his own, we just need somebody to find that player. Exactly that, Benitez has a major reputation within the game and probably the contacts to match, even those players wanting out are unlikely to want to p*ss him off/not try because there's a decent chance whoever is considering them will talk to Benitez (if the useless f***ers in charge manage not to f*** the appointment up - which I still believe is a high possibility) and the players won't want to seen as t***s and future negotiations coloured by "even Rafa couldn't get them to play to their best" thoughts. because that'll cost them real £££'s in negotiations. I hope you & Mick are right but I do not have much faith in the shower we call a squad. They have hearts the size of peanuts and care just as much about the club as they do about the winners of the local Women's Institute Jam making contest...Cisse and Tiote have wanted to leave for over a year....

Read it carefully - I didn't actually say that at all. I simply said that Allardyce has more experience in fighting relegation from the PL and he has a set of players who seem to have more stomach for a relegation fight than ours...is this true or false..? I also said that Benitez has not been given enough time to ensure safety...if he does so, he will have achieved something equally as difficult and praiseworthy as any of his previous successes.

I agree with this - IF Benitez signs, he will be faced by an incredibly difficult situation. Not only have the dumbclucks in charge left it too late(he should have been in after the Chelsea game) to give him a fighting chance but he will be dealing with a bunch of players who are probably the most spineless he has had to manage in his whole career. Not only are they spineless, but some are already making plans for themselves at what they consider to be better clubs than NUFC and have zero reason or motivation to rouse themselves for the fight ahead. Also, as this mackem says, Allardyce has had much experience of facing possible relegation and the players he has at Sunderland may not be as talented as some of ours but they DO seem to have more stomach for the fight - we shall see how much Newcastle players want to stay up when we watch the Derby very soon and we CANNOT afford to lose that. Given 2 sets of similar players in a mid-table situation, you would choose Benitez over Allardyce every day of the week, but these clubs are not in that position. IF NUFC stay up, Benitez would do a great job given time and finance to get the players he needs, but he faces a really tough gig if he becomes manager. Nobody could condemn him if we still go down because he has very little time to sort things out and that is not his fault.

This - hope it happens because he is one of the few that might keep the club up, but I will believe when he is attending a press conference and being announced as manager.

The sensible thing would have been to have somebody lined up after the Chelsea game, our lot not panicking is what got us into the current situation. It's about time the pricks did panic because they're s*** at what they do when they have time to think. Maybe they can come up with a decent solution if they don't think about it. They're as thick as pig s*** and every decision they come to makes them look even thicker. If these morons get something right it will be by accident. You are using far too much logic Mick - these guys are beyond humour and contempt...the very fact that Charnley is running the show tells you all you need to know and to have Moncur involved is pathetic..as for Carr, he is on the biggest jolly of his life making lots of personally beneficial contacts in France.....its pathetic, they are floundering around like kids in the deep end.

Whether McClaren goes or not, I will keep them at 9 until I see the first display under the replacement...IF there is one..

This is all very obvious and very basic. Mourinho is always the level and type of Manager that should be at Newcastle United, but that is obviously not what Ashley believes, thinks, or wants. Under Ashley, that is also what an awful lot of Newcastle United supporters (particularly the younger ones who have known nothing better) have come to believe and accept - Managers like Mourinho are now TOTALLY out of our reach. Ashley's total obsession with "aiming for 4th bottom" every season has infected the club and many of us supporters so comprehensively, that many of us can never imagine anything better! It wasn't very long ago, the Bobby Robson and Kevin Keegan eras, but it might as well be 100 years ago. If we do really well for the rest of the season, and fulfil Ashley's ambition (and therefore stay up) we can expect pretty much the same again next season, no matter who the manager is. Reality really hurts (well, it hurts me) but I don't expect everyone to agree. People have almost forgotten . . . . . Unfortunately, SJH had faded from the scene when it came to running the club when Shepherd fired Robson. SBR was SJH's appointment, he wanted him from Barca when KK left in 1997 and despite opposition from Shepherd & Co, pushed for him to get the job in 1999. If Sir John had still been active in club affairs in 2004, it is hard to imagine that he wouldn't have asked SBR to join the board and for advice on a successor, in which case Mourinho would have been a likely choice. All ancient history now and although it IS possible to see Jose taking the job on a 10 match basis if paid enough and left to run things, it is impossible to imagine this being in in the minds of the pygmies running the club. Also, there is virtually NO chance of Mourinho getting involved after the end of the season, he is almost certainly bound for OT. Very few available managers are going to be capable of keeping the club up now.

A great article by Hayward - who is not always keen on NUFC - which hits the nail squarely on the head...Ashley is the root cause of all the problems ; it was HE who appointed Jiminez and Wise causing KK to walk ; HE who appointed JFK ; HE who gave Shearer 8 games to save the club then treated him like dirt afterwards ; HE who fired Hughton when the club was in a safe PL place in its first season after promotion ; HE who appointed Pardew on the advice of his loud-mouthed associate Llambias ; HE who sold the naming rights to one of Britain's greatest stadiums and cost the club millions in Ad revenue ; HE who appointed an out-of-his-depth Office boy to run one of the largest clubs in England who then proceeded to employ Carver and McClaren(who had already refused the job once), managers in name only who then proceeded to complete the destruction job started by Pardew, Carr(on the jolly of his life), Moncur, Beardsley and their useless associates. Even after all this and with the evidence of his growing commercial failure mounting by the day, Ashley STILL continues down the same path like a runaway road-roller destroying everything in its path. As Hayward says, he is responsible for destroying the faith of a generation of fans and worse than this, probably another as well because it is going to take YEARS to sort the club out after he is gone and it may never be the same again. The final straw for me was that when faced with the overwhelming evidence that the club was diving head-long into the Championship after the Chelsea hammering, they all ducked the issue when they had 18 days for a new manager to try to stem the disastrous fall and it took a hammering by a side in the old 3rd Div not long ago, at SJP, to force ANY acknowledgement that there was a problem. Even now, you wouldn't be surprised if they ducked firing McClaren once again because these people are either desperate to protect their own ghastly necks or scared witless of ballsing it up once more, as is their default setting. Many years ago, during KKs successful first spell, an associate asked me what I though about having Beardsley as manager later on....I laughed him out of court, saying Shearer maybe, but NOT Beardsley because he simply isn't manager material. I was right, but it wouldn't surprise me to see this happen in some sort of botched arrangement in an attempt to ingratiate themselves with the myopic idiots that will still support this failed regime. Heaven help the club if they get this wrong now...Shearer AND Hayward are spot on.

Carr is basically on a jolly with his 'contacts' in France....lots of nice meals, cheap wine and offers of chateaux to stay in for his hols...and other benefits too. His credibility went when he signed Thauvin.

Which is an utterly incredible position to take. Signal to McClaren they have no confidence in him while actively looking for his replacement, what incentive would he have to continue doing anything in his position? This club man, shattering records for incompetence every season. The Somalian government functions better than this lot. tbf a majority of clubs will have at least a good idea on who they want to replace someone on the brink of the sack and will have probably informally gotten a signal on if he'd take it espicially mid to late season. Of coarse a sane club would have taken the chelsea game and the 18 day break as the ideal time to sack someone, sort out the replacement and he'd have time to assess the squad and get some decent training in. This - absolutely.

If McClaren hasn't gone today, he's not going. If he IS fired, we will be lucky to get any of the names which are regularly put forward on here...Rafa for example, is a complete non-starter unless Ashley has a complete brainstorm and gives the next manager full control of deciding which players he needs ; Moyes MIGHT be a possibility, but maybe only on a short-term basis and as we know, he needs longer than a few matches to build a team. Rogers I wouldn't desperately want, but that's unlikely anyway. None of these guys really need a job - they would take the right one, but they all have enough cash to keep them in a comfortable lifestyle until the right one comes along and NUFC is FAR from the type of job they would take under the present owner/directors. The idiot running things will not want his judgment called into question by having to sack McClaren so unless Ashley has leaned on him and made it clear McNugget has to go, I will be surprised if there are any major changes. That means relegation is virtually nailed on....as with signing players, they have left it all too late to reasonably expect a new guy to save the club from going down but without a change, there is NO chance of survival.

Moyes is a higher class of manager than McLaren like. Whether he can keep us up is another matter and would need to be given time but I would be all for it. Moyes can build a club if given time. Pardew and McLaren destroy clubs because they are born losers Agree with this - Moyes is NOT a failure, he built a decent club at Everton and as for Man U, look at how LVG is getting plastered by their fans/media and he is one of the most successful European managers...the problem is that Moyes needs time, he is not a quick fix figure as KK was and even KK had another month to keep us up in 1992...Moyes would do OK in a year or so, but we can't really expect any new manager to work miracles in the time left to him. Even the Tinker Man would be hard-pushed to keep this lot up.