merlin

They will come to SJP thinking they can get something because we have been far more vulnerable at home than away....they will also be hoping/gambling that Shelvey will not be available and they are likely to shove 2 men forward to pressurise our m/f and back 4. This is a game which has genuine banana-skin potential because of the likely circumstances and they will also bring a large and noisy following because it is Boxing Day. Vital that we score first and early...if they get their noses in front we may not have the guile to break them down without Shelvey and a result here is vital before Diame/Atsu etc depart for the ACN in Jan. We need to hold our nerve for these games because whoever cracks over the Christmas period, esp between us and Brighton, may be second favourites for the title.

Agreed - NUFC are the experts at blowing safe positions...anyone who witnessed the Cup Final in 1974, the play-off v the Mackems in 1990 or the failure to win the PL in 96 would follow this line. No further comment from me until it is assured.

Don't give a stuff about away performances as long as we get the necessary result ; this is an element that has been lacking from NUFC for many years as we have never been really able to string together a series of ground-out away wins...its either been a great attacking performance(rare)or a defeat. Having said that, there is no doubt in my mind that there will have to be at least 4 new, PL-standard players bought if and when we go back to the PL...and that is with this team. Heaven help us if we managed to blow it now, but this is Newcastle United..!! Hopefully Rafa has instilled enough professionalism in these guys to keep the wagon rolling along. From reports we are getting about Mbabu's performances in Switzerland, he could be a real benefit in future and may save us some needed spend on a LB.

Delighted with the result, performance and to see the side back on track again...lots of character shown after the farce of last week and Brighton momentarily displacing us at the top on Friday, just the response needed. Good that Diame finally seems to have found some form and woken up...such performances are needed in order to take the weight off Ritchie and Shelvey. A pity he has done this just before his departure to the ACN in a month's time. Great tonic for the fans in the important lead-up to the Christmas fixtures.

Aye, I am actually shocked by this outcome As am I - it may have happened before, but I can not remember a side having TWO red cards overturned from the same match...clearly a tacit admission by the FA that a)Lansbury cheated and b)we were robbed of a result by the dismissals. Caulkin is quite right - Lansbury SHOULD get the two red cards for his cheating and actually, the game should be replayed with one of his suspensions being that one... Can't have everything though and this is as good as any side would get from the FA - I am normally no fan of theirs, but they have to be congratulated on taking swift and correct action to right most of the wrong.

Get Gina miller on the case, shes mad on justice her like. Mad on money, more like...or just Mad..

Er - they once played a 17 year old against Arsenal and he scored a hat-trick....his name was Shearer I believe... You know what he's getting at, he means recently (I'd guess since Bale) and I'd guess a bigger reason could be the quality of the kids we are talking about, the coaching they've received etc to get them to that stage, theirs were good enough. It's hardly like we've had floods of kids leave our academy and make it at premiership level even with other clubs. The results of NUFC's Academy over the past 15 years has been dire...esp in a football-mad area like the NE, but in fairness its a major problem generally because kids are not playing the game as much, they are not receiving the sort of encouragement and coaching at schools and many schools have sold off playing fields. There are too many off-field distractions in prosperous countries now.

Er - they once played a 17 year old against Arsenal and he scored a hat-trick....his name was Shearer I believe...

I can see dummett's being overturned. Referee will say in his report that he thought Dummett deliberately pushed their player over with no attempt to play the ball, FA will lap that up and keep the decision as it is. This. FA will take the easy option and back the ref. Do bears s--t in the woods..?

I cannot believe you wrote this unless it was an attempt at irony....Cole was a raving success from almost his first game for us and scored 41 goals in 93/94 beating George Robledo's effort in the 50s. No way will Perez score 15 goals, even in this league.

Great buy for the money - wholehearted midfielder with great tackling ability. He has time to get better too and we will need him over the next few weeks.

He's on course to be one of our best keepers - better than Krul in my opinion and this is the 3rd pen I can remember him saving(Cabaye's last season was vital). He doesn't panic and does everything with a cool head. Did NOT deserve to be a loser in this game.

This was the worst piece of football officiating I have seen in over 50 years of watching the game...and I have seen plenty of bad stuff(yes, Trelford Mills etc etc). Clark's header should have stood, nothing wrong with his challenge and just as much obstruction from the Forest defender ; Linesman AND Ref missed Lansbury's foul on Shelvey before the latter retaliated ; awful decision to give the second pen after a nothing challenge from Dummett on - yes, Lansbury again...and so it goes on. Strangely, we looked to have more urgency AFTER Shelvey went off(he sometimes slows up play too much)but whilst we could have survived with 10 men there was no way, esp with these officials, that we would with 9. This may now force the club to look at an urgent replacement for Shelvey(he could be out until end of Jan)and unless there is a release clause in Mbabu's loan deal, we could come to regret letting him go to the Swiss because we will have to play Clark at LB when Dummett is out. Cannot see us remaining at the top of the league for the next few weeks unless Brighton also suffer a bad spell and this period coming up is now a big test for all at the club...we were the better side for long periods tonight but all that counts for nothing unless you put the ball in the net...AND have decent officials..

It's an aspect of that whole incident that a lot of people of overlooking. Shelvey did f*** all wrong, Lansbury got him sent off and he should be thoroughly ashamed of himself for that. He kicked out in retaliation. It's been a red card offence for as long as I can remember - Beckham on Simeone in '98, Vieira on van Nistelrooy etc. Do find it staggering however that a penalty was given for what was essentially a foul on Shelvey in the first instance. Incredible that Lansbury went unpunished. This - absolutely. Shelvey deservedly went for retaliation but Lansbury should have been penalised initially for his trapping of Shelvey's legs before the retaliation. Poor miss by the linesman and ref in my view and had this been spotted at the time things would have been different. Show me the violent contact, show me the evidence. Shelvey lashed back at Lansbury after he had been scissor-trapped by Lansbury's legs...no doubt about it, I saw the replay twice but Lansbury should have been penalised for the initial foul.

It's an aspect of that whole incident that a lot of people of overlooking. Shelvey did f*** all wrong, Lansbury got him sent off and he should be thoroughly ashamed of himself for that. He kicked out in retaliation. It's been a red card offence for as long as I can remember - Beckham on Simeone in '98, Vieira on van Nistelrooy etc. Do find it staggering however that a penalty was given for what was essentially a foul on Shelvey in the first instance. Incredible that Lansbury went unpunished. This - absolutely. Shelvey deservedly went for retaliation but Lansbury should have been penalised initially for his trapping of Shelvey's legs before the retaliation. Poor miss by the linesman and ref in my view and had this been spotted at the time things would have been different.

I mentioned Allen when I posted that KK had signed a guy from Millwall(that was Allen but I couldn't remember his name at the time). You are right about Papavasiliou, but he was basically a squad player - notable for creating the goal at OT for Andy Cole which brought us our first point of the 93/94 season after 2 defeats(home to Spurs and away to Coventry).

A bit, but not much rose tinted stuff - look at how many of the KK promotion side went on to help the club finish 3rd in the following season in the PL...how many of the current side would remain automatic fixtures if/when we get promoted...? I reckon we would need at least 5 new players to get anywhere NEAR 3rd in the current PL....yes, the PL has more money in it now, but KK really didn't spend big until the close season of 94/95. As far as I can remember, the only 2 players he signed that were immediate first team fixtures in Summer 93 were Venison and Beardsley and both of them were a comparative pittance, even then. Venison came at the start of the promotion season. Thanks, I wondered about that but seeing as he did just highlights my point even more really...I know KK signed a couple of basically squad players(one from Millwall after Beardsley got injured at Liverpool in pre-season, one from Scotland, Alex Mathie I believe). I knew Beresford was signed before the promotion season but wasn't sure about Venison. Would that we could get away with such limited transfer activity now...! There were no transfer windows back then remember, so we added players through the season. Rob Lee came in reasonably early, we added Andy Cole and Scott Sellars mid-season. Yes, I made that point in an earlier post.

A bit, but not much rose tinted stuff - look at how many of the KK promotion side went on to help the club finish 3rd in the following season in the PL...how many of the current side would remain automatic fixtures if/when we get promoted...? I reckon we would need at least 5 new players to get anywhere NEAR 3rd in the current PL....yes, the PL has more money in it now, but KK really didn't spend big until the close season of 94/95. As far as I can remember, the only 2 players he signed that were immediate first team fixtures in Summer 93 were Venison and Beardsley and both of them were a comparative pittance, even then. Venison came at the start of the promotion season. Thanks, I wondered about that but seeing as he did just highlights my point even more really...I know KK signed a couple of basically squad players(one from Millwall after Beardsley got injured at Liverpool in pre-season, one from Scotland, Alex Mathie I believe). I knew Beresford was signed before the promotion season but wasn't sure about Venison. Would that we could get away with such limited transfer activity now...!

A bit, but not much rose tinted stuff - look at how many of the KK promotion side went on to help the club finish 3rd in the following season in the PL...how many of the current side would remain automatic fixtures if/when we get promoted...? I reckon we would need at least 5 new players to get anywhere NEAR 3rd in the current PL....yes, the PL has more money in it now, but KK really didn't spend big until the close season of 94/95. As far as I can remember, the only 2 players he signed that were immediate first team fixtures in Summer 93 were Venison and Beardsley and both of them were a comparative pittance, even then.

Still trying to work out why they signed this guy..

Agree - a wake up call that was very necessary because plenty of fans are making Swans out of our Geese players. Rafa's imposition of better team discipline cannot disguise the fact that this side is far from a finished article and it is a long way from KKs 92/93 side in most departments. The current team is probably better in CD, but nowhere else....compare Andy Cole with Gayle(I wouldn't have Gayle over Cole, despite how well he has done), Kelly with Mitrovic(no way Mitro will score 27 goals this season OR give the side the movement and running that Kelly did), Peacock with Perez(no contest), or Rob Lee with Diame etc....only Shelvey stands equal to Scott Sellars in m/f. Beresford was a far better LB than any we have now. The KK side DID have its odd hiccups at home(think Grimsby and dropped points to Millwall) but nearly always looked more convincing in its attacking play...they would have beaten this Hull side away . No blame to Rafa, he has done a brilliant job in such a short time but I don't think some of these players are as good as pundits think they are. Some crucial signings needed in Jan and it is not a good time to do it ; KK was lucky in that he didn't have the Transfer Windows to cope with and could strengthen his side when he needed to(i.e. signing Cole & Sellars in mid-season)but we are where we are. A couple of good signings would knock some complacency out of certain players and concentrate their minds....as for Sels, I don't think he is as good as Darlow and certainly NOT as good as Pav was. A disappointing result and performance but I am not sorry we are out of the Cup this time ; promotion is beyond vital if the club is not to regress again and a good result at Forest is now imperative to restore rhythm and confidence. There will inevitably be talk of a 'bad spell' if we lose on Friday.....

We desperately need a better player for the No 10 role...Perez is never going to be top drawer and the Champ seems to be too physical for him. Signing a priority in Jan as is a CM.

Absolutely on the button....Promotion - and automatic at that - is the aim - NOTHING else.

Agreed - the league is by far the most important task and as far as I'm concerned the cup is a distraction and something we can concentrate on when back in the PL. In 1992, when this happened at home to Grimsby, we had gone 11 league games and won them and we had a bigger cushion in points than we do now. This Achilles heel of home defeats(3 v 1 away)is getting to be a concern, esp when it occurs against a poor side and we cannot afford to lose many more games. Brighton are only 1 win behind us and Reading closing too so there cannot be ANY assumption that we are guaranteed to go up. The play-offs are a lottery so automatic promotion is a must. Losing at home or dropping 2 points, can happen but its the manner of defeat that counts and this performance seems to have been very poor. Should have enough quality to beat Blackburn at SJP whichever side Rafa puts out but clearly not. We need a replacement for Perez badly and cover for Shelvey in m/f ; if the latter gets banned by the FA we will struggle in those games. A LONG way to go yet, a wake-up call for many and like HTT, the reason I won't go higher than an 8 for promotion or even review it until after Christmas.

Still on an 8 for me - the Shelvey case still has to be resolved and it is more likely than not that he will be suspended..probably for 5 matches ; this will cause us a problem because we do not have another recognized playmaker who would be so dominant. This thread needs to be revisited again in January when we will have a better idea of where we are likely to finish.