merlin

Get yourself down the bookies then. Some of them are offering better than 3/1 for a Fulham win. According to nufc.com, Joe Coral is offering 10/1 that NUFC will be PROMOTED, never mind winning the League....seems a bit different from the Skybet odds offered last week....!! Looks much more generous than the 3/1 for a Fulham win which could happen at this stage of the season.

If Rafa has seen anything in this guy he will keep him...if not, he will get rid as soon as he feels able to - we have a proper manager now and most trust his judgment. Thauvin has a lot to prove and the Champ will be tough for him but he might have realized what playing in English football requires. We shall see.

Absolutely NO comparison between Cole and Mitrovic - Cole had far more pace, especially off the mark, and was a hit from the moment he was put into the side. Mitrovic's best quality is as a target man and he will never get even half of Cole's 93/94 total of 41 goals in a season. Cole was an instinctive striker, perhaps even more so than Shearer, although Shearer was a better all-round CF - Mitro is nowhere near to either player and I doubt he ever will be. We need a better goalscorer than we currently have or it may end up costing us dearly and I bet Rafa thinks along the same lines.

We'll soon see whether Charnley has learned anything from his catastrophic errors if we return to the PL next season.....if Ashley tells him to cut back on the signings Rafa wants to make, he'll do it in my opinion...a no-mark in a job way beyond his capabilities.

Wijnaldum was totally unsuited to being at a team and club like NUFC when he signed....we were a club going nowhere and with a mediocre set up in the boardroom and in the training ground. The negativity of the whole situation would soon transfer itself to a player like him, a mercenary with no ties to the club other than his paycheck so it was inevitable he would be on his way as soon as we went down. Good player technically, but a liability in the Championship where big hearts are as important as skills...that is why Rafa has been signing the players he has already, and I reckon only about 3 of them will be decent in the PL if we go back up. We need the money, Gini needed to go, good deal on both sides because Wijnaldum would not have been an asset in the Champ.

The main thing now is that the money from Gini and probably, Sissoko, is spent wisely, whether it be now or later - we need a decent striker as well as a creative midfielder because I have doubts as to whether Shelvey will do the business regularly. We don't look strong on our right side either with Janmaat likely to be another departure and even if he stayed, his displays last season were poor at the back. You have to remember that KK had the benefit of 3 or 4 young players from our youth development when he took over - Watson, Clarke, Howey and Elliott, all of whom played a major part in promotion and establishing us in the PL afterwards...Rafa has Lascelles(NOT a product of our own development)and maybe Mbabu and Armstrong, both not proven at this level so Rafa will have to buy players and the Championship is, in my opinion, certain to be a tougher proposition this time than it was either in 2009 or 1992/3...just look at some of the clubs already there, let alone the other 2 relegated sides... The 'ballwinner' article on the Championship Planning thread sums it up for me ; NUFC are EXPECTED to lead the chase for the PL and if they don't there will be a lot of pressure on everyone at the club so as the article says , it will be tough to settle in all the new players quickly. Nevertheless, I will be surprised if Rafa doesn't have the club in a promotion position by March.....

Looks a good signing and one that will give us options at the back - this lad should know all about the Championship and how to handle the physical side of it as well as being still quite young for a CB. Always believed that you should build good sides from the back and Clough, Revie, Shankly and Fergie also had that philosophy. Rafa is doing a great job...all we need now is to get Lucas in P/Ex for Gini and there will be plenty of experience and steel in the middle of the side. A pity the Adams deal hasn't come off, but maybe there is still time as Sheff U won't want to sell their best players before STs are sold. If we get a new striker things will look very promising indeed....

A very good summary by HTT....agree with most of it, slight difference between KK & Rafa in that KK was pulled by the club because of his emotional links via his father and his time as a player here, whereas Rafa has taken a cold hard look at NUFC and likes what he sees - he knows the club can be so much better than it has been and that the potential is limitless once he gets it back into the PL PROVIDED he gets the support of the owner. He will do a great job given a bit of time but he will be off if he thinks there is any backsliding by Ashley & Co...I believe he wants to see the club competing at the top of the PL in time and it is still a matter of conjecture whether Ashley will share Rafa's long term ambitions for the club. I wish him every success and at least he has given the club a chance to have one of the world's best managers - he has won just about everything, even more that KK and SBR did in their time in the game and getting us into a PL challenging spot within 3 years would equal anything he has achieved so far.

This will not be an easy game - this is a tough league to escape from and despite the excellent signings Rafa has made so far, it will take time to bed them down into a compact side. Every team in this league, with the poss exception of Villa and Norwich, are going to treat NUFC's visit as a cup final and we will need a great deal of determination to win matches . The last promotion side had few signings to bed in and were fortunate in having a nucleus of mature experienced players who were expecting a physical battle from the off - that is why we got going so quickly. If we get a point at Fulham, I will be satisfied...we DON'T need defeats early on, but if we can win home matches and get a point away until the side properly gels, I will be happy with that. I hope I am wrong, but that is the way I see it - we SHOULD have more quality players than most Champ sides but there are some potentially big clubs there and it will be no cake walk. I doubt it will be a repeat of 2009-10 but hopefully class will tell by April.

He's gone, wasn't at NUFC 5 minutes, we made a few bob on him and although he was one of the few forwards who could run at people with the ball he was not a regular in the Spurs side. He's a southerner, no roots or attachments in the NE so in my view its better he has gone - I trust Benitez to sign a player who will be at least, if not more, effective in the Championship so not worried....we are doing OK with transfers right now.

I'm actually going to go for Lascelles - Townsend may have been sold, Mitrovic can do well in the Champ but I reckon Lascelles' performances towards the end of last season earmark him as a stand out defender in the Championship. Mbabu will also do well if given time.

If all the players had Jonas' feel for the club we wouldn't be heading for Championship oblivion now. Glad he won his case, KK first, now Jonas, who will be the third member of the 'beat Ashley in court' club..?? What a total shambles it all is...

'Eventually' means when the opposition are ALSO cr-p...!!

I agree entirely - I keep making this point, but too many fans think NUFC are immune from going the same way as Sheff Weds/Utd, Wolves etc. By the time they wake up it will be too late and even 'shopping with the wife' will beat what's on offer at SJP eventually.

Why o why would you do that to yourself? I've made a concerted effort this season in trying to convince my 9 year old son that he should support NUFC by experiencing various atmospheres (the derby, away games etc). At 3-0 down today he wanted to leave. It feels like I'm doing entirely the wrong thing tbf but I'm from Newcastle and all of my family bleed B&W even though we don't live in the NE anymore. Not sure I'm doing the right thing but, if Ashley goes, you never know. It's the hope that kills you. My little 7 year old girl has asked a couple of times in recent months, for me to take her to a game. I'd love to as my dad did with me, but why put her through such turgid rubbish? There's a whole young generation of youngsters going to become alienated from this football club, because of the way the owner runs it. How sad is that? For me, it's the fear that he follows his mates at school and decides to support Chelsea, Man City etc. In the hugely unlikely event we find success then I wouldn't welcome him back if he'd changed from a traditional glory team to us. My view is that you've got to endure the hardships to enjoy the success should it ever come. You are wrong - at one time I would have agreed with you but the club has alienated its fans, abused their trust and cynically taken their money and 'invested' it on lousy and uncaring players ; your son has every right to choose where, and on what, he spends his money and I wouldn't blame him for a SECOND for supporting a better-run club OR for going back to watch NUFC IF - and its a big IF - they ever improved as a club. People have accepted second-best for far too long at NUFC and its beyond time that the club was brought to account by the vast majority withholding their support and money until they make a REAL effort to satisfy their customers...and that is what fans are. Claiming to be the best fans in the world because they turn up to watch rubbish and have the p--s taken out of them is just out-dated and stupid...as well as playing into Ashley's hands. My son has virtually given up in the club, he is now 37 and I first took him when he was 5 - I don't blame him ONE bit and hope he doesn't take my grandson until Ashley has gone and a better owner in charge.

If ever a team - and club - deserved relegation, it was that shower yesterday. If you thought watching the comedy at Norwich was bad, this should have really surprised you. I can't think of ONE outfield player who would have got NEAR to the 1992/93 PROMOTION side, let alone the teams that came after....would you have Mitro instead of David Kelly, Perez instead of Andy Cole, Wijnaldum instead of Gavin Peacock, etc etc... In fact, when you add up the financial cost of this current side, they HAVE to be the worst NUFC side to figure in a top division when it comes to value for money. Courage - ZILCH Will to win - ZILCH Ability - Find it if you can The game was a total embarrassment to the name of the club, the region and anyone associated with both. The only people who are getting shown up for what they are - apart from this crap bunch of so-called footballers - are the laughably-named 'Board', including the even more ludicrous CE and of course, the man at the top who keeps trying to avoid the buck which is inevitably, and deservedly, being passed in his direction. How ANYONE thinks this team - or any major part of it - can make a challenge for promotion next season is way beyond my comprehension - nothing less than a total clear-out, including the board-room and Academy, will start to address the malaise that NUFC has fallen into, and I really fear for the future of the club now because it is hard to see any way there is a will to put things right. I would love to hear Rafa's REAL thoughts on both the set-up and the playing staff - it would be worth paying money to hear... The club is finished for the foreseeable future and you cannot see this shower getting another win this season.

How this guy has survived at the club so long when his injury record and lousy defensive play stand out like a sore thumb is a complete mystery to me...he rivals Shola in that respect. Hopefully cleared out in summer and was a total disaster for the club yesterday.

People said similar about Hughton. You know as well as I do that coaching has only been part of the problem. What do we actually know about Cathro that makes people think he'd be a suitable candidate to manage in the championship? I literally know nothing about him other than he was rated as an understudy at some club in Spain. Since he's been here I've only ever seen him sitting in the dugout looking slightly confused. Like he doesn't know how the f*** he ended up here. I thought exactly the same thing...

Unless there is a complete overhaul at the club, including at board level and owner attitude, we have NO chance of promotion next season, certainly not with many of these players on the books. There is a culture of failure and uncaring apathy in both the dressing room and board room - this is spreading to a large percentage of supporters who are accepting of failure and this can only mean continued mediocrity which may in fact lead to further falls in the club's status. This thread is totally pointless until we see who owns the club next season, who runs it at the top, who the Chief Scout is and who the manager and players are.

It will be at least another year before Ashley thinks of selling in my view - he will hang on in the forlorn hope that the club comes straight back up(not a cat in hell's chance with this load of losers)and then the harsh reality of the money he is losing will begin to hit home...esp as crowds will be less than 35,000 if we struggle in the Championship. His morons in the board room never took the precaution of inserting relegation clauses in players' contracts, so they will have to be paid their going rate. Nobody in their right minds is going to buy most of these donkeys so he will be stuck with it - he is pig-headed enough to keep Charnley and Carr on too.. This topic will still be under discussion this time next year.

Minimum of a 2 goal defeat..probably a 3-1 result to Saints. They are a far better side and have a good attitude to these type of games.

Yes, in our case it is Ashley to blame but the general point I made still stands - it costs a fortune to attend PL clubs regularly these days, at least if you follow a SUCCESSFUL one...if you live in an area of low wages and poor job opportunities you have little spare to spend on football STs - just look at some of the ST prices in the PL compared to ours and you will see that the only way we have been able to keep high attendances under Ashley is because he sells tickets BELOW the standard rate. If you look at the price of our STs back in the 90s, they were much higher percentage-wise than they are now in comparison to cost of living/wages ; we could charge more then because we had a better product that people were prepared to spend quite a bit of their disposable income to see - now we haven't and we have NO waiting list for STs... Just pure financial common sense. We we flying high under SJH and Keegan in the 90s then again under SBR in the early 00s stadiums were packed out. It's got nowt to do with living in a poorer area. Liverpool is a poor region of the country but always want to be successful. Nufc as well as SAFC have both been grosly mismanaged. Ashley cracks out cheap ticks as the product on show is f***ing dismal. It HAS got to do with the product being offered - you ignored that fact. We had sell-outs(and a waiting list for STs)in the 90s because we had a very good set-up on and off the field....now we don't and even you must admit that the northern regions of the country have declined in the 20 years since...take Swan Hunter, closed in 1993 as just one example. As for Liverpool, they draw their support far more widely in the UK and overseas than we do because they were once very successful, and in recent memory too. We have won NOWT for nearly 50 years, man.

There are quite often 'sweeteners' used by the selling club in transfers...these could be used to line various people's pockets(I will leave you to work out whose at NUFC would benefit...!!)and lets face it, the signing of these 2 seems to be an ideal example of a likely case. Non-entities who add nothing to the squad's likelihood of survival or improvement and we are likely to see both gone at the end of the season. When NUFC signed Marcelino from Mallorca, the fee was quoted as being 10m....sources close to Mallorca later claimed in the media that the REAL fee was around 6m.....who got the rest....?

Yes, in our case it is Ashley to blame but the general point I made still stands - it costs a fortune to attend PL clubs regularly these days, at least if you follow a SUCCESSFUL one...if you live in an area of low wages and poor job opportunities you have little spare to spend on football STs - just look at some of the ST prices in the PL compared to ours and you will see that the only way we have been able to keep high attendances under Ashley is because he sells tickets BELOW the standard rate. If you look at the price of our STs back in the 90s, they were much higher percentage-wise than they are now in comparison to cost of living/wages ; we could charge more then because we had a better product that people were prepared to spend quite a bit of their disposable income to see - now we haven't and we have NO waiting list for STs... Just pure financial common sense.

There is a basic problem with this thread - it uses the word 'planning'... People should know by now that this word is not used at SJP apart from when they are deciding if a possible target is going to make them a profit when sold on, and when composing deceiving E-Mails to send to gullible idiots who still think the club is deserving of a PL place...or has a future. The only thing you can be sure of is that players like Wijnaldum and Sissoko will be off as fast as their expensive cars can take them to con other employers, and anyone who is on more than a grand a week will be toted around to try to get rid.. The club will be relying on its Academy system to provide players for the Championship...Oh, wait.....