Happy Face

How exactly? Because it exists and has not been paid off? Ashley has taken the sting out of it by converting it in to interest free loans to him, but the debt still exists. When Ashley bought the club the debts we had didn't vanish. Quayside points out that Ashley is now in for £300m. £134m for the club suggests he's now forked out £166m on debt/further investment. NUFC-finances says he took over a club where Shepherd had built £70m of debt. This suggests that Ashley is the one to have built up a further £96m of debt in just 3 years. £26m more than Shepherd managed in 10 years. And that's without paying any interest payments or any dividends and all he's gained by spending much more than Shepherd is relegation. But Shepherd is the one who's bust us? Aye, right! I'm not vindicating Ashley at all, I was getting at the fact that we were already in a large amount of debt before Ashley got here. If Ashley has blown £96m in 3 years, what has he spent that on? where has that money gone? The club was losing £30m a year when he took over. So if he'd just maintained Shepherd's level of incompetence, we'd only be £90m down. He'd have cut those losses massively cutting the wage bill as he has, if only he hadn't gone too far and ended up getting us relegated.

I know. Growing the debt from £70m to £166m has saved us from doing a Portsmouth.

How exactly? Because it exists and has not been paid off? Ashley has taken the sting out of it by converting it in to interest free loans to him, but the debt still exists. When Ashley bought the club the debts we had didn't vanish. Quayside points out that Ashley is now in for £300m. £134m for the club suggests he's now forked out £166m on debt/further investment. NUFC-finances says he took over a club where Shepherd had built £70m of debt. This suggests that Ashley is the one to have built up a further £96m of debt in just 3 years. £26m more than Shepherd managed in 10 years. And that's without paying any interest payments or any dividends and all he's gained by spending much more than Shepherd is relegation. But Shepherd is the one who's bust us? Aye, right!

Bad analogy mate. Have you looked at bank profits in the last couple of years?

It is broke but only since they introduced that wanky 'interfering with play' rule. No f***er knows what's going on, not even the referees. They should just revert back to the old system - if you're offside, you're offside. Whistle blows, freekick, everybody's happy. Old rule ain't that great, I remember refs ruling out long range goals because some random guy was offside inside the box. As they should, the random bloke is offside. If a random bloke decks one of your defenders off the ball before a shot goes in should the goal be allowed? There's an art to defending which includes knowing when someone is offside and stepping out. That has been ruined by selective application of the law which says you can only step out on the man that receives the ball eventually....how the fuck are you supposed to know that in advance of the ball being played?

They've broken the best sport in the world with all this shite about giving the striker the advantage, players not interfering with play and only giving offside when you touch the ball. It's all horseshit, just revert to the clear rule as it stood.

There does? Agree with the second line like. I get a lot of ambivalence towards Ashley on here. Even a feeling of better the devil you know. None of which were afforded Shepherd (except by NE5). Shepherd wasn't spending his own money, he was putting the club into deeper and deeper debt. It's one thing to do that if you are Man U and winning things, it's a problem if the investment isn't reflected in the results. True dat. But then nor is Ashley, not 100%, if he is putting £20m a season in, then it's only one third of what the fans are putting in.....the fans Llambias says are being unreasonable.

There does? Agree with the second line like. I get a lot of ambivalence towards Ashley on here. Even a feeling of better the devil you know. None of which were afforded Shepherd (except by NE5).

Stat attack!

Probably aimed at the more dedicated support tbh

Nolan and taylor weren't really the answer to our troubles, having sold Given and Nzogbia to turn a profit we really could have done with a bit of pace to secure the 1 point extra needed to survive. It's funny because he arrived and spent massively when we should have been cutting back, then in the window before relegation he changed his policy to spend nothing when a little investment would have been massively cost effective long term. I get the impression that his refusal to spend now only coincidentally matches up with being the right thing to do at this time. When we reach a window where real investment is needed again, I'm certain he'll get it wrong again. Also, I don't think Shepherd actually invested in '92 did he?, I thought it was all bank loans that he and the Halls were liable for if it went tits up. Not sure about that. We didn't really spend massively in the transfer market in summer 2007, although there was a hike in wages. We may have had a net transfer spend of between £5 million and £10 million (after selling Parker, Dyer) but at that stage, having done no due diligence, I don't think Ashley had the first idea of the economics of the business he'd just bought and he simply went where Fat Sam led him. Yeah, £10m down in that first window, but then once he bought Colo he was £20m in the hole. Even though he almost immediately recouped half of that from Milner etc. He remained £16m out of pocket until Zoggy and Given were shipped out. http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3374/ashleytransfers.jpg If it took him 15 or 16 months to work out his balance sheet (long after Mort had finished the transition) then he really screwed up.

So has anyone got cheaper? I'm deliberatley misrepresenting the situation to make out they've screwed me . I think L7 corner seats were £380 a season and I got mine for £350 a season by paying it all up front. I don't think anyone committing to 3 years by Direct Debit has saved anything though.

Hang on. So I paid for 3 years in advance to guarantee the lowest price....and every fucker's got it. Bastards.

Not commenting? In the op The headline man, even the new one is just taking the most negative spin possible, and well you know it. How about that?

Nope. Fred wasn't an idiot. The facts on that beg to differ! Whatever criticism you have of Fred (and plenty is justified), no way was he an idiot. He helped make a massive success of a club about to drop into the third tier. [/NE5] FYP. There seems to be a lot of anti-Shepherd/pro-Ashley people and a few pro-Shepherd/anti-Ashley people and it's always a case of comparing one to the other. We need consensus agreement that they've both done some good and some bad, but overall they're a set of c***s. There are quite a few people who have been saying just that for some time tbh. You're right. Not an unreasonable minority either.

Nolan and taylor weren't really the answer to our troubles, having sold Given and Nzogbia to turn a profit we really could have done with a bit of pace to secure the 1 point extra needed to survive. It's funny because he arrived and spent massively when we should have been cutting back, then in the window before relegation he changed his policy to spend nothing when a little investment would have been massively cost effective long term. I get the impression that his refusal to spend now only coincidentally matches up with being the right thing to do at this time. When we reach a window where real investment is needed again, I'm certain he'll get it wrong again. Also, I don't think Shepherd actually invested in '92 did he?, I thought it was all bank loans that he and the Halls were liable for if it went tits up.

Great move. Kudos.

Not commenting? In the op

I've been more commited to clapped out bangers with 6 months left on the MOT.

Nope. Fred wasn't an idiot. The facts on that beg to differ! Whatever criticism you have of Fred (and plenty is justified), no way was he an idiot. He helped make a massive success of a club about to drop into the third tier. [/NE5] FYP. There seems to be a lot of anti-Shepherd/pro-Ashley people and a few pro-Shepherd/anti-Ashley people and it's always a case of comparing one to the other. We need consensus agreement that they've both done some good and some bad, but overall they're a set of cunts.

Not entirley true, given the amount of money he had to put in toward's the debt, which was built up by the previous chairman/board. While a lot of that is his own fault for not carrying out due diligence before buying the club, perhaps if he hadn't had to plough as much in towards the debt, then he may have been prepared to spend more on the playing side. But should he be expected to run/fund the club and keep buying players out of his own 'deep pockets'? That's exactly what you accept when you buy 100% of a football club.....unless you can run it such that revenue covers costs...which he (like Shepherd) has not been able to do.

Fuck off, Derek. Sorry, but as much as I don't like Llambias, I also think that the thread title is misleading. He hardly said that anyone that criticizes him/Ashley is unreasonable. Gladly changed. Who DID he mean was unreasonable? My interpretation was that he thinks there are a minority of fans that are unreasonable in their criticism, and that nothing they do will be acceptable. I just didn't see it as him implying that everyone that critisizes them is unreasonable. As long as we agree the majority that sing "get out of our club you fat cockney bastard" are the more reasonable ones.

Fuck off, Derek. Sorry, but as much as I don't like Llambias, I also think that the thread title is misleading. He hardly said that anyone that criticizes him/Ashley is unreasonable. Gladly changed. Who DID he mean was unreasonable?

Liam Liam Liam O Mauls Happy Face

Nope. Fred wasn't an idiot. The facts on that beg to differ! Whatever criticism you have of Fred (and plenty is justified), no way was he an idiot. He helped make a massive success of a club about to drop into the third tier.