Happy Face

I thought if you were commenting on the atmosphere at games and the sentiments towards Ashley then you'd be someone that was going to games. Talking to people in the pubs afterwards and that. Not a soopafan dig or owt, bu you've got no basis for asking question 6. Well,let me tell you this. Living on the other side of the world doesnt make me any less of a fan than those who have season tickets to SJP. That comment is just blatantly ridiculous. In fact, I probably get to see more NUFC games televised here than you do over in the UK. You might want to remember that there are many other fans on this forum who are in the same situation as me and probably wouldnt take your comments lightly. You might like to know that I have had a heavy involvement with NUFC matters for many years and have plenty of contacts through the club over those years. Most of your replies to my questions were quite interesting and whilst I agree with some and disagree with most, this is a forum of opinions for world wide supporters of the club and you should be wary of making comments regarding other fans opinions, even if they do live far away. With regard to question 6, I think the majority of posters on this forum will readily admit that protests against Ashley have diminished over time at games, whether they like it or not. Furthermore, I cannot think of a single fan whom isnt pleased, surprised and elated that after a difficult period, Newcastle United are currently top of the CCC. I would say that you are certainly in the minority. I never for one second suggested it made you any less of a fan. I'm just saying people in and around the stadium have a clearer picture of what the feeling is toward Ashley in and around the stadium. I don't see how that could be at all contentious. nothing to get defensive about. There's not been any 'protests' since the Hull game last seasonff. I don't agree that there's been any diminishment in the hatred of Ashley since the opening game against West Brom. Your last sentence is absurd. Yoiu could as easily say I cannot think of a single rape victim whom isnt pleased, surprised and elated that after being visciously raped, they are still alive.

You think we never take to southerners? What about Rob Lee or David Kelly or Kevin Keegan or Hughton, who's name we've sang to the heaven's? It's not that we don't trust southerners, more that we don't tolerate complete ineptitude wherever it originates.

"unbelievable"

I thought if you were commenting on the atmosphere at games and the sentiments towards Ashley then you'd be someone that was going to games. Talking to people in the pubs afterwards and that. Not a soopafan dig or owt, bu you've got no basis for asking question 6.

"On a large enough time line, the survival rate for everyone will drop to zero." You could argue Plymouth are 'going in the right direction' in the shortest term just because they won their last game, but we all know they're still shit and will be relegated. It's all about timescales. The timescale used for the purpose of the thread is since Mike Ashley arrived. And in that time he's halved the turnover at the club, doubled the debt and dropped a league. I don't see how there can be any debate either on the pitch or off that we're worse off. Which obviously is not what the original question was asking. There was no question in the opening post. Just some drivel saying you'd be surprised to find that he IS taking us in the right direction. I certainly was surprised to hear it, as it's not true for the reason I've stated above.

"On a large enough time line, the survival rate for everyone will drop to zero." You could argue Plymouth are 'going in the right direction' in the shortest term just because they won their last game, but we all know they're still shit and will be relegated. It's all about timescales. The timescale used for the purpose of the thread is since Mike Ashley arrived. And in that time he's halved the turnover at the club, doubled the debt and dropped a league. I don't see how there can be any debate either on the pitch or off that we're worse off.

It's a bit harsh to beat a manager with the stick of one season which didn't go too well at Blackburn Rovers. Aye, he took them up to a 6th place finish in his first season. Had had some bad injury problems when he got sacked the following December too. He spunked money an absloutes shite ffs That too..but look at some of the shite Robson bought. Carl Cort ffs.

It's a bit harsh to beat a manager with the stick of one season which didn't go too well at Blackburn Rovers. Aye, he took them up to a 6th place finish in his first season. Had had some bad injury problems when he got sacked the following December too.

I'm vehemently opposed to Ashley, but I've given him credit for lots of stuff...some in this thread. To argue otherwise would be to lose any credibility. Llambias loses all credibility when he's in the paper slagging off fans that criticise his many mistakes and insisting Ashley has been a godsend. Roman has cancelled all the loans at Chelsea (or turned the debt into equity, whatever you want to call it). So have the Man City owners. And Sunderland. If Ashley did that it would be another good move I'd give him credit for. As would I. He'd have to be absolutely mental to do it at present though, wouldn't you agree? I'm not sure why. Am I being dense? When would be a better time? It would convince an AWFUL lot more people that he might actually be good for the club, is ensuring it's financial stability and push a few more season tickets/shirts etc. If we didn't get promoted (which looks less likely by the week obviously) he'd be at risk of losing the lot if he converted it to equity & administration became the only option, same with if we go up & come straight back down (although obviously the ball's in his court to address that risk in the summer). Even at Chelsea the debt wasn't cleared straight away until they'd firmly established their continued revenue streams from Champions League football and top 4 finishes. I also know what you mean about supporters being convinced if he converted it all to equity, but at the same time there'd still be those who would say he had only done it to make it easier to sell, when in reality it makes little difference at all. Aye, without paying interest it makes no odds on the balance sheet. I understand your argument, I was just thinking he says he was willing to forego the loans if he was offered £80m anyway.

Shame Fulham’s debt was last estimated at £150 million. No way to run a club. They'll have to cut costs or face doing a Portsmouth no doubt.

I'm vehemently opposed to Ashley, but I've given him credit for lots of stuff...some in this thread. To argue otherwise would be to lose any credibility. Llambias loses all credibility when he's in the paper slagging off fans that criticise his many mistakes and insisting Ashley has been a godsend. Roman has cancelled all the loans at Chelsea (or turned the debt into equity, whatever you want to call it). So have the Man City owners. And Sunderland. If Ashley did that it would be another good move I'd give him credit for. As would I. He'd have to be absolutely mental to do it at present though, wouldn't you agree? I'm not sure why. Am I being dense? When would be a better time? It would convince an AWFUL lot more people that he might actually be good for the club, is ensuring it's financial stability and push a few more season tickets/shirts etc.

It didn't matter who got the job if Wise was the one in charge did it?

I'm vehemently opposed to Ashley, but I've given him credit for lots of stuff...some in this thread. To argue otherwise would be to lose any credibility. Llambias loses all credibility when he's in the paper slagging off fans that criticise his many mistakes and insisting Ashley has been a godsend. Roman has cancelled all the loans at Chelsea (or turned the debt into equity, whatever you want to call it). So have the Man City owners. And Sunderland. If Ashley did that it would be another good move I'd give him credit for.

Aye, Hodgson would have got the best out of Gonzalez.

he had a chance to rectify his mistakes when he appointed KK again but didn't support him. I imagine quite a lot of people have supported Newcastle for many years, watch them every game home and away, and aren't about to stop So what mistakes had he made before appointing Keegan? what planet do you come from ? So you can't think of any, then? malandro listed some. Paying big wages and moaning about it later too. What do you think of him losing KK and what do you think of the quality of our recent signings, on long contracts Ashley's first big mistake was appointing Keegan manager. Recent signings weren't bad at all, given the circs, and none of them are on particularly long contracts. Allows them a chance in the PL, with a two years left on the contract if we want to sell them on at that point. No, Ashleys mistake was not in appointing Keegan, but in the shameful, deceitful way he treated him. How can anyone trust him or believe a word he says after that? I'd say Keegan was the one who it's difficult to trust. It's interesting that there doesn't seem to have been a stampede for his managerial services, since he left. Legendary player and great manager but I agree just a bit too "sugary sweet nice" to fully trust. Always loved wooing the masses with his emotional England/Scouser/Geordie thing but ultimately proved that like the rest of them he was only in it for himself and the money. Keegan walked away with less than Allardyce or Souness. Of course he wanted the money but he took the club to arbitration (and won) to clear his name of ridiculous notions like those you and Cronky perpetuate despite the facts. Sorry for yawning when I read this. Why don't you just assasinate Ashley or something and give us all a rest. Just stating the facts. I find it incredible people are able to ignore them.

he had a chance to rectify his mistakes when he appointed KK again but didn't support him. I imagine quite a lot of people have supported Newcastle for many years, watch them every game home and away, and aren't about to stop So what mistakes had he made before appointing Keegan? what planet do you come from ? So you can't think of any, then? malandro listed some. Paying big wages and moaning about it later too. What do you think of him losing KK and what do you think of the quality of our recent signings, on long contracts Ashley's first big mistake was appointing Keegan manager. Recent signings weren't bad at all, given the circs, and none of them are on particularly long contracts. Allows them a chance in the PL, with a two years left on the contract if we want to sell them on at that point. No, Ashleys mistake was not in appointing Keegan, but in the shameful, deceitful way he treated him. How can anyone trust him or believe a word he says after that? I'd say Keegan was the one who it's difficult to trust. It's interesting that there doesn't seem to have been a stampede for his managerial services, since he left. Legendary player and great manager but I agree just a bit too "sugary sweet nice" to fully trust. Always loved wooing the masses with his emotional England/Scouser/Geordie thing but ultimately proved that like the rest of them he was only in it for himself and the money. Keegan walked away with less than Allardyce or Souness. Of course he wanted the money but he took the club to arbitration (and won) to clear his name of ridiculous notions like those you and Cronky perpetuate despite the facts.

he had a chance to rectify his mistakes when he appointed KK again but didn't support him. I imagine quite a lot of people have supported Newcastle for many years, watch them every game home and away, and aren't about to stop So what mistakes had he made before appointing Keegan? what planet do you come from ? So you can't think of any, then? malandro listed some. Paying big wages and moaning about it later too. What do you think of him losing KK and what do you think of the quality of our recent signings, on long contracts Ashley's first big mistake was appointing Keegan manager. Recent signings weren't bad at all, given the circs, and none of them are on particularly long contracts. Allows them a chance in the PL, with a two years left on the contract if we want to sell them on at that point. No, Ashleys mistake was not in appointing Keegan, but in the shameful, deceitful way he treated him. How can anyone trust him or believe a word he says after that? I'd say Keegan was the one who it's difficult to trust. It's interesting that there doesn't seem to have been a stampede for his managerial services, since he left. Read THE PREMIER LEAGUE MANAGER'S ARBITRATION TRIBUNAL report... http://videos.icnetwork.co.uk/nejournal/kevinkeegan.pdf

he had a chance to rectify his mistakes when he appointed KK again but didn't support him. I imagine quite a lot of people have supported Newcastle for many years, watch them every game home and away, and aren't about to stop So what mistakes had he made before appointing Keegan? what planet do you come from ? So you can't think of any, then? malandro listed some. Paying big wages and moaning about it later too. What do you think of him losing KK and what do you think of the quality of our recent signings, on long contracts Ashley's first big mistake was appointing Keegan manager. Recent signings weren't bad at all, given the circs, and none of them are on particularly long contracts. Allows them a chance in the PL, with a two years left on the contract if we want to sell them on at that point. If someone will buy them. Do you know how long their contracts are ? http://www.nufc.com/2009-10html/squad.html Fraser Forster is the only player at the club contracted for over 3 more years.

If you're going to state the facts, less florid, opinionated language is probably called for. They speak for themselves.... 1. Ashley purchased the club without conducting due diligence. 2. The purchase meant all outstanding loans (£70m) were payable instantly. 3. Ashley loaned the club the money to do this at zero interest. 4. He has extended those loans since. 5. He claims the loans now exceed £146m. 6. He hired Keegan and misled him as to what his duties would be. 7. Whatever money was available Ashley entrusted to Wise ahead of Keegan. 8. He removed Keegan and appointed Kinnear, Hughton and Shearer in a single season. Again, You mean apart from the court case where he admitted he's a liar, the fraud investigation, the naked streaking across the pitch, the BBC program about unethical business practices, the disastarous announcement that the stadium would be renamed and frequently appearing in the media to congratulate themselves on the job they've done while insulting 'unrealistic' fans. I don't call that quietly going about business. What do you perceive to be living within our means? Ashley paying in £20m a year as he said he'd always planned or the club turning a profit off it's own back. What would you do with that profit? Pay off loans or reinvest it in the squad?

"For that" I said. Not for everything. I'll be glad to cede the point if you show me the substantial outgoings that remain as a shepherd legacy. Or the additional income Ashley has generated that Shepherd failed to. Didn't Ashley pay off the 80m debt legacy that Shepherd left? It might still be outstanding but it's saved around £6m a year interest hasn't it? Yes. Some would call that was a sensible decision he deserves credit for. Others would point out that all loans were repayable the moment the club changed hands and he had no choice in the matter. He could be charging interest on the loans like other owners though, and I've always given him credit for not doing thatthat. All of that reinforces the original point though, because that's one of the outgoings we had under Shepherd that we don't have anymore, but "outgoings are still disproportionate to our income" under Ashley despite Shepherd's influence being wiped out.

"For that" I said. Not for everything. I'll be glad to cede the point if you show me the substantial outgoings that remain as a shepherd legacy. Or the additional income Ashley has generated that Shepherd failed to.

they will have to be shrewd if the reported wage levels are anything to go by, do you think the recent signings are good enough for the premiership, do you know the length of their contracts ? Bob, we wont actually know until we see the likes of Routledge, Williamson etc play in the EPL. What I will say is that the likes of Dann, Johnson at Birmingham, Lescott at City, Baines at Everton and quite a few others, have come from lower divisions and done well in the PL so it is not beyond the realm of mpossibility that our signings will also succeed. Furthermore, if you look at the teams near the bottom of the PL, I dont think any of them are that much better than us, if at all. Also, there are plenty of good quality players around who would more than likely jump at the chance of coming to NUFC at realistic prices and whilst most peoplke on here would like to see Arsenal type football played, realism says that workmanlike performances are the order of the day under Hughton and that hasnt done the likes of Birmingham, Villa, Everton any harm this season at all. Maybe we can see a sim ilar response next season. I've seen these players, I'm not going to watch the smoggies or anybody else, as you are telling people to do, but I don't think they are as good as the players he has sold. What do you think of them ? You are probably right there, to a certain extent. However, the players who left, no doubt, with the undoubted skill they had, failed miserably to mput that skill to good use for the club. Ask yourself, how many have suceeded since they moved! Given, Milner are the only ones I can think of. Viduka retired, Owen spent most of the season benched as did Beye, Martins at Wolfsburg? What has he done there? Even Edgar at Burnley cant get a game there. So, as for their undoubted skill, yes, they were skillful but only when they felt like it which wasnt very bloody often, was it? The players coming in have substantially less salaries, points to prove and who knows yet, maybe huge successes in the PL. I would much rather be top of the CCC at the moment than bottom of the PL. Your comment about managers was very relevant and certainly a major mistake by Ashley last year, which so far, he has learned in his backing of Hughton. I actually think CH will do well next year and believe he deserves a great deal of credit for this season's success. Ashley put his faith in him and he has rewarded that faith, so far. Lets look ahead and not back. I don't think Hughton will do well, especially with one hand tied behind his back and being forced to buy cheap players. Ashley lost his best chance of succeeding when he lost Keegan, he then had a chance to rectify it by backing and appointing Shearer, if only to unite everybody in the short term, but he blew that as well. He had the support of supporters at first but he has lost it himself. Take your point if you mean uniting the fans in the short term, but we don't know whether all the players would have united under Shearer. Ashley has made many mistakes but I can't see a scrap of evidence that rejecting Shearer was one of them. Listening to the anti Ashley chanting at games and feeling, it will take a lot to change that. Doesn't address what I said. What evidence is there that rejecting Shearer was a mistake? The fans have certainly had a bit of a chant about Ashley but does that mean rejecting Shearer was a mistake? Fans shout about a lot of things. There was a lot of moaning about Caroll and Jonas (and others) earlier in the season, so does that prove that Hughton sticking by them was a mistake? don't you think the anti-Ashley feeling would have stopped if Shearer had been appointed ? Why do you care so much that people don't like or trust Ashley anyway. Fans hating their chairmen/owners is part and parcel of the game. It's true at the vast majority of clubs, even the succesful ones like Man U and Liverpool.

Again, Ashley is entirely to blame for that. And again, you keep insisting we should suck cockney cock because he's not sold (or failed to renew) any more players than Given, Nzogbia, Martins, Owen, Viduka, Duff, Beye, Bassong and Geremi. Like being grateful to your lass for only shagging 9 other men. And again show me the evidence any clubs were actually interested in paying even a proportion of the wages of Smith, Barton, Butt, Colo, Taylor, Ameobi or anyone else and that Ashley knocked them back. And I'm not even saying it was wrong to sell the players he has. I just don't think for one second the selling stopped for football reasons.