Happy Face

Are you on drugs? Turnover - £27m less wages - £21m is £6m Do you lie in a world where football clubs dont pay any other costs? WBA would have made a P&L loss without the profit on player transfers. For some reason their accounts don't include a cash flow but it looks like their cash usage was close to neutral over the 12 months. But as you said in an earlier post comparisons with us and WBA aren't too relevant. Yeah i got that, just wondering why Happy seems to think football clubs only pay out wages and nothing else I'd not done the sums and took the bottom line figures I read. I was wrong to claim a £6m profit before player trading. Can you find it in your heart to forgive me? I can't promise i won't make a mistake like this in future, maybe this is why I identify with the NUST so much.

Are you on drugs? Turnover - £27m less wages - £21m is £6m Do you lie in a world where football clubs dont pay any other costs? WBA would have made a P&L loss without the profit on player transfers. For some reason their accounts don't include a cash flow but it looks like their cash usage was close to neutral over the 12 months. But as you said in an earlier post comparisons with us and WBA aren't too relevant. I was more interested in the kind of money we can expect in the Championship when mentioning them. It was more of a contrast than a compare. They got £14m tv money, it's safe to say we'll be getting more than that this year. They got £2.2m in merchandise, it's safe to say we'll be getting more than that this year. They got £4m other commercial income, it's safe to say we'll be getting more than that this year. They got £7m gate + matchday, 43,000 paying £20 each over 23 games is £19.8m before pies or pints. So where they earned £27.2m in the championship, it's unclear what we've earned but it's safe to say it's clearly in excess of £40m. Llambias said it was £50m. They spent £22m on wages (80%), we're spending £35m on wages (70%)

Are you on drugs? Turnover - £27m less wages - £21m is £6m Do you lie in a world where football clubs dont pay any other costs? You best write to the Guardian. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jun/03/english-premier-league-debt Their reporters are clearly drugged up.

Who says he did?

I cant see any way we're making profit this year reduced income wages while lower still are a huge percentage of our current income etc.

If buying players only affects the P&L over time (ie spend over the period of the contract), surely the same is the case for selling players? Profits/losses on player sales are shown in the year the player is sold. Example: Player is bought for £8 million on a 4 year contract. The P&L is charged (amortisation) £2 million every year of the contract. If however the player is sold after 2 years for £6 million then the P&L will show a profit that year of £2 million - being £6 million less the written down value of the player of £4 million(8-4). Edit: Just for clarification - once the player has been sold no further charges are made to the P&L and the player disappears from the club accounts. So given what we paid for the players sold in the last 5 months, shouldn't the profit on players in the last 5 months be hefty? Genuine question.... Bassong is bought for £0 on a 4 year contract. The P&L is charged (amortisation) £0 million every year of the contract. However the player is sold after 1 year for £8 million then the P&L will show a profit that year of £8 million - being £8 million more the marked up value of the player of £8 million(8-0). and the other players were Martins Beye and Duff who's combined profit/loss is dwarfed by the size of the bassong deal. Similarly large profits would have been realised on Given, Nzogbia and Milner recently too if I understand you right. No? Yes - Martins will have a decent profit on him btw as we had owned him for a while so his value will have been relatively small. We should see the proft for Given, N Zog and Milner in these accounts, Bassong et al next year. You will see two numbers in the accounts. Profit/Loss before player trading (which will exclude these sales) Profit/Loss (which includes them) You want the profit in the first one to be a high proportion of the second one, otherwise it shows that on a day to day basis we are in the shit! So whoever brought up transfers in the comparison with WBA, it was a red herring. Whatever they bought or sold given the headline prices, their actual transfer frofit for that year worked out at a few million that takes what seems to be a £6m profit up to an £11m profit. Similarly we can only profit from the transfers out, and given the deals struck for Bassong and Martins it should compare favourably.

If buying players only affects the P&L over time (ie spend over the period of the contract), surely the same is the case for selling players? Profits/losses on player sales are shown in the year the player is sold. Example: Player is bought for £8 million on a 4 year contract. The P&L is charged (amortisation) £2 million every year of the contract. If however the player is sold after 2 years for £6 million then the P&L will show a profit that year of £2 million - being £6 million less the written down value of the player of £4 million(8-4). Edit: Just for clarification - once the player has been sold no further charges are made to the P&L and the player disappears from the club accounts. So given what we paid for the players sold in the last 5 months, shouldn't the profit on players in the last 5 months be hefty? Genuine question.... Bassong is bought for £0 on a 4 year contract. The P&L is charged (amortisation) £0 million every year of the contract. However the player is sold after 1 year for £8 million then the P&L will show a profit that year of £8 million - being £8 million more the marked up value of the player of £8 million(8-0). and the other players were Martins Beye and Duff who's combined profit/loss is dwarfed by the size of the bassong deal. Similarly large profits would have been realised on Given, Nzogbia and Milner recently too if I understand you right. No? I've got a feeling that you're thinking along the lines of highlighting this "profit" as reasons against Ashley when the accounts are released, non? Not particularly. The only thing I slag Ashley off for is lying. I'm only posting in here because people are saying it's ridiculous to think for a moment that the club could currently be making money and I still can't see how it isn't (at least before profit is used to satisfy the debt to Ashley). That's not to say Ashley has taken out more than he's put in or that if he were to sell at the moment he would walk off with a profit.

If buying players only affects the P&L over time (ie spend over the period of the contract), surely the same is the case for selling players? Profits/losses on player sales are shown in the year the player is sold. Example: Player is bought for £8 million on a 4 year contract. The P&L is charged (amortisation) £2 million every year of the contract. If however the player is sold after 2 years for £6 million then the P&L will show a profit that year of £2 million - being £6 million less the written down value of the player of £4 million(8-4). Edit: Just for clarification - once the player has been sold no further charges are made to the P&L and the player disappears from the club accounts. So given what we paid for the players sold in the last 5 months, shouldn't the profit on players in the last 5 months be hefty? Genuine question.... Bassong is bought for £0 on a 4 year contract. The P&L is charged (amortisation) £0 million every year of the contract. However the player is sold after 1 year for £8 million then the P&L will show a profit that year of £8 million - being £8 million more the marked up value of the player of £8 million(8-0). and the other players were Martins Beye and Duff who's combined profit/loss is dwarfed by the size of the bassong deal. Similarly large profits would have been realised on Given, Nzogbia and Milner recently too if I understand you right. No?

Player sales? Yup they made an £18m profit on selling players. Koumas, Kamara, Ellington and Kuszczak left them that year for decent fees. They also spent £16m on players that year. http://www.soccerbase.com/transfers_by_team.sd?teamid=2744 We've spent zero. Buying players makes little difference on the profit/loss though. The cost is spread over the length of the contract, so £16m purhcases over (for example) an average of 4 years contract period would only put £4m into the accounts HF - it's things like this that make me wonder why you devote so much time in trying to analyse the club's accounts in some vain attempt to 'prove' that Ashley is making money from the club If buying players makes no difference on profit or loss it's rather quite annoying that Ashley won't buy any players. Er, you still need to have the finance in place to afford the transfer (whether it be cash, player exchange or credit). Your investigations into the club's finances will no doubt have illuminated the path to ruin that the good shepherd was leading us down before MA's intervention. Trying to make the club self-sufficient (for whatever intention), is that a crime? Not at all. People don't seem to think he has though.

Have our 2010 accounts arrived a year early like? No. Two separate issues. The season 2009/2010 will show a profit.....then i asked about last years books...which won't. This is the point I've been making for months. (link 1) (link 2) He doesn't WANT to sell man. Saying he does is how he justifies having a manager with no experience whatsoever and a transfer budget of zero. Its no less wrong now then it was then though. I'd be surprised if we can make any profit by the end of this year, never mind 30 odd million like you predicted (not to mention NUST's mental claims of £7m every month). We'll see. 50,000 crowds in the championship with premier league parachute payments and zero transfer budget and still no profit? It amazes me football can survive as the money drain you seem to think it is?

Player sales? Yup they made an £18m profit on selling players. Koumas, Kamara, Ellington and Kuszczak left them that year for decent fees. They also spent £16m on players that year. http://www.soccerbase.com/transfers_by_team.sd?teamid=2744 We've spent zero. Buying players makes little difference on the profit/loss though. The cost is spread over the length of the contract, so £16m purhcases over (for example) an average of 4 years contract period would only put £4m into the accounts HF - it's things like this that make me wonder why you devote so much time in trying to analyse the club's accounts in some vain attempt to 'prove' that Ashley is making money from the club If buying players makes no difference on profit or loss it's rather quite annoying that Ashley won't buy any players.

Irrespective of what figure the NUST are quoting and how they arrived at it, people seem to thingk there is no way that NUFC is a profitable enterprise. I'm only trying to show those people that the figures we know suggest it is at the moment.

Player sales? Yup they made an £18m profit on selling players. Koumas, Kamara, Ellington and Kuszczak left them that year for decent fees. They also spent £16m on players that year. http://www.soccerbase.com/transfers_by_team.sd?teamid=2744 We've spent zero.

Not as good as the SMB top Clarky wore.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jun/03/english-premier-league-debt I find the refusal to believe Newcastle could turn any kind of profit this season strange with double the gate, advertising, pies, pints and strips while having (apparently) only £8m more in wage bill and non of the debt. our wage bill is 40m a year by my guess and most certainly not less than 30m Ashley is quoted as saying he's brought the wage bill down to £35m. £13m more than West Brom. As i said in the post above. We make that up on gate receipts alone.

So considering they were still in debt after this its hardly a good set of figures as an example(not that the whole size/background differences ever made it a fair one) Yes, totally different economics involved tbh - for example the running costs of the Hawthorns wouldn't be close to those of SJP. Our wage bill will be higher, but I'm sure you're aware Ashley has cut two thirds of behind the scenes staff. You know those queues outside the game every week that don't clear until twenty past 3. Ashley has closed half the gates to ensure our running costs come down to the level of a club like West Brom. Also, we made more than West Brom in the transfer market. Martins, Bassong, Beye & Duff went for more than a combined total of £18m so that's another area we'd exceed their profits. Their £7m gate receipt will compare to avbout £20m plus from our 40,000+ average so there's another £13m.

West Brom turned a profit of almost £1m a month when they were last in the championship... http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jun/03/english-premier-league-debt I find the refusal to believe Newcastle could turn any kind of profit this season strange with double the gate, advertising, pies, pints and strips while having (apparently) only £8m more in wage bill and non of the debt.

Don't forget Keegan's payout, the mercenary bastard

This is the point I've been making for months. (link 1) (link 2) He doesn't WANT to sell man. Saying he does is how he justifies having a manager with no experience whatsoever and a transfer budget of zero.

And I was £13m over on the wages so it's more like £40m profit

Mind, I predicted a profit for Ashley this season back in October Anyway, aren't the 2009 accounts about due around now?

(2) would win by a country mile. On the whole the NUST have been organised, earnest and effective. This is clearly a mis-step but it's a long term, well backed campaign amongst fans and the media. Such clangers hurt them all the more having built up the level of momentum they have exactly because they're a far more well publicised and organised group than whoever knocked up the pamphlet on powerpoint that no-one outside of a couple of message boards has any clue about. The latest in a long line to be fair. And still they keep going. Like the previous mistakes, I'm sure this one will not lose them all credibility as so many seem eager to insist will be the case. Lots of impatient fans who insist on things being perfect immediately will hoy their toys out the pram and denigrate what has been the most succesful enlistment of fans into a single collective voice in my lifetime. But there are too many fans that realise if it falls apart it's a wasted opportunity that nobody else will feel compelled to try again because there are too many naysayers. The NUST is what everyone was crying out for for years so they won't call it a day because of one badly worded statement amongst many. See, while my opinion is that a takeover could well be an absolute disaster now (though with the right leadership the idea still excites me tbh ), I always supported the idea of of some seriously improved channels of communication with the club that all supporters can feel part of but. But right from the start this group started out with childish threats and insults, and still can't wipe the chips from their collective shoulders and move on from the playground politics. While I've continued to be cynical, I have been impressed by some of their achievements, and genuinely wanted them to demand respect and credibility (to keep making mistakes like this I can't help feeling (silly I know) reflects not only badly on themselves, but all of us who support the club), which is why shit like this is just so sodding irritating. It is. Whenever I speak to anyone in the NUST they're always passionate about encouraging as many people as possible to join and make their voice heard. It's unfortunate if the 'chip on your shoulder' effect sometimes comes across because, unfortunately, as non-members they're speaking for you. Don't even join up, just go to a roadshow and tell them what they're doing wrong. they're as receptive to criticism as they are encouragement. I'd be interested in doing that, where and when? Thu, 21 January, 19:30 – 23:00 Wallsend Labour Club & Institute, Camberley Road, Wallsend, NE28 0PN (map) (This is a fundraising event for Wallsend Boys club and costs £5 a ticket) Fri, 22 January, 19:30 – 23:00 The Alexandra Pub, Queen Alexandra Rd, North Shields NE29 9AL Otr there's always the toon talk radio show where someone from the NUST is always on.

(2) would win by a country mile. On the whole the NUST have been organised, earnest and effective. This is clearly a mis-step but it's a long term, well backed campaign amongst fans and the media. Such clangers hurt them all the more having built up the level of momentum they have exactly because they're a far more well publicised and organised group than whoever knocked up the pamphlet on powerpoint that no-one outside of a couple of message boards has any clue about. The latest in a long line to be fair. And still they keep going. Like the previous mistakes, I'm sure this one will not lose them all credibility as so many seem eager to insist will be the case. Lots of impatient fans who insist on things being perfect immediately will hoy their toys out the pram and denigrate what has been the most succesful enlistment of fans into a single collective voice in my lifetime. But there are too many fans that realise if it falls apart it's a wasted opportunity that nobody else will feel compelled to try again because there are too many naysayers. The NUST is what everyone was crying out for for years so they won't call it a day because of one badly worded statement amongst many. See, while my opinion is that a takeover could well be an absolute disaster now (though with the right leadership the idea still excites me tbh ), I always supported the idea of of some seriously improved channels of communication with the club that all supporters can feel part of but. But right from the start this group started out with childish threats and insults, and still can't wipe the chips from their collective shoulders and move on from the playground politics. While I've continued to be cynical, I have been impressed by some of their achievements, and genuinely wanted them to demand respect and credibility (to keep making mistakes like this I can't help feeling (silly I know) reflects not only badly on themselves, but all of us who support the club), which is why shit like this is just so sodding irritating. It is. Whenever I speak to anyone in the NUST they're always passionate about encouraging as many people as possible to join and make their voice heard. It's unfortunate if the 'chip on your shoulder' effect sometimes comes across because, unfortunately, even as non-members they're still speaking for you. Don't even join up, just go to a roadshow and tell them what they're doing wrong. they're as receptive to criticism as they are encouragement.

Whole heartedly agree....and numbers aren't helped by slagging off the NUST at every turn.

(2) would win by a country mile. On the whole the NUST have been organised, earnest and effective. This is clearly a mis-step but it's a long term, well backed campaign amongst fans and the media. Such clangers hurt them all the more having built up the level of momentum they have exactly because they're a far more well publicised and organised group than whoever knocked up the pamphlet on powerpoint that no-one outside of a couple of message boards has any clue about. Do they have your support still, and more importantly your money if they make a bid? I've paid my membership and pledged nothing else because i don't agree with making a bid to buy the club. They still have my unwavering support though. They're Newcastle fans. I'll say when i don't agree with something. i won't call the entire endeavour flawed and insist a stop be put to it. You'd have to be a mackem to do that. So if you don't agree (partly) with them you are a mackem? Well done, that'll get them in. I don't know where people get this opinion that the members are deluded and up their own arse from. I thought you were on board with them until this statement came out. We have a supporters trust growing faster than any in the country. I don't see how that can be a bad thing for the club whatever campaign is currently being run and i can't see why any Newcastle fan would prefer that endeavour to end. I was 50-50, its a nice idea like winning the lottery, i stand very little chance but i play it every week. Their campaign started rough, something out of shear frustration and passion and has slowly moulded in to something more reputable, good for them, though they stand no chance of making a bid never mind it getting accepted. TBF to them its shaping up better than the Manu fans against the Glazers, which was comical, but if the thing wrapped up tomorrow it would make the same amount of difference if it carried on until Ashley left the club and when it does happen they'll have no say in it whatsoever (unfortunately) The only time we effected Ashley as supporters is when we protested, he instantly listed the club and spat his dummy, and where you could say the sale of it and the mess began. I personally don't think calling people mackems for not supporting them or the idea is going to help the cause, especially a cause with so many flaws, and an idea which began so amateurish it was ridiculed by the majority of fans. Their image leaves a lot to be desired from the last lot of hiccups, while this one goes right back to the amateur roots of the start and with something we want addressing so clearly, the finances, it was the wrong subject to blindfully pin the tail on the donkey. I have no problem with any fan that doesn't want to join or support the NUST. I can understand why they don't want to spend money on a project they believe is doomed to failure. I can even see that they'd rather be right when it goes wrong. It's difficult to fully support it as much as you do the team and to put faith in the small chance it will come off. Even though that's a self defeating attitude, because it will only succeed with support. That's fine and i know many people who are passive. But I can't get my head around voiciferously oppsosing it and calling for an end to it, not because the long term goals and ideals are wrong, but because they've been rash to report an ill thought out rumour in a lapse back to the amateurish beginnings.