brummie

I feel a bit sorry for Beye. He's not really been given a fair crack of the whip with us. He's now third choice behind Cuellar and Luke Young. I have no idea why Martin bought him if he's decided so quickly he doesn't rate him. Perhaps he saw something in training he didn't like. I was told - source impeccable (but then again, aren't they always) - that in January he was pretty much on his way to Sunderland, but it fell down over money.

I don't know how they've managed that list when half of the clubs won't even have submitted accounts for that year yet. I know ours aren't due till this month.

From one of our forums today. The view from a 54 pound seat in a 1 billion pound stadium http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/7812/wem.jpg

Does anyone else think that the arse falling out of the football industry, and the tv money getting correspondingly slashed and football regressing a bit might actually be a *good* thing? I know one argument will be that our league won't compete with other European ones, but beyond supporters of the Sky 4, does anyone really have any interest in that? I have no desire whatsoever for any of those four clubs to be anywhere near European silverware. I'd rather see 20 teams (or less, ideally) with eleven Warren Aspinalls running around if it made things more competitive.

The Birmingham fans are bussed into Villa Park, too. We can't cordon off access to the city centre, as it is a fucking big city. How are we supposed to have 500 years of "culturally history" amongst ourselves? And what shape did said football rivalry take in the 15th century, out of interest. And you sound a bit like Danny Dyer quoting arrest figures. Pwopah norty! Pwopah norty!

Trafalgar Square was the only place where I actually saw a Man U fan, it wasn't the only place where I was drinking during the day. As for Chelsea fans, I would have expected that the Semi Final of the FA Cup is a bit more than on ordinary game and worthy of making a day of it. Maybe they remained in Chelsea, I doubt that they all live in Chelsea anyway. As for my memory of Man U fans being s****, that impression was because of the way they acted during the game when I was sitting in the same end as them. They're not shit though, they're certainly not the best as brummie suggests though in my view, he's only saying that as Villa Park seems to get overran by them every time they play there, and so it should it's only 90 miles up the motorway. They had a cup game there, was only about 29,000 there, and 6,000 were Man Utd end ticket holders and they seemed to be all over the ground, same game Nistelrooy scored a hattrick. That type of thing wouldn't happen somewhere with a proper support. They have about 10,000 fans who are vocal and seem to back them, the rest are shite and an embarrassment. That semi final in Cardiff oh dear, I seen a Malaysian with a ROONEY 9 shirt on nearthe station, he didn't even fucking wear 9. Villa Park doesn't get "overrun" when they play us. The fact of the matter is, they are consistently the noisiest away supporters, and I'm basing that on years of watching Villa, and saying it although I can't stand Manchester United. They just are. They're not only the loudest, they've got the widest selection of songs as well. I can say what you want if you like, and suggest that Newcastle are the loudest away fans at our place, but the fact is they're not. And neither, for that matter, are Sunderland, although they like to tell everyone they are. You can tell everyone all Man U away fans are 'Rooney 9' shirt wearing Malaysians if you like, but that's utter nonsense, as anyone with a brain will tell you. It's a bit like listening to some of our dimmer fans on the way to Wembley on Sunday, "hurr hurr, all Man U fans are fron Kent, they're all one game a season morons". Yeah, right, I'd like to see them run into some old school 1970s or 80s Man U fans and try that line. There are enough of them still about, too.

I honestly don't think you understand what our rivalry with them is like. To assume it is in any worse less vile than Newcastle - Sunderland is fanciful nonsense, I'm afraid. It is every bit as nasty, bitter, and underpinned by jealousy on one side (which the nastiest rivalries often are). The fact we live in the same city is the whole problem. West Midlands Police tried, but failed, to get our matches against them moved to 10am recently, which says a lot about it. To add to it, London is comparatively close to Birmingham, there would be plenty more people just travelling down "for the experience" as it is so cheap to get there. Incidentally, you are wrong about Man United's away support. i fucking hate that club, but in all the time i have been watching football - 35 years - it has consistently been the best. And that includes when they were in the second division, too. It is too easy to assume that because they, like Liverpool, have lots of gloryhunting fans, their away support is similar. It isn't. Liverpool's support at our place is dreadful - jester hat toting Irish / Scando / Southern counties camera-toting fuckwits. Man U's away support is almost entirely Mancunian, partisan and noisy. They've certainly been the loudest away fans at our place pretty much every year for the last 10 years, the only clubs that pushed them for it were the smaller clubs at FA Cup matches, and possibly Stoke and Spurs. And that's not particularly pleasant to admit, either.

Oh, one more thing, given the total and utter lack of segregation before and after the match, and on transport away from the ground, I truly dread to think of what it will be like in the quite possibly possible situation of us playing Birmingham City in the semi or final. Not a point specific to new Wembley, but even so ... *shudder*

I was sitting amongst Man U fans when we played them, they were really shit. The ones we met in the boozers before the match were all decent, and were almost all Mancs, proper fans who'd not turned up for a day out in their jester hats. Man United's away support is probably the best in the country, too. Which made it all the more disappointing when they all fucked off back to Wembley Park before the crush. I know the CCC is a far lower priority for them but even so ...

I was there for a FA Trophy Final involving Torquay with less than 41,000 in and it was a fabulous atmosphere. I think the atmosphere was appalling on Sunday as you had two shit sets of fans in there. Put Newcastle in there for a League Cup Final against someone like Leeds you'd see if it's to do with the dynamics of the ground or not. Yes, yes, of course, of course.

There are other clubs out there spending 100%+ of their income on wages alone? Serious question that like, I'd be interested to know. Certainly in comparison to most Premiership clubs (including us until this season) its a pretty large difference. No, I don't think there are What I meant was that very many football clubs operate on a basis which you would not find in any other business, where wage costs are an insupportably high proportion of turnover. Portsmouth are the poster boy of football's meltdown, but for those of us who support clubs who either do, or traditionally have done, pretty much the same thing, if on a less imminently disastrous scale, to be going for the moral high ground is a bit hypocritical. Football clubs are businesses, they don't operate in a special vacuum where the basic principles do not extend to them. It has got to end some time soon, and I reckon there will be more than a few chairmen looking at what is happening to Portsmouth and thinking "there but for the grace of God ..."

Feel for the fans, but all to happy to take their undeserved place in the premierleague. how is it undeserved ? Arguably it's undeserved because they've spent far beyond their means on the players that has kept them in the league. Not saying I agree with the sentiment mind. Isn't it a bit "glass houses" for a Newcastle fan - or, for that matter, a fan of about three quarters of the teams in the Premier League, including the one I support - to criticise Portsmouth for spending far beyond their means, though? This isn't just Portsmouth's problem, it is football's problem, and if something doesn't change soon, it will all go to tit. Fair point, but there's quite a difference when a club hasn't been able to pay their players for several months this year IMO. Not saying the overspending doesn't need to stop, but there's quite a difference between Pompeys overspending and anyone elses. No, there isn't that much of a difference. Spending 100 percent of your turnover on salaries is unsustainable. Spending 80 percent of your turnover on salaries is also unsustainable. One just becomes fatal quicker than the other.

Oh, one final (I promise) thing. A big portion of the Man U fans had fucked off before the presentation, and in many cases, before the final whistle.

Oh, and I know it is becoming almost cliche to say this, but the Millenium Stadium is 10 times the venue Wembley is.

That's true, and the arch doesn't come anywhere near it. As I said, the worst thing was the lack of atmosphere created by the corporate pandering. The second worst thing was the really, really drab feel to the place. It is a bit like going to a conference somewhere. Steel and glass and coldness. The third worst thing was the fact that, quite clearly, they got to a certain point in building what they wanted to be the best stadium in the world and just fucking gave up. Drinking in the concourses is all concrete and darkness. It is like having a pint of shite beer underneath the M6.

Being half full of Man U 'fans' probably had something to do with it. And the other half Villa You could stage the Boca - River Plate derby in that stadium, but stick that corporate level in there and it would reduce it to Wigan - Portsmouth on a wet Wednesday night, believe me.

The thing is, with the atmoshpere, the middle layer just kills it stone dead. It is quite amazing, and I can not stress it strongly enough. On Sunday I was on the bottom tier behind the goal. I looked to the top tier and there was singing all around it, and singing around us, but it seemed like they were singing different things. It is like when in the World Cup in an England game, there is a Mexican wave and it stops DEAD at the England section (although in that case, thankfully), the atmosphere at the new Wembley just gets killed by the middle tier. It is honestly the least atmospheric ground I have ever been to (and when you consider how un-atmospheric almost every PL ground is, that is saying something).

That's the point, there isn't a huge difference. Pompey was the extreme instance, but plenty of football clubs are run with sufficient disregard to the basic principles of business to find themselves in potentially the same problem pretty soon.

Feel for the fans, but all to happy to take their undeserved place in the premierleague. how is it undeserved ? Arguably it's undeserved because they've spent far beyond their means on the players that has kept them in the league. Not saying I agree with the sentiment mind. Isn't it a bit "glass houses" for a Newcastle fan - or, for that matter, a fan of about three quarters of the teams in the Premier League, including the one I support - to criticise Portsmouth for spending far beyond their means, though? This isn't just Portsmouth's problem, it is football's problem, and if something doesn't change soon, it will all go to tit. The whole of football is one big glass house, from chairmen, managers, players to fans. Amen to that, brother Liam(s).

The old Wembley was a horrid, piss stinking old dump of a place. I was at the new Wembley on Sunday. It is a horrible, piss stinking new dump of a place. I've never been in a stadium with so little atmosphere. I was quite staggered how much the corporate tier kills off any atmosphere. Anyway, my Wembley experiences are 1975, 1977, 1994, 1996, 2010 LC Finals 1981 Charity Shield 2000 FA Cup final 1990 Div 2 play off final (don't ask).

Feel for the fans, but all to happy to take their undeserved place in the premierleague. how is it undeserved ? Arguably it's undeserved because they've spent far beyond their means on the players that has kept them in the league. Not saying I agree with the sentiment mind. Isn't it a bit "glass houses" for a Newcastle fan - or, for that matter, a fan of about three quarters of the teams in the Premier League, including the one I support - to criticise Portsmouth for spending far beyond their means, though? This isn't just Portsmouth's problem, it is football's problem, and if something doesn't change soon, it will all go to tit.

Spurs do well because of the immense ticket prices they can charge, being in London.

How strange though, as I would say the same of La Liga this season outside of the current top 4. You can include two of the top four in England, though. Arsenal are woefully unconvincing. Liverpool, well, the most important point from them is the fact that they're in the top four at all.

You do have a gigantic squad, though. If you want injury list look at Everton. Moyes is a magician in that job. And I know 1878 and Neil will disagree, but that's the way it looks from the outside. I think the general point is valid, though, there is precious little quality anywhere in the league this season.

Spurs are flat track bullies, they do fine against the crap sides, but struggle against the decent ones. Same is true of Man City to a certain extent (and I think their Chelsea result was very much the exception to the norm). We struggle against shit sides but do well against better ones, Liverpool just look shit but keep picking up points from fuck only knows where. Everton look like world beaters one week then awful the next, and don't start playing until December. There's hardly any quality out there, and that extends to Arsenal as well. In fact, it extends to Chelsea and Man United who have also thrown up some really shite results, too.