brummie

4 quid for a hot dog isn't too bad. I pay 3 quid for one from a mobile botulism dispenser parked outside Villa Park.

10m at most I've heard, it doesn't matter how much they have to spend anyway when Steve Bruce is the manager. Straight back down imo. 1st time around they didn't do too badly, and he had some shocking injury problems the season they got relegated. I wouldn't write them off at this stage They're going straight back down where they belong, hopefully. Scum.

Man U have hiked theirs 14 percent havent they?

I know people will say it's only Wigan and they don't fill their ground anyway, but i'd go see Wigan vs *insert any decent team with world class players here* for £13 even though neither mean anything to me. I agree. 13 quid is close enough to the sort of sum people throw around without a second thought these days. Most Prem games at 30 odd quid are well above that level. I too would go and watch them play a half decent team for that money if they were near me

PS just noticed your comment re Wigan prices. That is exceptionally good. I'd love to think the TV money is getting to the level at which they can start to think about Bundesliga style prices rather than spaffing it all away on higher player wages.

What do you get for the "bar" season tickets? Just access to some bar with shorter queues?

Is the 919 just an exceptionally silly bit? ie is it the most spendy by far, or does the range stretch up to that price in increments? I was listening to Talk Shite this morning and some guy was saying how his company has a box at Chelsea which seats 20 people and is usable as an office 365 days of the year. One million of your English pounds per annum.

How much are your season tickets? As in range from cheapest to priciest? Just renewed mine, most spendy in the house, 475 quid. Pegged at 2005 prices, can't complain

The new (opened last week) training centre apparently has massive pics of them pretty much everywhere. Doug's biggest failing was that he thought he was "Mr Aston Villa", and anything else was essentially second in importance to his role and peoples perception of him. Southgate cost 2.5m. Hardly a small fortune. The spending was sporadic (Collymore, for example, Angel too), but the backing was never consistent enough to go the extra mile. His biggest fault was his failure to realise football had changed, and he was clearly stuck in the past. If he'd gone five years ago, I'd have a different opinion. The last five years we fell so much so quickly, it was frightening. I will stress, however, that he handled the eventual sale absolutely perfectly. Got the manager on board that all the bidding parties wanted. Didnt panic and sell to shysters like Ranson. Realised George Gillette couldnt match Lerner for money or commitment. Sold to pretty much the perfect owner. For that, I'll always be grateful. Love him or hate him, he was the very last of the old dynasty of local, provincial businessmen in top flight football, he certainly was a character. Oh, and he won in the end - he only really left because he was so ill, he left when HE chose, and not a minute earlier, the old bugger.

Not sure about that. He's quite small, and managers like Wenger, Mourinho and Allardyce have usually gone for the Viera type in the holding MF role. The thing about having a player like Butt (who appears to have got his shit together very nicely after his spell at Birmingham, when he was utterly awful) in the squad is that he might not be the star performer, and he might not be the kind of player other clubs will covet, but if you get rid of him, you find it really, really hard to find a suitable replacement, and they invariably cost a lot of money.

I think West Ham had the most, the whole squad. Villa's showing, two players and the manager, is abysmal.

My fondest memory of football as a kid is seeing the old floodlights which spelt out A V across the city. That and the Victorian splendour of the steps up to the old Trinity Road stand, which was genuinely one of the monuments of the old game. Gone, like the old Holte End holding 23,000 standing. Kids today don't know the half of it. The hideous scoreboard episode you refer to was one of Ellis' more out of touch ideas. And there were plenty of them, believe me. If you ever wonder why we seem so optimistic of late, just think what it must have been like having that c**t run your club for 30 years. I never understood the abuse Deadly Doug got. For starters if Shepherd delivers the CL one day, I'm sure he'll have a statue, which will cost fuckin loads mind the size of the cunt. Ellis won the EC during his first season as manager. You came second twice, and in 1989 to 1998, he always gave great financial backing along the way, and also giving you a secure financial footing. I remember reading Villa were never in debt with him at the helm, would you prefer if you'd had a chairman like Peter Ridsdale? I'm not one of the people who thinks he was an unmitigated bad thing. He saved the club from bankruptcy in 1968, that is a fact. His first spell there was largely successful. He appointed Ron Saunders who built two championship winning quality sides, one which did win it, one which didn't. However, your post gets one thing seriously wrong. Ellis was not at the club when we won the league in 81 and the EC in 82. That was during the spell when he had been ousted (79-82). Since then, there has been barely any recognition around the ground that we were European champions. Purely because the chairman wasnt there at the time. Can you imagine any other club doing that? No pictures even, nothing. He never gave great backing, either, that's another myth. We were the experts at "almost signing" people, we'd be linked with everyone, but not sign them as he'd quibble over small change (we missed out on Robbie Keane from Cov over 100k). He was happy for us to finish top 6 (pre CL days), but almost never prepared to spend the extra to make the final push, hence the second - sixth places. There was one occasion when he did back the manager with real cash, sadly that was John Gregory who spent 5m on players like Steve Stone. Oh, and our very own Albert Luque, Bosko Balaban (7m, 8 appearances, 0 goals). One thing he did do is ensure that we remained debt free, which given the reasonable results achieved in the premiership (until the last 3 or 4 years), was an achievement. He also sold to Lerner and appointed MON, two of the best things he did for us. He ran the club like a corner shop, a personal fiefdom, though. Put it into perspective - when you were signing Michael Owen, we were sending Erik Bakke back to Leeds as we couldnt afford his wages. You might be in debt, but at least you took a punt and had a go. He held the club back for far too long, and I'm just relieved he has gone.

"we couldn't give West Ham a points deduction, the legal team were all too busy chasing down a 12 year old who posted a 3 second 160 by 120 pixel mpeg of the Wigan coach arriving at Watford"

Not just during the match. Read today, as it happens, on one of our sites that a lad had the exact same message as he had posted phone footage of the Villa players doing the post match lap of honour last week. No match footage, just the lap of honour Petty, really

My fondest memory of football as a kid is seeing the old floodlights which spelt out A V across the city. That and the Victorian splendour of the steps up to the old Trinity Road stand, which was genuinely one of the monuments of the old game. Gone, like the old Holte End holding 23,000 standing. Kids today don't know the half of it. The hideous scoreboard episode you refer to was one of Ellis' more out of touch ideas. And there were plenty of them, believe me. If you ever wonder why we seem so optimistic of late, just think what it must have been like having that c**t run your club for 30 years.

Yep, it does make a difference, everyone (well, you know what I mean) supporting the same team develops a different kind of spirit. We don't even support the same club in my family, I have Albion supporting uncles and a Bluenose for a dad. I don't wear football shirts as leisure wear, but if i did, i would never wear one in the centre of Brum for fear some twat would have a go. It is definitely different.

But he didn't reject Newcastle for Villa though, did he? As I said, he is widely considered to have done so, although the absolute truth is not known Widely considered by who? I don't doubt he turned the Newcastle job down, however it was well reported at the time he was holding out for the England job, we waited for him for so long while the FA dragged out the whole process but in the end we had to move on so we appointed Roeder. After that O'Neill failed to get the England job and made it known he was ready to step back into management, later that summer Villa were as good as taken over and O'Leary was swapped for O'Neill. Not once was he ever put in the position where he had to chose between Newcastle and Villa as both job opportunities came months apart, it would be fair to say he rejected the Newcastle job in the hope of him landing the England job though, would he have accepted the Villa job if the circumstances were the same as when he rejected the Newcastle job? My personal opinion is he wouldn't of but we'll never know. Is there ANY proof MON was offered the toon job at ANY stage? No there isn't, and I don't care what anyone says if he has a choice between the Toon and Villa, why would he go there? Honestly? The same bloke who said Houllier was on the phone trying to get the Newcastle job said it. Can't recall that. How convenient!

The true measure of a club is in how many fans they take to SJP, is it? You're obsessed, man, obsessed. Obsessed by what? Villa are inconsequential to me, but the fact is MO'N clearly states we're a bigger club than Villa, but stating the fact that, that's what where he wants Villa to be, howay it doesn't take a genious to work out. NUFC has bigger fan base than Villa, Bigger Stadium hence, More money (i'm not sure after Villa's takeover)...In terms of prestige, I'm not sure which club is considered bigger in terms of achievments...I wouldn't say NUFC has achieved a lot...but I don't know how much compared to Villa... There was a bloke on Talksport the other day, I know, I know, full of mongs. However, this bloke was an articulate QPR fan arguing that the toon were indeed a big club, he said just being in Newcastle on a match day as an away fan had the hairs on the back of his neck standing up, and he said he could understand why the vast majority of footballers would love to play for the club. That's just one point of view. Whenever I've been to Villa, I've often wondered if they would actually fill their ground if they were a CL club, there's no vibe about the place at all, like there is when you go to Anfield, or even when you go to somewhere like Rangers. A few points to consider re differing matchday experiences .... 1. Newcastle is a much smaller city than Brum, miles smaller. The club is bound to form a bigger part of it. 2. Stop someone in the streets in Newcastle and ask them who they support, and you know with almost certainty what the answer will be. Stop someone in Brum and ask them and they could be Villa, Blues, Albion, Walsall, Coventry, Wolves .... there are three clubs within the city, let alone within the conurbation. 3. Villa Park is in a suburb of the city. SJP is right in the centre of the city. That makes a difference. Walk around Newcastle city centre on a matchday doing your shopping and you'll see loads of fans - because a. the ground is IN the city centre and b. the city centre is smaller in the first place. Walk around Brum centre on a match day and you will see far fewer for the opposite of the reasons above. 4. No vibe around Villa Park? What about history? There aren't many venues with more history than VP, even if the oldest of the stands is now only 30 years old (and itself to be demolished soon), the location oozes history. The ground is built in the grounds of a stately home, as if to emphasise it. That's why the matchday experiences are different. Oh, and as for hairs on the back of the neck standing up, the matchday experience *everywhere* these days is utter, utter shite compared to years gone by, including SJP

Dear God alive. NO, I do *not* believe a manager turning down city for villa makes villa a bigger club, or vice versa. In fact, I am pointing out precisely the opposite. It was Stevie who implied that a manager opting for one job rather than the other makes the club he opted for the bigger club. My "irony" point was to show that this argument is rubbish, and to point out the irony in what Stevie was saying, re MON / Villa / Newcastle. If you're going to put words into my mouth to fit your own argument though, go ahead I can understand you defending your club, in fact I'd expect you to, I'm sure MON had his reasons for accepting the offer to manage Villa, but whatever they were, I'd be surprised if it was because he thinks Villa have bigger and better support As I said, mate, I never even mentioned anything about whether one club was bigger than the other. I was pointing out the flaw in Stevie's argument. I'm not bothered about whether one has bigger or "better" support, I don't care. I'm just happy I've seen us win some fantastic stuff in the past and hope we win some more in the future. I've got a few clubs I have a spot for, and Newcastle are one of them, and I've got some clubs I particularly dislike, but I'm not obssessed with measuring the "stature" of my club against them, and I'm even less interested in coming onto their websites and starting arguing about it, I can't be bothered for one thing, and it would be disrespectful for another. Stevie seems to be determind to bring it up all the time, though, witness the launching of his tirade earlier in this thread when all I did was ask how he knew under which conditions Houllier would return to England.

The true measure of a club is in how many fans they take to SJP, is it? You're obsessed, man, obsessed. Obsessed by what? Villa are inconsequential to me, but the fact is MO'N clearly states we're a bigger club than Villa, but stating the fact that, that's what where he wants Villa to be, howay it doesn't take a genious to work out. I mean you're obsessed with "bigness" of clubs (when the 'bigness' is measured only by criteria which you yourself decide on), when this wasn't even a discussion of it. I asked you what you based your opinion that Houllier would only come back to England for the big four plus Newcastle (or whicherver group of clubs it was) and you predictably went off on one like some kind of ritalin-starved ADD parrot. I never even mentioned Villa, you did. And then you mentioned Spurs as well, just to get another of your favourite rants back off the ground. Chill the fuck out, mate, you'll have a heart attack or something.

The true measure of a club is in how many fans they take to SJP, is it? You're obsessed, man, obsessed.

All entirely by the by, mate, considering I haven't at any point in this thread actually commented on the "bigness" of clubs, but you're entirely welcome to your opinions.

But he didn't reject Newcastle for Villa though, did he? As I said, he is widely considered to have done so, although the absolute truth is not known

Dear God alive. NO, I do *not* believe a manager turning down city for villa makes villa a bigger club, or vice versa. In fact, I am pointing out precisely the opposite. It was Stevie who implied that a manager opting for one job rather than the other makes the club he opted for the bigger club. My "irony" point was to show that this argument is rubbish, and to point out the irony in what Stevie was saying, re MON / Villa / Newcastle. If you're going to put words into my mouth to fit your own argument though, go ahead

It's basically an admittance we're a much bigger club, so if he had the opportunity to become our manager, why would he go to a smaller club. PFFFT some people. Again, you've got a marvellous talent for reading things that aren't there. At which point does he say Newcastle are a bigger club than Villa? He bigs you up, and correctly in my opinion, there's nothing he says there I wouldn't agree with. He says you're a big club, and he hopes our - and I am quoting here - "Ambition and willingness to invest" - match what yours have been over recent years. It is widely considered that he did have the opportunity to take the Toon job and didn't take it. I'm not saying this DOES mean anything about whether one club is bigger than the other, it doesn't. It was in fact YOU who implied this with your "rejecting Citeh for villa, AS IF!!!" comment earlier. Do you really, geniunely not understand this?