Gallowgate Toon

We'll have to be very careful next week, they're obviously very dangerous on the counter with Eto'o's pace, Traore's quick too.

It would have been very hard for him to be exposed in games where we've been so defensive. We'll see how good he is positionally when he's required to do more. He will be very good, excellent athlete and good footballer, but he's not quite Santon's level yet.

Loves an interception!

Very bold today, credit to him for it.

MYM vs. Eto'o should be very interesting.

And you don't think there's another reason that these 'inferior' players might have gotten more goals? The fact that the managers might play to said strikers' strengths? Wigan and Southampton play open and attacking football, I bet they've created more clear-cut opportunities over the course of the season than we have. I'd say Villa are more attacking too, they're another one let down by a poor defence. Let's not forget that Benteke and Lambert also take penalties too, as well as free kicks for the latter. I think there's blame on both sides, Cisse's poor form is partly down to rubbish management and partly down to him. We are 12th for GS. Way more goals than Villa and Wigan. 12 more than Villa ffs. We've 1 less than S'hampton. Maybe Kone's pace in behind has got him a few goals? Benteke's strength a few goals. Lambert ability to take a penalty etc. you understand? I didn't realise that goals scored was simply an indicator of how many good chances a team creates. All of those strikers, bar LeFondre (and he's not far off at all), have had more shots a game than Cisse, telling you all you need to know about them getting service, which will no doubt correlate to the way their team plays. And yes, I understand what you're saying, Cisse is a worse striker than Ricky Lambert and Adam LeFondre I'm done with this, it's boring everyone's tits off and you're blinded by an agenda.

Can't disagree with that.

And you don't think there's another reason that these 'inferior' players might have gotten more goals? The fact that the managers might play to said strikers' strengths? Wigan and Southampton play open and attacking football, I bet they've created more clear-cut opportunities over the course of the season than we have. I'd say Villa are more attacking too, they're another one let down by a poor defence. Let's not forget that Benteke and Lambert also take penalties too, as well as free kicks for the latter. I think there's blame on both sides, Cisse's poor form is partly down to rubbish management and partly down to him.

Facts are facts, 2 shots a game this season (I bet the majority of which weren't even decent chances) isn't enough service for the majority of strikers and it's completely irrelevant trying to compare him to Ba, a player with a different style and strengths who can profit from different situations. Cisse's had a poor year, eveyone can see that but it would be complete lunacy to put all of the blame on him, not all of the factors are within his control. He's still a very good striker, who can score a variety of goals and thrives off good service.

I wouldn't disagree with the first part of this. I do think he of course has to take some blame, but I don't think he's now a poor striker and there are a lot of different factors that go into his overall season. Basically, I sympathise with his lack of chances, he's not really being given a good platform to work with and I'll call him out on it if he gets that but doesn't take said opportunities.

Thank you. Suarez, Bale, heck even Demba Ba get themselves into positions either with skill, pace, movement or just sheer strength and they get their shots off. He's shown he can score in this team, as has Demba Ba. Now all of a sudden, we are so crap creatively 6 goals in 20 something games is "about right"? The same amount of goals as Yohan Cabaye? Less than Lambert. Probably around the same as a couple Reading lads. Aye, "about right". People moaned and cried for months from him to be the head of a 4-3-3 type system. We've done that. We've added some pace and movement to the left. A better outlet from deep on the right. Real movement, strength, power, pace and quality balls from our #10 type player and #4 deep midfielder. Now these guys aren't doing enough FOR Cisse. Maybe Cisse isn't doing enough for them? You are completely missing the point. I don't think 6 goals is where he SHOULD be at, but considering the complete lack of service and consequent lack of decent chances, it's not really a surprise and regarding Demba, he's a different striker who scores different types of goals. You mention Lambert but he plays in a very creative team and takes their free kicks and penalties. Cisse's had a couple of games at most this year where he's had more than one decent opportunity and there's been lots of others where he's had absolutely nowt to work with. Are you genuinely calling us a creative side here? Like I said, I don't think Ba's goals this year were really because of great or even decent, inventive service, he's just first class at getting on to stuff and making something out of very little, that's his game. And as if it was going to be as simple as moving to a new shape. You cite new players, but how have they helped him in the last couple of games? We've improved as a team, but you're unbelievably narrow minded if you think we're getting the best out of Cisse in any way, shape or form. This doesn't mean I think he's at all blameless here, the offsides are annoying etc. but I still don't think we're doing enough to help him out, we're not playing to his strengths as a striker and we won't until we attack with more variety.

His main asset is his movement, that's something we certainly don't play to. To complement that, we need to give him service quicker, both in terms of crosses out wide and balls through the middle. His goal against Bordeaux was class, it came from a left-footed left back that can whip in a ball early, something we've not seen in the league. Last month's link up with Cabaye and Sissoko showed exactly what he'd really been missing, someone with vision who could supply early through balls as he hung on the shoulder of the defender. Lastly, get some people and movement around him in the box, we don't get enough players in there and he just doesn't have the power (like Ba) to get extra bit of space while battling with defenders. It's simply too slow and predictable and there's consequently too much of an emphasis on physicality getting goals, there's no intelligence there and he's not going to thrive like that. In terms of general play, use him as a target and link up man as little as possible, and if we do, keep it on the deck because he's useful with one touch passes etc. Sissoko's pretty much a centre forward for us, he's the link man between midfield and attack, his presence should allow Cisse to play on the shoulder, where he's most effective.

It's more than just a system Unbelievable, it's about playing to his strengths while in that system. He's getting very little service, as Wullie pointed out. It did improve initially after the new signings but over the last couple of games he's again had very little to work with. Our crossing is abysmal on the whole, he's had little in the way of passes behind defence all season. Where the hell is he supposed to get goals from? 2 shots a game for a striker is horrific, and people wonder why he's not getting more goals. Let's not agree with facts though, that's simply an excuse. Just on a sidenote, he and Ba have around the same conversion rate this year.

Says it all. Those first couple of months I really felt for him, he just didn't get a sniff. Ba's gone but we still expect the same results from a completely different player, we've got to play to his strengths more.

Considering the complete lack of service to him, I'm afraid it is, like I said, over the season I bet he has had less than a chance a game. You don't find many strikers like Ba who can get so much out of so little. You want Cisse to get goals, give him some openings by getting some movement going on around him and give him some service, like the vast majority of strikers out there.

Jonas might as well have been full back yesterday. The player position map from yesterday showed Debuchy was higher up than him.

Can you not count? We need to create more opportunities, unless you honestly believe one chance a game is good service? Is another striker going to be more clinical considering how little we create? The average conversion rate for a top striker is 20%. For 18 months we've had strikers that can score regularly. Now, with a better team, we aren't creating the chances? Cool. They are 2 completely different strikers. One finished off scraps, literally only scoring twice from outside the box in his whole time here (one a deflected free kick vs Arsenal), the other isn't like that, he needs service and scores a variety of goals. You play to your striker's strengths as he's the one who wins you games, we don't do that with our current one. Edit: Adding to what I said. You've obviously been duped into thinking we're some kind of creative team, Dropout. I'd say Ba's fantastic ability to get something out of nothing in the box has masked our creative deficiencies, this year in particular. We've leaned on strikers in hot form for too long, we need to be more expansive as a team, apart from a few games last year, we simply haven't played to our potential under Pardew.

He's had a couple of matches where he's missed a few (Reading and Chelsea) but I think overall, he's had less than one chance a game this year, 6 goals is about right considering the abysmal service. We were dreadful in the opening 2 months especially, I can barely think of any opportunities he had and he's not the type to overpower others to finish scraps, like Ba.

Can you not count? We need to create more opportunities, unless you honestly believe one chance a game is good service? Is another striker going to be more clinical considering how little we create? The average conversion rate for a top striker is 20%.

We need to create more for him, yesterday wasn't good enough on that front and it hasn't been since Chelsea.

That was hardly a simple chance, it was on his weaker foot, bouncing and he was getting closed in on very quickly by 3 players. Put Van Persie on his right foot in that situation on the other side and you'd hardly be surprised if he didn't bury it, the disappointment for me is that he didn't hit the target. We've only given him 3 chances in his last 2 games IIRC, he's buried 1, that's still above par for the course for the vast majority of strikers (around 25% conversion). He is not a hold up player but quite frankly he shouldn't need to be with the level of talent and power in our midfield, he needs to be on the shoulder of defenders, moving around so players like Cabaye and Sissoko can play him through. We've simply not given him the service he needs of late.

I would have agreed, but I think that role works for him perfectly now that we have Sissoko. He's playing as much more of an all-rounder now imo, instead of being totally hampered by his defensive responsibilities. Agreed. I've just looked at the players' average position heat map thing, and he wasn't as deep as I first thought. I do think Cisse misses his passing ability around the box though, but hopefully HBA will fill that void when he eventually returns.

Cabaye's still a little too deep for me, we need him a little higher so he can link up with Cisse a bit more.

I think Anita and Marveaux have been treated poorly since the new lads came in mind, for all Pardew's skill as a man manager it's been bad form how he's just dumped them. They were both very good in our poor run and they would hardly be detrimental to the team if they got more than 5 minutes here and there in the league. We should rotate Tiote and Anita anyway but that's just not going to happen.

That's not exactly true like, Marveaux was excellent in Kharkiv, tracking back in the last minutes of the game etc but he's not particularly intelligent in his defensive duties. I agree with your general sentiment though, I think he can only play wide in certain situations and should mainly play as an attacking midfielder. Cabaye Sissoko Marveaux Would be a very interesting midfield 3 to try at some point (preseason).