fredbob

Remember reading in SBR's book that it was standard procedure to "adjust" a players wages if a bid is rejected from another club to compensate for what the player might have earned at the new club - looks like another case of Ashley and co not understanding football! Having said that if you look at the names that Carroll is alongside in the highest transfers fees list you can empathise with the club a little bit; +£35m is a huge number, if only the equation was as simple as this, i'd rather have £35m invested in the squad with no Carroll than having the current squad with Carroll.

Disappointed at whats happened but I have to say £35mill+ is an incredible amount of money for a player who's only had half a season in the prem. Wayne Rooney went for less and was proven at an international tournament, not only that but the money was instrumental in Evertons rise, to some extent it was the same with Spurs and Berbatov. Hopefully this paves the way for a bit of investment (i know i know), naive of me to think that but the signs this season show to me that we are looking at quality players, for the first time in a while i have faith in the clubs scouting system, I'm cautiously optimistic. This was kind of the model that we were looking at - getting younger players improving them then re investing that money in the squad like Spurs and like Arsenal. If you ask me this will continue.

For me from a purely tactical point of view, Jonas' value doesn't lie in his direct productivity but in the directness of his play, he does draw a lot of fouls which is useful when you have AC in the box and he also cuts inside which creates both space for our CM as it often draws in the opposition CM and also creates alot more space for Enrique. For me this has allowed Enrique to drive forward more and also has allowed him to cross from more dangerous areas. I lost count of the number of times our right hand side was left in acres of space because play had been drawn over from the left hand side. Im yet to see Enrique and Jonas offered the same amount of space because neither Barton or Simpson draw in the opposition as much as these 2 do. I cant help think that those criticising Jonas want a direct player, with pace who can cross a ball really well, well doesn't everyone?!

Personally think our absolutle priority in the short term is a striker with good movment around the box. Dare i say it someone in the same mould as Owen (though i wouldnt have him here), Nolan has scored a few of his goals directly from Carroll causing a nuisance in the box and i think someone more deft at finding those spaces would be a valuable asset to the team, also would add another dimension to the way we play. Keane at £7m is a massive no no but a loan deal would never be a bad thing for us.

Talking bout this the other day, think we have players who'd do ok in the currently fashoinable 4-2-3-1. Krul Simpson, Colo,Williamson, Enrique Tiote Barton Routledge Ben Arfa Jonas Carroll It obviously depends on how we want to play, if we're holding a lot of possession like we did earlier in the season under Hughton then i genuinely think this would do well, would have tiote sitting and Barton up and down the pitch, ben arfa gets pretty much a free role and Jonas and Routledge gambling and getting in the box, whilst providing width on the counter. Genuinely thinjk thats a pretty multi functional team. The obvious omission would be Nolan his goals have been important but his lack of mobility have also been a hinderance at times.

Not that I want to delve head first into finances I dont particularly understand but as a PLC isnt the price of the club relative to the share prices? Would I be right in saying that the share prices were reflective of the finacial situation we were in? As far as i'm aware £134m for one of the top 20 richest clubs in the world was a decent price for all involved, only for the actual fianacial situation of the club to be even worse than imagined. Probably bollocks mind.

I think you had a good point, only problem was comparing Martin O'Neill to Lionel Messi. One is decent, the other is one of the best ever. Haha, as much as id love to see messi in black and white, id much rather see a manager who's had a proven record of getting the best out of his players, i dont particularly rate O'neill very highly, i think he's a just a good manager but his record has been pretty decent whereever he's been, the exaggeration was there to highlight the relative importances of my point of view.

Im out, im actually boring myself.

True, but you need to spend something to attract the right man. Even then we wouldn't have been relegated if he got one of the 5000 better than Kinnear, wouldn't have lost 40m in TV money and could release/sell the high earners now after a stable season. Instead we're shitting ourselves about another relegation and Hughton is still here because Ashley has done naff all since we went down and he doesn't complain, not because of some fucking masterplan. True, to a point, alot of clubs have found good manager with little cash in the pot, Fulham, Everton, Blacburn, even our own club was in a tight spot when SBR took over, its where i think the majority of critiscm aimed at the club should be focused, our failing to employ a credible manager. I guess thats my only point. My Messi/O'Neill analogy is a prime example of how i feel about, id much rather have a pretty ordinary manager with a decent reputation who would guide us so far leaving us in a better place like he did Leicester aloowing us to attract a better class of manager from there on in to having one of the best players of all time, in my opinion, becasue its my belief thatt he quality of the playing staff can only get you so far yet the quality of a manager can get you even further. Ridicule away. What is the point of talking about hiring Martin O'Neill in a thread about Ashley? In which alternate universe would MON come here under the Ashley regime? What is it about Ashley or MON that would even remotely lead you to think that might happen? Ok, a lot of people missing the point, the point being that id rather have a compentent manger at the club than a world class player, becasue one near enough guarantuees relative success the other doesnt. The analogy i gave was symbolic of the attitudes people have towards transfer i.e they guratee sucess, they dont.

True, but you need to spend something to attract the right man. Even then we wouldn't have been relegated if he got one of the 5000 better than Kinnear, wouldn't have lost 40m in TV money and could release/sell the high earners now after a stable season. Instead we're shitting ourselves about another relegation and Hughton is still here because Ashley has done naff all since we went down and he doesn't complain, not because of some f***ing masterplan. True, to a point, alot of clubs have found good manager with little cash in the pot, Fulham, Everton, Blacburn, even our own club was in a tight spot when SBR took over, its where i think the majority of critiscm aimed at the club should be focused, our failing to employ a credible manager. I guess thats my only point. My Messi/O'Neill analogy is a prime example of how i feel about, id much rather have a pretty ordinary manager with a decent reputation who would guide us so far leaving us in a better place like he did Leicester aloowing us to attract a better class of manager from there on in to having one of the best players of all time, in my opinion, becasue its my belief thatt he quality of the playing staff can only get you so far yet the quality of a manager can get you even further. Ridicule away. We kinda had that with fat sam but kinda messed it up by giving him pots of cash which he fucked up. We had an alright manager in Keegan as well only the board did manage to fuck that up, like i said my main critiscm is the largely held view that the most important thing a board should do is spend money, it isnt, it's to appoint the right man. Not spending money in January isnt what got us relegated, it was having that fucking loon in charge yet you read it over and over again that it was Ashleys lack of expenditure that get us binned. It's horseshit. The thing is that its bound to get twisted, I'm not saying we should spend no money and keep our powder dry until we're debt free, what im saying is that spending money isn;t the definitive affirmative answer on making the club successful, I'm just sick of hearing this "signing Ben /arfa/2 is the difference between getting us relegated and finsinihing mid table. /thats bullshit, and no ones pointing it out, if we signed Ben arfa and had Jim smith in charge we'd still be relegated.

True, but you need to spend something to attract the right man. Even then we wouldn't have been relegated if he got one of the 5000 better than Kinnear, wouldn't have lost 40m in TV money and could release/sell the high earners now after a stable season. Instead we're shitting ourselves about another relegation and Hughton is still here because Ashley has done naff all since we went down and he doesn't complain, not because of some fucking masterplan. True, to a point, alot of clubs have found good manager with little cash in the pot, Fulham, Everton, Blacburn, even our own club was in a tight spot when SBR took over, its where i think the majority of critiscm aimed at the club should be focused, our failing to employ a credible manager. I guess thats my only point. My Messi/O'Neill analogy is a prime example of how i feel about, id much rather have a pretty ordinary manager with a decent reputation who would guide us so far leaving us in a better place like he did Leicester aloowing us to attract a better class of manager from there on in to having one of the best players of all time, in my opinion, becasue its my belief thatt he quality of the playing staff can only get you so far yet the quality of a manager can get you even further. Ridicule away.

This is hands down the worst thing anyone has ever posted on this foum. Look at the long term, if we signed messi he's get us up a few places but then what? is the club in a better place long term, i think not, does the playing staff around him get better with the signing of messi, i tihink not. With a pretty ordinary manager like O'neill you get someone who will amost guarantuee to imprve the fortunes of the club, like he did at Celtic, like hedid at Villa (albeit with money) and most importantly like he did with Leicester. The way i see it is if he leaves us stabiliesd around midtable dont we have a better chance of getting a better manager from there on in moving us up further...the point stands.

To be fair, you deserve ridicule. You've defended this inept moron ever since he proved that he was one, and now you continue to do so. Martin O'Neill got Aston Villa to where it was by spending a load of money. He walked when some of his players had to be sold. How the hell do you think someone like Ashley, with a tradition of selling players behind the manager's back without even putting the money back in the club, is going to attract O'Neill? How the hell is Ashley going to attract any manager if he continues not supporting them -- and even sacking the more successful among them, like you suggest? Only a no-name manager like Hughton, or someone who's been out of a job for years, like Kinnear, will work for that man. You're a fucking idiot, man. Missing the point spectaculalry. Well done.

Everyones an expert on how to run a club. I cant believe so many seemingly 'sensible' people seemingly fail to understand the singular importance of having the right man running the team, which in my opinion isnt Hughton. How much you spend on the team pales in significances in comparison to having the right man in charge. The lack of transfer cash is a fair stick to beat Ashley with, potentially missing out on Ben Arfa will add another few inches to the stick (and rightly so), but the way it gets harped out and overplayed every transfer window is boring. My philosophy of what we should be doing is basically this, I'd rather have someone like Martin O'Neill at the club than Lionel Messi. Ive opened myself up to absolute ridicule and fully expect to be riduculed but it does make perfect sense.

Has to be Colo, he's the only central defender out the lot whose style compliments Campbells, the others (including campbell) are defenders whose style is to attack the ball where possible whereas Colos style it to anticipate and intercept, to read play and to play the ball out of defence. He does have to step us his game this year though.

Always liked Dyer as a player, not technically the best but his athletiscm carried those flaws at times. Also thought he was surprising intelligent player as well, if he could finish I dont think he'd of played for us for as long as he did. I always seem to remember a general resurgence from the team when he managed to get fit whilst we had Roeder and Souness in charge, definitely an influential player at times.

Duly noted. Just because it was noted doesnt mean i'm going to listen, seems like a fair discussion to me, or is this a debate free zone?!

Rooney's goalscoring record is second to none? Is this not the first season he's hit 20 in the league? This is the first season that Rooney's looked like a natural goalscorer. Drogba has scored more league goals in 3 of the last 4 seasons despite Rooney's recently instated penalty taking responsiblities. Rooneys goal scoring record is second to none, yes. His goal scoring record is nearly 1 in 2 - 106 in 256 games, with 25 goals in a white shirt. Pointing to some idle stat really means nothing, michael owen too has a very good goal scorigin record without ever hitting more than 20 league goals in a season, again i could be mistaken, burt you've literally added nothing to your argument. Also, this is proba the very fiorst season where Rooney has been the main man and has had the team geared towards his strengths having played second fiddle to Ronaldo for many season, even playong on the left of midfield to accomodate Ronaldo, yet he's still managed to maintain a good goal scoring record. Drogba has had the Chelsea spearhead role since he first signed there and hasnt really had to adapt his game to accomodate others whatsoever. Basically Ronaldo you're wrong.

Duly noted.

He has been consistently one of the better attacking players in the england set up, I'd defy you to find atoo many who's outshone him in the england set up attackng wise. I mean he was the leading scorer in the WC qualifiers in the european qualifliers (Ithink) that shows a decent level of form. I know its a few years back but from what little i remeber he was decent in WC2006 and defiitely a star in 2004, thats 2 major tournaments where he's applied him self, more than 80% of the england squad. It's laughable saying that he's not in the same league, I'm not sure what difference there is between the repsective players to make them 'leagues apart' but I'd like to find out. This is coming from Drogba fan. Drogba is a lot more intelligent off the ball and a better finisher. Agree to disagree. Always thought rooney was a superb finisher, his goal scoring record is second to none, at all levels, much like drogba's, cant see how you can draw the conclusion that drog is therefore a better finisher, in fact unless im mistaken his goal scoring recored is actually better than drogba's so i definintely fail to see ywhere you've drawn that conclusion. As for off the ball intelligence i cant really back any iopinion up on that, ive always had rooney down as a supremely inelligent player on the field. Would i be wrong in saying that off the ball intellignce is basicallly movement? Could someone elaborate for me please becasue if thats the case then rooney movement is excellent.

He doesn't play with the same freedom he once did as an 18 year old. Don't get me wrong, he's great at what he does and you can't knock his goal scoring record over the past season. However, I personally preferred the Rooney that played behind the striker, the one that linked up play, ran at people, set people up and came onto the end of things from deep. I remember an article, think it was posted on here sometime about how he was a completely different player after he left Everton, and it pretty much summizes what you've said, however i cant help but think that the Rooney we have now is the more complete player, the better team player who can play multiple roles, the opld rooney was much better to watch, but i think this rooney is much more effective, his hold up play is excellent, his vision is great, link up brilliant, movement great and finishing and creativity are all top notch. The problem i have with the current rooney in the ebngland set up is that he's easy to mark becasue i think capello expects him to be relatively rigid in his postioning ie last man stuff, he's generally more effective for man u because he can float and is therefore difficult to mark, yet he still has thdrive to be the last man even when he isnt,. if that makes sense.

He has been consistently one of the better attacking players in the england set up, I'd defy you to find atoo many who's outshone him in the england set up attackng wise. I mean he was the leading scorer in the WC qualifiers in the european qualifliers (Ithink) that shows a decent level of form. I know its a few years back but from what little i remeber he was decent in WC2006 and defiitely a star in 2004, thats 2 major tournaments where he's applied him self, more than 80% of the england squad. It's laughable saying that he's not in the same league, I'm not sure what difference there is between the repsective players to make them 'leagues apart' but I'd like to find out. This is coming from Drogba fan.

Thought he looked good against Slovenia, couple of nice touches, pretty much a hair breadth away from setting up 2 goals and scoring himself. Now that we seem to have clicked, we might start seeing the best of him. In Don we trust.

So basically wth that in mind you'd be saying that about any manager we had this season who got us into this position? What have you seen in Hughton to suggest he might not make it as a prem amanager? For what its worth Im wary about having him in the premiership, so far Hughton has the team playing at par.

He's been trying to get the thread closed for ages for some unknown reason, though to be fair, I do think it's been pretty much covered. The people who are definitely wrong are those who claim Ashley has so far done a grand job, he's done a shite job, however, he did the right things in January after 2 1/2 years of getting it hopelessly wrong. There is still a fair bit to go for him to show he's getting it right and wants to take the club forward. No one then.