fredbob

NE5 are you having a breakdown? Do you need to talk to somebody?

mackems.gif Is this your one man mission to make sure that nothing negative is said about the old board? Never seen such blinkered views in my life. Cue retort of top 4 European quals and 3 consec top 5 finishes and how well we're doing nows etc etc.

To be honest, im numb at the mo, but i have a slight feeling at the back of my mind that Boltons fixture list will proe too much. It would be the worse thing if were to go down becasue i can see a spending spree this summer like no other being shelved cos of it, Keegan is the only man im genuinely excited about having money.

WHat, ones like Barton, Smith, Enrique, Geremi and Viduka? Of course we'd have been where we are. Only difference is, when we've been s*** recently, Keegan has spouted his s**** abut us playing well, whereas Fat c*** would have blamed the players, fans, groundstaff ad George Stephenson for pur problems. Yeh man, i agree with you, i was agaisnt Allardyce getting too much money in the Jan window anyway cos i didnt think he'd proved anyhting with the players he'd signed anyway, however a player like Diarra maybe could of given the midfield a bit of stregnth. Its hard to disagree with peole saying that if Allardyce had signed more players to which would of fitted his systembetter then we would of maybe suceeded a bit, however as it stands i still dont think the players are s*** even though there performnaces have been woeful, i just think they have had all the confidence sapped out of them and need that first win to get a bit of solidarity in the ranks. We wouldn't have signed Diarra, he has ability. You think Geremi, Viduka and Smith have ability??? Come on! I dont know wht to think about our players to be honest, part of me thinks that they're are crap, but then i look at the squads just above us and ones lower and i think surely the position we are in is down the the fact that the players dont have the ability. Confidence, organisation and pace are killing us to be honest. I'd be gutted if we went down because we wont see the spending spree that i think is just around the corner.

West Ham vs Liverpool a couple of years ago was an amazing final. Had everything.

WHat, ones like Barton, Smith, Enrique, Geremi and Viduka? Of course we'd have been where we are. Only difference is, when we've been s*** recently, Keegan has spouted his s**** abut us playing well, whereas Fat c*** would have blamed the players, fans, groundstaff ad George Stephenson for pur problems. Yeh man, i agree with you, i was agaisnt Allardyce getting too much money in the Jan window anyway cos i didnt think he'd proved anyhting with the players he'd signed anyway, however a player like Diarra maybe could of given the midfield a bit of stregnth. Its hard to disagree with peole saying that if Allardyce had signed more players to which would of fitted his systembetter then we would of maybe suceeded a bit, however as it stands i still dont think the players are shit even though there performnaces have been woeful, i just think they have had all the confidence sapped out of them and need that first win to get a bit of solidarity in the ranks.

Or if he's really clever, he'll keep them cos they might be pretty handy next year......

Excellent, just another example. try responding ? Would you lead by example? What is your link to the old board/Freddy Shepherd?

To be honest, no i dont think we would of been in this situation. I think the would of been new impetus in the squad with the with maybe a couple of new signings (not sure who though)which may of got us a couple of results maybe against Boro and Bolton which would of made things slightly less pressured. But overall id pin point the current situation on 3 factors maybe 4. They would be the many points thrownaway earlier in the season, which Allardyce has to take responsiblity for, the timing of the sacking which is an iffy one because i dont think its right to have to back a manager you clearly dont want which the board have to take responsiiblty for, Keegans choices to not go out to sign anyone and maybe some of keegans tactics against big teams. To be honest, i think the major decision which will of affected us the most will probably be the sacking, the board have done us no favours, however having said that i saw no other option, so....

surprised you even ask this Dave, when a quick IP check will show you that I live nearer to where you do than Tyneside just now !! So is that a yes or a no? Because i cant see anything in your answer which suggests you do or dont have a link to the old board and Shepherd. Still not answering the question. It would be easier if you just lied. fredbob, its very amusing that you think anyone who doesn't slate the old board for saving the club from bankruptcy, the old 3rd division and qualified us for europe more than everyone bar 4 teams, only does so because they "know them personally". I'm not going to say what you want to hear, sorry, but I know you won't believe me anyway, so there is no point is there BTW, I'm not a lawyer or a politician, and they always tell the truth. Honestly speaking, if you told me that you genuinely had no link to the board or Freddy Shepherd then id believe you,i'd of have no choice but to believe you. However the fact that you cant and wont answer a simple question directly suggests that theres more to it. Scared that you may lose credibility if theres an obvious bias in your history? Like i said, it would of been easier to lie. As has been pointed out, I can back up my comments and "opinions" with stone cold facts so the whole question is irrelevant. Still no direct answer. Fair enough. Ill leave you to it. The plot thickens.

surprised you even ask this Dave, when a quick IP check will show you that I live nearer to where you do than Tyneside just now !! So is that a yes or a no? Because i cant see anything in your answer which suggests you do or dont have a link to the old board and Shepherd. Still not answering the question. It would be easier if you just lied. fredbob, its very amusing that you think anyone who doesn't slate the old board for saving the club from bankruptcy, the old 3rd division and qualified us for europe more than everyone bar 4 teams, only does so because they "know them personally". I'm not going to say what you want to hear, sorry, but I know you won't believe me anyway, so there is no point is there BTW, I'm not a lawyer or a politician, and they always tell the truth. Honestly speaking, if you told me that you genuinely had no link to the board or Freddy Shepherd then id believe you,i'd of have no choice but to believe you. However the fact that you cant and wont answer a simple question directly suggests that theres more to it. Scared that you may lose credibility if theres an obvious bias in your history? Like i said, it would of been easier to lie.

I take it you 2 know each others identities?

surprised you even ask this Dave, when a quick IP check will show you that I live nearer to where you do than Tyneside just now !! So is that a yes or a no? Because i cant see anything in your answer which suggests you do or dont have a link to the old board and Shepherd. Still not answering the question. It would be easier if you just lied.

Try this then There are a fair few who have said they want to come to the premierhship, its only the Liverpool job which looks like it will be availbale and appealing to big managers, the next one from that is ours, Houllier Lippi Van Gaal Scolari Mourihno (said he wants to come back sooner or later) Hitzfeld Capello They are all managers in recent times who have said they would like to come to the premiership, not saying that they would come now but just saying the names are out there. p.s Im aware of some of the peoples circumstances, just reiterating that its an appealing league which top class managers want to come to. The fact is is that managers want to manage in this league, its become an ambtions for a lot of managers becuase of the hype and money around the premiership nowadays. If you ask me if it were possilble for a top class foriegn manager to be appointed for nufc, despite todays performance id still say yes because the oppurtunity to manage one fo the big big clubs is becoming rarer and rarer so its a case of the next best thing. Which without a shadow of a doubt is us. Are you now going to argue that we were a more attractive proposition to a top manager as a club that just finished 14th, 7th, 14th who'd had 3 managers in as many years, the last of which lasted half a season, than one which had just finished 4th, 3rd, 5th simply because of the "manner" in which we sacked the previous well respected manager? How is the "manner" in which we got rid of Allardyce any better? You are the one who keeps bringing up the manner of the sacking, I only mention it because you seem to place such an emphasis on it - "I beleive the manner of the sacking set the club back becasue it made the job extremely unnattractive". I don't have a problem with it, and in fact I think (and thought at the time) we should have replaced him in the Summer. I realised that it would have been a very brave and unpopular decision at the time though and replacing him at the end of the season (as was the plan) was a decent compromise which would have allowed us to openly look for a new manager throughout the season (as it was out in the open that Robson was going to be retired from the job). Wow, that is a lot of effort for a pretty poor post again, completely missing the point...again. Do we have something better to offer a new manager now? Well yes we do, we have the new set up of Spurs and the potential finances of Chelsea so again, comparing nufc 2008 with nufc 2004 is massively skewed. If we had the finaces or the set up to offer a new manager the what we can do now, then, then i would have to agree it would of been a more accpetable decision. I still dont understand the footballing justifications of sacking a manager who's just finished 5th. To me the plot reads legendary manager finisihed 4th , 3rd, 5th having staved off relegation 5 years previously gets sacked, he has been humiliated and undermined many times, the club doesnt have a fantastic record with longevity and managers, does a top class manager (which we needed) want to come here? or Jan 2008 New board, clean slate, potentially big finances and a new set up who have sacked the manager not appointed by them in questionable circumstances? Are you still saying im wrong to think that we should of stuck with SBR for at least antoher years to see what may of occured or are you that certain that we would of been releagated? You seem more intent on finding a contradiction from me than proving your point.

Are you a friend of Chris Mort ? You see, never a direct answer. I take it by that response that you are a friend of Mr Shephard. Right? To clarify, you think something is wrong with crediting a board who achieves regular european and champions League football against one who fails to see a looming relegation battle and imposes a "sell to buy" policy on the manager ? And you think anyone who - like you - prefers to see the latter, is Freddie Shepherd ? Amazing. mackems.gif You must indeed by Chris Mort, because surely nobody else would defend such actiions So you have absolutley no link with the old board or Freddy Shepherd then? So you have absolutley no link to the new board or Chris Mort then ? I can categorically confirm that i have absolutley no link with the new board including Chris Mort, your turn.... I don't believe you. Fred Haha, so you think i have a link with London based businessman and billionaire Mike Ashley. Are you seriously 53? You have the logic of a 10 years old. Classic evasion bytheway, dont answer the question directly, turn it around. Dead clever. And you have no sense of humour fredbob, and certainly not much about you if you seriously think that just because I see value in a board showing ambition and ran a club that qualified for europe more than everybody bar 4 other clubs means I have a friendship etc with the chairman of the club. The vast majority of football fans would be quite happy with this, and also realise they had supported clubs that had done very well. In fact they would give their teeth for what we have had the last 15 years. As a matter of interest, why do you call yourself "fredbob" who exactly is it a tribute to ? So you dont have any link whatsoever to Freddy Shepherd or the old board then? Simple question. Fredbob is nothing to do with Freddy shepherd of Sir bobby Robson bytheway, nothing even closed to be linked to NUFC, but nice bit of detective work. Good try! Sorry for not acknowledging your joke bytheway, i didnt realise it was one.

Are you a friend of Chris Mort ? You see, never a direct answer. I take it by that response that you are a friend of Mr Shephard. Right? To clarify, you think something is wrong with crediting a board who achieves regular european and champions League football against one who fails to see a looming relegation battle and imposes a "sell to buy" policy on the manager ? And you think anyone who - like you - prefers to see the latter, is Freddie Shepherd ? Amazing. mackems.gif You must indeed by Chris Mort, because surely nobody else would defend such actiions So you have absolutley no link with the old board or Freddy Shepherd then? So you have absolutley no link to the new board or Chris Mort then ? I can categorically confirm that i have absolutley no link with the new board including Chris Mort, your turn.... I don't believe you. Fred Haha, so you think i have a link with London based businessman and billionaire Mike Ashley. Are you seriously 53? You have the logic of a 10 years old. Classic evasion bytheway, dont answer the question directly, turn it around. Dead clever.

Are you a friend of Chris Mort ? You see, never a direct answer. I take it by that response that you are a friend of Mr Shephard. Right? To clarify, you think something is wrong with crediting a board who achieves regular european and champions League football against one who fails to see a looming relegation battle and imposes a "sell to buy" policy on the manager ? And you think anyone who - like you - prefers to see the latter, is Freddie Shepherd ? Amazing. mackems.gif You must indeed by Chris Mort, because surely nobody else would defend such actiions So you have absolutley no link with the old board or Freddy Shepherd then? So you have absolutley no link to the new board or Chris Mort then ? I can categorically confirm that i have absolutley no link with the new board including Chris Mort, your turn....

The guts of your argument is the board didn't have the gall to sack him at the start of the season or the stomache to let him continue indefinately? The "manner" of Robson's sacking as a deterent to getting a new manager in is a massive red herring. When has the manner of the previous manager's sacking stopped a new manager taking the job? Houllier -> Benitez? Ranieri ->Mourinho? Jol -> Ramos? Fair enough, pick and choose what you want to reply to. Thats not my point at all, the first point and major point is that they shouldnt of sacked him in the first place because he hadnt done anything footballing wise to merit a sacking. By sacking him, the board sent a message saying that in essentially the club requires CL qualification as a minimum. The second part to my argument is indeed the manner and circumstances, ie finishing 5th, being a legend and being treated abdominably whilst in the job, being undermined and being openely humiliated. The examples you give arent particulary good to be honest, so no, its not a red herring, like a said we dont have the history to have such a lavish criteria for these sort of managers. Liverpool - fanstastic history, decent resources wherent achieving the big one they wanted Chelsea - Amazing resources, wanted the best, the best came. Spurs - Had a modernized set up and a club that had finished 5th twice, was looking to exploit there new set up and heavy investment went for the best at a crucial time for them. The only club remotely similar to our situation in the examples you give are Spurs and even then it isnt that similar, they had a new set up which thy were looking to exploit. Nufc didnt have anything to offer that those 3 didnt, we didnt have amazing resources, we arent considered one of the major clubs in the world and we didnt have a new set up to exploit. the main crust of this, which you still fail to grasp fredbob no matter how many times it is explained, is that no other board in the last 50 years has attempted to tap our fanbase and get anywhere near to our potential than the Halls and Shepherd. You even went so far as to say we shouldn't waste money in the transfer window, agreeing with Chris Mort when he said we wouldn't be spending any money on anybody but players for the future, despite us struggling, looking at a relegation fight, and then hypocritically repeating as in your above posts that you then think we are such a big club, that we have an automatic right to a champions League place. You seriously think that the Halls and Shepherd brought decades of success and trophies to an end don't you ? Wait a minute - what has this got to do with me debating whether i thought it was right or wrong to sack SBR? See what you wanna see.

Clever peice of work that, but again, taken completely out of context. The first quote is specifically relevant to why we werent in a good position to appoint a new maager of decent quality because we had nothing to offer which made our club an appealing club having sacked the previous legendary manager in extremely poor circumstances. The second quote is a more generaly view which underlines the reasons why the board didnt do a fanstastic job overall, becasue at key times the board made terrible decisions which set the club back more than it should of. This second quote is only minimally linked to SBR- the topic we are discussing, whereas the first quote is directly linked to the fallout after SBR was sacked. Just like to point out that it was you who questioned me as to whther i wanted to keep SBR and i said yes, because i thoughtand always thought that had we kept SBR we would be in a much better situation than we are now no the argument is turning to the manner in which he was sacked which wasnt my main point. We both agree that the manner of the sacking was wrong, yes? I beleive the manner of the sacking set the club back becasue it made the job extremely unnattractive because of the circumstances and is the key reason as to why we are in the situation we are in now. You dont think that the club was set back by these decsision. I think that SBR should of been given a chance to turn things around because he was a great manager who done amazing things for us, he was kicked out at the first sign of "trouble". You dont becasue he would of stayed for longer than he should of and he ended up getting cancer so that would of been a hinderence for the club. What more is there to this debate?

Are you a friend of Chris Mort ? You see, never a direct answer. I take it by that response that you are a friend of Mr Shephard. Right? To clarify, you think something is wrong with crediting a board who achieves regular european and champions League football against one who fails to see a looming relegation battle and imposes a "sell to buy" policy on the manager ? And you think anyone who - like you - prefers to see the latter, is Freddie Shepherd ? Amazing. mackems.gif You must indeed by Chris Mort, because surely nobody else would defend such actiions So you have absolutley no link with the old board or Freddy Shepherd then?

The guts of your argument is the board didn't have the gall to sack him at the start of the season or the stomache to let him continue indefinately? The "manner" of Robson's sacking as a deterent to getting a new manager in is a massive red herring. When has the manner of the previous manager's sacking stopped a new manager taking the job? Houllier -> Benitez? Ranieri ->Mourinho? Jol -> Ramos? Fair enough, pick and choose what you want to reply to. Thats not my point at all, the first point and major point is that they shouldnt of sacked him in the first place because he hadnt done anything footballing wise to merit a sacking. By sacking him, the board sent a message saying that in essentially the club requires CL qualification as a minimum. The second part to my argument is indeed the manner and circumstances, ie finishing 5th, being a legend and being treated abdominably whilst in the job, being undermined and being openely humiliated. The examples you give arent particulary good to be honest, so no, its not a red herring, like a said we dont have the history to have such a lavish criteria for these sort of managers. Liverpool - fanstastic history, decent resources wherent achieving the big one they wanted Chelsea - Amazing resources, wanted the best, the best came. Spurs - Had a modernized set up and a club that had finished 5th twice, was looking to exploit there new set up and heavy investment went for the best at a crucial time for them. The only club remotely similar to our situation in the examples you give are Spurs and even then it isnt that similar, they had a new set up which thy were looking to exploit. Nufc didnt have anything to offer that those 3 didnt, we didnt have amazing resources, we arent considered one of the major clubs in the world and we didnt have a new set up to exploit.

Colin Kazim Richards ta Fener?

I'm Shepherd! No seriously, do you know his link to Freddy Shephard becasue he's gone quiet again.

You're speculating about what state the club would be in if we hadn't sacked Robson, and complaining when I use what actually happened in real life to point out the consequences of that decision? Okay, I'll just leave you to your dream world where we're top of the premiership and Robson has just led us into the quarter finals of the Champions League on our way to the defense of the cup. Wow, that is stifling arrogance right there. Just cut out an entire post why dont you. There is no speculaion about the state of the club had SBR stayed on whatsoever, however there is reasoning as to why we are inthe situation we are in now due to that decision. Call it a chain reaction. SBR gets sacked when he doesnt deserve it in my opinion, to make matters worse the club handle the situation abdominably, the job becomes a poison chalice. We end up with Souness. Are you honeslty saying that we would of ended up in the exact same situation we are in now had we kept SBR on for however long it may of been? Can you not see how the appointment of a manager of Souness' calibre was a direct result of SBR getting sacked and in the manner he did.

Are you a friend of Chris Mort ? You see, never a direct answer. I take it by that response that you are a friend of Mr Shephard. Right?