fredbob

You mean that after an unsuccessful push you can actually reign in costs and then rebuild leading to a relatively successful team WITHOUT getting relegated or going into administration? Well I never. I'm sure I read that once you got into a position of having a debt of around £70m and a high wages to turnover ratio it was almost unavoidable that debts would continue to increase and wages would "spiral out of control" ending up inevitably in administration unless you fortunately get a generous benefactor to take you over and "turn round the finances" by getting the club relegated and continuing to run the business at a massive loss year after year. If only Ashley could have taken us over in '99 or 2000, maybe he could have brought in someone like Vinny Jones to buy the players for Robson and saved us from the pain of the following years... No surprise that the inevitable suspects have derailed yet another thread into the same tired old Shepherd bashing. Assuming that your are of the belief that Ashley should of spent spent spent his way out of trouble, do you think that that is the same course of action that West Ham and Pompey should take to avoid the trouble they are in? Or is the fact that we fill our stadium regulary make our situations completely different in all ways possible?

Good point. Pompey are equally stupid for not buying loads in January.

No, it wasn't wrong to keep Keegan at all. The point I'm trying to make with the players is that they aren't good enough for the Premiership and being top of the Championship doesn't change that, the same goes for the manager. People need to realise that whilst Hughton has done a good job in stabilising the dressing room he hasnt really notably improved anything that we've done on the pitch, we are getting good results by virtue simply having better players and poorer opposition, teams are creating a fair few chances against us and we arent exactly outplaying too many teams this season, if you look at most of the strikers throughout the division many of them are no way near as clinical as would be required in the division above, hence chances aren't being converted and we are coming out of games looking far more comfortable than we actually are. Had Hughton made us defensively solid (i.e shut out opposition like Kinnear managed to instill for a few games) or made us a dangerous attacking team then I would warrant alot more credit towards him. All this translates to is how this team, playing as it currently is would do in the Premiership against world class strikers, midfields and defences. When assessing any manager you have to look at the direct effect he has on the team onthe pitch, for comparisons sake when O'Neill, Hodgson, Moyes came to their current clubs they had an immediate effect on the way the club played and it was telling from the off. The same happened with Keegan towards the end the 2 seasons ago the same definitely hasnt hamppened with Hughton, he's satbilised the team and got it running in 3rd gear, I dont think he has steel or ability to take us into 4th gear. In compairison to other squads in this league we should really be no way near anyone in second place, we've dropped points against some very poor teams.

You absolute fucking pillock. Have you ever been involved with someone who has mental health problems? Do you have ANY idea of people who have mental health problems go through? Obviously not from your immature replies. I'm sure some of his actions are self inflicted, but he's surrounded by people or attracts people who only seem too happy to help him on his way to oblivion. I've bumped into him a couple of times, on both good and bad days, so I've seen both sides to him. He's a great bloke, but he needs serious long term help if he's going to get through the next 10 years or so. I'm interested in your views on how people with serious mental health problems should be treated, especially when they live their lives being chased around by the media. Just a note to other people - if you read his book, you'll see that the mental health problems came way before the alcoholism You haven't got a clue the life I've lived and what I've dealt with; I know more about it than you can even begin to comprehend you little prick. I hope to god he mows down someone you care about and kills them in his drunken states, let's here your fuking arsewipe opinion on the matter then. But it's Gazza he played football really well and has had it so tough in the spotlight, its not his fault and he deserves 1,000 chances no matter what he does. You fuking mug. The drunken dickhead saw someone killed in a car accident, you'd think he'd not drink and drive after knowing the effects. What a silly cunt you are, imagine someone saying that about someone you'd die for, go on imagine it....I hope that thought haunts you, you a vindictive cunt. In case you're too stupid to realise (which by the sounds of it you are) thats not me condoning drink driving before you try and spout of one of your vitriolic retorts. Tosser. 1 week ban please.

You can't really expect us to compete with Everton though, surely. Anyway, we'll never know how good or bad our offer was really... or whether Everton were interested all along. Your comment is currently correct - but it shows just HOW far NUFC have fallen when Everton are a bigger attraction. Back in 1977, Gordon Lee was poached from us by them and neutrals were saying that it was because Everton were a better club...would anyone have said that during the mid-90s or even up to 4 years ago ?? Bill Shankly once said ' there are 2 teams in Liverpool - Liverpool and Liverpool reserves..' He was only half joking and the fact that we are now inferior to Everton merely illustrates how far the club have fallen....the fact that you also accept that shows, inadvertently, that you have little confidence in things changing soon - and you are correct. By that logic Beckford would be right to stay with Leeds as surely they're a bigger pull than both NUFC and Everton due to their history...

Yes, you have a point - some weeks ago I said Football was heading for financial problems and this is now starting to emerge... The only problem with Ashley is that he didn't PLAN to do things this way - if it works out to Newcastle's advantage it will be because he got lucky - as he has in the past, SOMETIMES. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Salary Cap emerge - the EU bend lots of rules when it suits - just watch what happens with Greece's financial problems....... some, myself included , think he did try to do it this way but gambled on not getting relegated. Indeed, a gamble which failed badly but in hindsight may of helped out the club in terms of getting rid of high earners who werent happy picking up their wages in the fizzy pop league but would of been more than happy to pick them up whilst we struggled at the lower end of the table had we stayed up. Lets just hope he doesnt gamble on us going up.

True but how many british manager are anyway near the likes Jose and Wenger? Alot of the failures you mention didnt have much pedigree, Perrin if i rememebr rightly started out as a P.E teacher (could be totally wrong there like), it was only Santini who had any major achievment about him (with the most gifted set of French players seen in a llong while), Le Guen was abit of a surprise although he was at Lyon where even Perrin suceeded (i think) and the transistion from National to Club is always a tricky one, in my opinion the examples you give dont really lend themselves to your point. The big advantage we have is that a lot of managers who would love to manage in the premiership, its the most popular in the world and that for me acts as enough leverage to get a manager with pedigree at our club. I'd at least like to see us try and looking abroad, I may be wrong but Feruson aside there is only 2 maybe 3 british managers who have managed in the Champions League who are currently in management there are a hell of a lot more who will of tested themselves on a regular basis inthe Champions League and become better managers for it. All Im saying is that theres more chance if getting a god foreign manager than there is getting a good british manager.

Ok, actually Im getting boned here so yeh, maybe there are a few more brits id like but either way theres a lot more foreigners who id give a whirl. Fact.

Yeh I'd take Moyes. good point. Darren Ferguson would be a shit appointment.

On the whole, 'B' list Dutch and German managers seem to be streets ahead in tactics, planning and organisation compared to their British counterparts. Aye, exactly, think Mclaren might of learnt a bit with Twente, seems to of taken them to the next level which is a very good achievement, think he could turn our to become a very good manager. Strange to think that we've never appointed a manager from abroad. Would love this to be the case becasue there are some excellent manager out there who im sure would love to manage at a premier league club with 50k turning up every week, shame it wont happen at all. McLaren's doing very well with Twente, in fact they're top of the league atm. i'd take him over Hughton too. just goes to show how provincial our club have been in terms of never recruiting directly from abroad, ie a manager at an overseas club. the only foreigners we'd have were managing in the UK and actually not very good. I suppose robson is the closest, though he had left PSV for the FA by the time we approached him. Precisely, really irks me how we didnt have the foresight like Liverpool to look outside these shores. There are literally only 3 british manager i'd have at this club, O'Neil, Mclaren and Hughes, the rest are miles behind there foreign counterparts, even putting Hughes with the other 2 is stretching it a bit. Unfortunately this is all a pipe dream cant see us going foriegn, my guess would be Ron Atkinson shoudl Hughton leave.

On the whole, 'B' list Dutch and German managers seem to be streets ahead in tactics, planning and organisation compared to their British counterparts. Strange to think that we've never appointed a manager from abroad. What? Well it depends on what exactly you mean when you state 'from abroad' but we've had a Dutch manager and one that before coming here had previously worked in Spain, Portugal and Holland. We've never appointed amanager from outside these shores, thats what i meant to say.

On the whole, 'B' list Dutch and German managers seem to be streets ahead in tactics, planning and organisation compared to their British counterparts. Strange to think that we've never appointed a manager from abroad. What?

On the whole, 'B' list Dutch and German managers seem to be streets ahead in tactics, planning and organisation compared to their British counterparts. Aye, exactly, think Mclaren might of learnt a bit with Twente, seems to of taken them to the next level which is a very good achievement, think he could turn our to become a very good manager. Strange to think that we've never appointed a manager from abroad. Would love this to be the case becasue there are some excellent manager out there who im sure would love to manage at a premier league club with 50k turning up every week, shame it wont happen at all.

Boy done good but if we're looking to estabilish ourselves and make inroads in the Prem (assuming we get there) then the manager is the key to absoluely everything, at a push Hughton might keep us up but i cant see him taking us to the next level, just doesnt have the experience and quite frankly I cant help but think that the results we're getting are largely due to the gap in quality between our players and the rest of the championship rather than any tactical nous on Hughtons behalf, he hasnt really changed much in the way we play football. That gap wont be telling at all should we go up so the way we play football will determine how we do and as Hughton who in my opinion hasnt changed much footballing style wise then i cant see how we'd succeed with him should we go up. Shearer is an absolute no go - no more sentimentality please. Hughes Sven Personally Im firmly in the camp that thinks that most British managers are lagging when it comes to managing a team, theres rarely any art or craft in there style of play, although a few have recently come through who seem to apply this type of football i think id honeslty like to see a foreign manager. Id even consider Mclaren.

Bobby Robson said "N'Zogbia is a fascinating case. I signed him as a teenager and he was one of the most naturally gifted players of that age I'd ever seen. He seemed to have some kind of dispute with Glenn Roeder and we rarely saw him, which I couldn't understand. Sam Allardyce did play him but he seemed to have to fit in wherever there was an injury." Zog is the one player who would have gone on to the world stage had he been managed correctly at the right times. Not Viana, not Bramble, and not Jenas. Zog was SBR's real gem find. There you go Mick, there's another one. In terms of pure raw talent for a teenager, who else have you seen on our books with that sort of skill and comfort on the ball in the last decade (and more?) No one, but that doesn't make him brilliant by default. He briefly showed some promise, but that quickly evaporated. Talk of being a 'world stage' player is laughable. I think he could of been a player of European pedigree - if that makes sense, obviously not at the Kaka, Ronaldo or Messi stage but more the Rosicky, Nasri, Nani levels. Thought he was supremely gifted but also awfully mismanaged, had a shitty attitude which wasnt handled well throughout his time here, it really hindered his development as a player. Its amazing how many people fail to acknowledge the poisonous atmosphere we have at the club which hinders the players achievments, of course some players do ok it this environment (Jonas, Bassong, Beye etc) but Im not surpirsed at all by the number of players who have done well since they've left, were they bad players or was it us? Which is easier to accept...?

I rate Guthrie very highly, Im just a fan of his simple style, nothing extravagent always looking to hold onto posession and not 'float' it away, basically the anti-butt, but unfortunately i think this is ironically his biggest weakness in the sense that he doesnt actually have any "specialities", he's not got the craft or guile that maybe Emre had (although we rarely got chance to see it) and he doesnt hav ethe defensive solidarity that someone like speed had!

not strictly true though was it. he wasn't hounded out by the fans and a lot of fans were, in my opinion, correct to voice concern about the drop in standards on the pitch from the season before. Correct. Should of gone the season before, right? Once it was made public it was going to be his last season he was on borrowed time. That was the mistake. The players knew he wouldn't be there in 12 months time and I believe he lost some of his players. Not his fault but I do wish he'd have gone in the summer rather than go through what he eventually did. But we had just qualified for the Champions League 3 years after being saved from relegation, having just finished 3rd. If you can condone sacking him under those circumstances then in my opinion we deserve everything we're getting now. Yes we werent playing well, but we were still playing better than 17 other teams in the Premierhip, we'd also be one of the favourites for the UEFA cup having failed against Belgrade. I just dont understand it at all. Hence the reason why I hate a good proportion of our fans. Its the fans that have put us where we are now becasue they werent happy with what they had, they set in a chain of events which lead us down the path we are now. You reap what you so. the wolves game was more about what happened in marseille, as we genuniely had a chance of winning the uefa cup, and after so many false hopes in the past, it happened again when a newcastle team bottled it, especially some of the players i.e. viana I actually thought it was down to not qualifiying for the Champions League - something we were obviously entitled to... As I've said on here several times what Billy Furious said about Robson was spot on. I can't remember the exact words but basically how he wasn't the same man who bought Robert and Bellamy and was having to rely more on the likes of Pro-Zone as he couldn't see things on the pitch that he used to. It was spot on. Fair enough - theres a lot to suggest he was still doing a very good job however there is no question in my mind that a) his 'removal' could of been handled better i.e him being moved upstairs and b) he still deserved just the one more season to try and rectify things or at least give him a chance to prove he was losing it. For me the fans are responsible for why neither happened becasue the ungrateful fans were sharpening there blades the minute things looked to tunr slighlty sour. Like i said, CL qualification became an expectations for the fans even though they had no right to expect it it hastened the whole episode. I actually blame the fans more than i blame Shepherd for this.

not strictly true though was it. he wasn't hounded out by the fans and a lot of fans were, in my opinion, correct to voice concern about the drop in standards on the pitch from the season before. Correct. Should of gone the season before, right? Once it was made public it was going to be his last season he was on borrowed time. That was the mistake. The players knew he wouldn't be there in 12 months time and I believe he lost some of his players. Not his fault but I do wish he'd have gone in the summer rather than go through what he eventually did. But we had just qualified for the Champions League 3 years after being saved from relegation, having just finished 3rd. If you can condone sacking him under those circumstances then in my opinion we deserve everything we're getting now. Yes we werent playing well, but we were still playing better than 17 other teams in the Premierhip, we'd also be one of the favourites for the UEFA cup having failed against Belgrade. I just dont understand it at all. Hence the reason why I hate a good proportion of our fans. Its the fans that have put us where we are now becasue they werent happy with what they had, they set in a chain of events which lead us down the path we are now. You reap what you so. the wolves game was more about what happened in marseille, as we genuniely had a chance of winning the uefa cup, and after so many false hopes in the past, it happened again when a newcastle team bottled it, especially some of the players i.e. viana I actually thought it was down to not qualifiying for the Champions League - something we were obviously entitled to...

not strictly true though was it. he wasn't hounded out by the fans and a lot of fans were, in my opinion, correct to voice concern about the drop in standards on the pitch from the season before. Correct. Should of gone the season before, right? Once it was made public it was going to be his last season he was on borrowed time. That was the mistake. The players knew he wouldn't be there in 12 months time and I believe he lost some of his players. Not his fault but I do wish he'd have gone in the summer rather than go through what he eventually did. But we had just qualified for the Champions League 3 years after being saved from relegation, having just finished 3rd. If you can condone sacking him under those circumstances then in my opinion we deserve everything we're getting now. Yes we werent playing well, but we were still playing better than 17 other teams in the Premierhip, we'd also be one of the favourites for the UEFA cup having failed against Belgrade. I just dont understand it at all. Hence the reason why I hate a good proportion of our fans. Its the fans that have put us where we are now becasue they werent happy with what they had, they set in a chain of events which lead us down the path we are now. You reap what you so. Yeah, the fans set us down this path by forcing Sir Bobby to be sacked and demanding Souness to such an extent that he had to come in. What a load of complete and utter bollocks. Thats what opinions are for. Classic example of not even acknowledging the possilbity that the discontent amongst the fans had made its way to the board room and maybe influenced our chairmans thought process, as Midds has illustrated we had fans who would of been happy to see him go after finishing 3rd. Just solidifies my feelings. We obviously didnt appoint Souness which was when our shitnees clicked into 3rd gear but we definitely set those chain of events into action. Careful what you wish for etc etc. EDIT: My bad I think Midds mean after we fininished 4th. Point still stands though.

not strictly true though was it. he wasn't hounded out by the fans and a lot of fans were, in my opinion, correct to voice concern about the drop in standards on the pitch from the season before. Correct. Should of gone the season before, right? Once it was made public it was going to be his last season he was on borrowed time. That was the mistake. The players knew he wouldn't be there in 12 months time and I believe he lost some of his players. Not his fault but I do wish he'd have gone in the summer rather than go through what he eventually did. But we had just qualified for the Champions League 3 years after being saved from relegation, having just finished 3rd. If you can condone sacking him under those circumstances then in my opinion we deserve everything we're getting now. Yes we werent playing well, but we were still playing better than 17 other teams in the Premierhip, we'd also be one of the favourites for the UEFA cup having failed against Belgrade. I just dont understand it at all. Hence the reason why I hate a good proportion of our fans. Its the fans that have put us where we are now becasue they werent happy with what they had, they set in a chain of events which lead us down the path we are now. You reap what you so.

not strictly true though was it. he wasn't hounded out by the fans and a lot of fans were, in my opinion, correct to voice concern about the drop in standards on the pitch from the season before. Correct. Should of gone the season before, right?

not strictly true though was it. he wasn't hounded out by the fans and a lot of fans were, in my opinion, correct to voice concern about the drop in standards on the pitch from the season before. I just cant understand this view, we finished 5th and played awfully. Put that into perspective now and you can perfectly understand why i hate those fans, a few years earlier we were being saved from relegation by this man. I dont mind people voicing there unhappiness at the level of performance througout the season but to call for his head and eventually get that wish was scandalous in my opinion, something which set us into our spiral. Just think about the recpetion he got on the last game of the season and compare it with the recpetion roeder got for finshing 7th, theres something definintievly wrong about the logical inconcsistency of the fans. Its what i'd vote for if it were up. No question.

No option for the fans? Never the fans fault, they pay there money and therefore are entitled to say or do whatever they want....include essentially hounding out SBR from the club. For finishing 5th. I went there.

I agree, ive actually been very impressed with hows he's played. Bare in mind he's still only 18 he has a lot of things going for him. Its very very difficult for physical type strikers to make impressions on games at the age of 18 he's done it a few times. Theres definitely someting Drogba-esque about him, still a huge amount for him to learn though.

The point being that all the players listed were completely written off. All were said to have major flaws in there games that made them 'poor players', i think the technical word used to describe these player was "shit". Its all been said before and again and again people are being proved wrong, everything written about Jonas in this thread has been written in threads against Martins, Duff, Milner and Owen. For what its worth, whilst i dont think Owen has been spectcular I do think he's showed glimpses of why he's a good player, something that was only seen a couple of times in his career at newcastle.