fredbob

Always liked Viana, one of the most elegant footballers in a black and white shirt with a quality left peg, i always thought he was unlucky, never really got a run in in his favourite position always a back up on the left for Robert if i rememebr correctly.

Never impossible but Fergy probably wants 25m anyway. f*** them. Bought for £18.6m whats the most you'd pay for him? Not saying he's worth £19m but he hasnt done anything to make his price go down.

Interesting that Carrick seems to be 'available' on some sort of level. Not as impossible as people are making out.

It has to be a toss up between Roeder and Souness, surely there is np question here, Souness destroyed this club, roeder took over had one full season with stupid injuries and just showed what a bad manager he was, but he didnt further destroy the team like Souness. Souness

Pretty much agree with that, except i would be a bit gutted if he left and watched him dvevelop into the player we think he could be at another club. Especially if it came back to bite us in the arse. Which no doub it would.

Nah, predominantly Left winger though, can play both though obviously.

Solano? I guess the fans had more to do with that I suppose. Tim Krul possibly too Owen

Team player in what sense? On the pitch, or off it? i think it could be coached out of him, like it was for Ronaldo, but alot depends on Keegans choice of formation for next season, to be honest, i get the feeling hat Boussaffa is a direct replacement for him.

Not that im buying into this view or agreeing with it to ints entirtey, but SBR said that he was one of the most gifted players he'd ever had at that age and with the right training and motivation he could got to the top. Now i'm ofthe view that unlike Viana, we have seen glimpses on a fairly regular basis to suggest that SBR maybe right. Like i say, give him the right environment to thrive and think he would. The thing is is that some of the best football we've seen from him is from when he was 19, he hasnt had the right environment to thrvie since then.

I re-iterate - don't talk sh*te. But you keep doing it anyway. Maybe it's because it's such an uttely pillocky comment ? Internet hard man. If you think that he should be happy cos he's getting paid then you are an idiot who is clearly at war with the world and very bitter, if you think he's had anything but a crap time here then i can only assume you have had an amazing past 5 years as a fan....which makes you an idiot as well. If only you had something constructive to say.... his time here has been s*** ? the opportunity to leave le harve and months later be in the prem,the ability to be able to place your family where you want (aprox 280mile from where you work mind),the ability to do his job poorly and still be lauded for it. he's had a marginally worse time as the rest of them (his dad dying)...enough to explain his 24month strop and poor form.........nada. We're back to square one then? Right, so basically you see absolutely no reason why he shouldnt be perfoming and performing well, (forgetting the fact that at times he has actually performed well and consistently well at times, even early this season at LW) and i see reasons why his time here hasnt been great and therefore offers an insight to his poor form and maybe why his attitude is like it is. (im not saying his attitude is right) Like i say, you name me a single player Zogs age in the premiership who's had as difficult an early career as that and still maintained his form and perfect attitude and ill happily back down, but if you cant you have to see some merit in what im saying....surely? This boy has had it THE worst in my opinion. He's stuck around lot longer then most have (considering he's one of 4-5 players from the SBR days). lots of players go through hard times (the boumsong stuff is superfluous though)the ones who cant hack it get discarded,those that can make it. I see no reason to think n'zogbia isn't a jenas II Well then i guess i sympathize with his plight too much. I guess i think losing your father figure after losing your father is a significant thing, maybe you dont, but im just trying to put myself in his situation and i dont think i could of done too much better, i guess all the people who disagree with me could do better than what Zog has done, which is a credit to them. Well done. Just want to re iterate once more that i think his fathers death is one of a number of things that havent gone for him in his career, people are dragging it out like it the crux of my argument when it isnt. I can see where his frustrations lie, you cant, thats fair enough. just his father dying is the only thing others havent gone thorugh. ican see where his frustrations lie....how to react to them....that is the difference....head down and work or strop? How is it though? 5 managers at the age of 21 - you might think this is one thing, but i see it as 5 seperate incident in a young mans developing career. Parent dying in a different country at a young age Subsequent father figure being sold - Inevitable but not easy to get over and it showed in his performances at his times, so you cant just discard the effect. Playing out your skin and become instrumental to the teams success ony to be discarded for a poorer player the next season, a player who gets into the team on reputation and name alone. (there was absolutely nothing he could do in this situation, this is where the attitude began) played completely out of position Completely discarded becasue his attitude doesnt sit well with the manager and also doesn fit in with the formation. I genuinely cant apply those things to every single player in our squad. Can you? Its not like im exaggerating here, this is what happened to him. He's 21 and has been through all that.... 5 managers by the age of 21............means nowt parent dying.....would affect him him....not NUFC fault father figure being sold......21yrs now and 2 years of poor form playing out your skin ? overhype. and that next season he was the worst of 3 players in that position.....do you agree ? played out of position....under allardyce who wasn't ? completely discatded............on account of form and attitude (makes sense really) i'd like the manager to turn him round but i think n;zogbia is,as i've said .another jenas. Mate if you think having 5 managers that early in your career "means nowt" and is gonna have no effect on your developement or thoughts about the club then that is a joke in its self. "Overhype" if he was instrumental to the success how is it over hype, he was what 19 years old?? the following season, yes, he was poor but how much was that down to having Duff play in frontog him and he could do nothing about it. Not even get his head down in trainng becasueRoeder bummed Duff. That season was a joke and everyone said so at the time, whats changed? The fact that that opinion doesnt suit anymore? Who else under Allardyce was so dramatically played out of position? Milner? Smith? Cop out of an excuse. It clear that we dont agree and that under those circumstances you and everyone else would thrive. Well Done. 5 managers will have an affect........good affects from the good and bad from the bad overhype...........simple no matter how old he was if some thi k he was better than he was then it was overhype (have you realised thye use of past tense?) who else //////blah////allardyce.......milner,martins,taylor,barton.)if you want to defend someone psychologically wheres youre defence of joey barton.......much more evidence) What are we agruing here? I get the feeling you think i think he's the next best thing and that im defending him no matter what. Which is rubbish, again, you took exception to me saying he;s had a crap time here, i think everything ive put points to a crap time. Remind me again how many good managers he's played for? Yes he has talent but he's had his progress as a player hindered at key points in a his short career. (hinederences which he could nothing about), he was good early this season when played in the right position. All those players were played in there prefered role, just not the exact right position. I just think you are arguing a different point to me to be honest. You've not really given me anything to suggest that maybe i dont have a point, instead you are just swatting my points and denouncing them as 'irrelevant' without offering anything to back it up. I tell you what, i guess it all boils down to this, if Zog didnt have all those things happen to him, then do you still think we'd be in this situation with him? If yes, you you obviosuly have him down as a bad egg who is absolutely no good for the club and has always had this bad attitude, but if you dont think we'd be in this positon with him, then surely you're admitting that his current attitude is a result of the personal and professional circumstances he's had to endure at the club. Its a simple question, feel free to oblige.

I re-iterate - don't talk sh*te. But you keep doing it anyway. Maybe it's because it's such an uttely pillocky comment ? Internet hard man. If you think that he should be happy cos he's getting paid then you are an idiot who is clearly at war with the world and very bitter, if you think he's had anything but a crap time here then i can only assume you have had an amazing past 5 years as a fan....which makes you an idiot as well. If only you had something constructive to say.... his time here has been s*** ? the opportunity to leave le harve and months later be in the prem,the ability to be able to place your family where you want (aprox 280mile from where you work mind),the ability to do his job poorly and still be lauded for it. he's had a marginally worse time as the rest of them (his dad dying)...enough to explain his 24month strop and poor form.........nada. We're back to square one then? Right, so basically you see absolutely no reason why he shouldnt be perfoming and performing well, (forgetting the fact that at times he has actually performed well and consistently well at times, even early this season at LW) and i see reasons why his time here hasnt been great and therefore offers an insight to his poor form and maybe why his attitude is like it is. (im not saying his attitude is right) Like i say, you name me a single player Zogs age in the premiership who's had as difficult an early career as that and still maintained his form and perfect attitude and ill happily back down, but if you cant you have to see some merit in what im saying....surely? This boy has had it THE worst in my opinion. He's stuck around lot longer then most have (considering he's one of 4-5 players from the SBR days). lots of players go through hard times (the boumsong stuff is superfluous though)the ones who cant hack it get discarded,those that can make it. I see no reason to think n'zogbia isn't a jenas II Well then i guess i sympathize with his plight too much. I guess i think losing your father figure after losing your father is a significant thing, maybe you dont, but im just trying to put myself in his situation and i dont think i could of done too much better, i guess all the people who disagree with me could do better than what Zog has done, which is a credit to them. Well done. Just want to re iterate once more that i think his fathers death is one of a number of things that havent gone for him in his career, people are dragging it out like it the crux of my argument when it isnt. I can see where his frustrations lie, you cant, thats fair enough. just his father dying is the only thing others havent gone thorugh. ican see where his frustrations lie....how to react to them....that is the difference....head down and work or strop? How is it though? 5 managers at the age of 21 - you might think this is one thing, but i see it as 5 seperate incident in a young mans developing career. Parent dying in a different country at a young age Subsequent father figure being sold - Inevitable but not easy to get over and it showed in his performances at his times, so you cant just discard the effect. Playing out your skin and become instrumental to the teams success ony to be discarded for a poorer player the next season, a player who gets into the team on reputation and name alone. (there was absolutely nothing he could do in this situation, this is where the attitude began) played completely out of position Completely discarded becasue his attitude doesnt sit well with the manager and also doesn fit in with the formation. I genuinely cant apply those things to every single player in our squad. Can you? Its not like im exaggerating here, this is what happened to him. He's 21 and has been through all that.... 5 managers by the age of 21............means nowt parent dying.....would affect him him....not NUFC fault father figure being sold......21yrs now and 2 years of poor form playing out your skin ? overhype. and that next season he was the worst of 3 players in that position.....do you agree ? played out of position....under allardyce who wasn't ? completely discatded............on account of form and attitude (makes sense really) i'd like the manager to turn him round but i think n;zogbia is,as i've said .another jenas. Mate if you think having 5 managers that early in your career "means nowt" and is gonna have no effect on your developement or thoughts about the club then that is a joke in its self. "Overhype" if he was instrumental to the success how is it over hype, he was what 19 years old?? the following season, yes, he was poor but how much was that down to having Duff play in frontog him and he could do nothing about it. Not even get his head down in trainng becasueRoeder bummed Duff. That season was a joke and everyone said so at the time, whats changed? The fact that that opinion doesnt suit anymore? Who else under Allardyce was so dramatically played out of position? Milner? Smith? Cop out of an excuse. It clear that we dont agree and that under those circumstances you and everyone else would thrive. Well Done. EDIT: In fact what are you arguing? Why he's had a poor attitude and not been his best the past coupe of seasons or why he's had it crap at nufc?? The bit in bold suggests we were talking about the latter....im definitely not talking about the former. Although its a "bi-product" of what im saying.

I re-iterate - don't talk sh*te. But you keep doing it anyway. Maybe it's because it's such an uttely pillocky comment ? Internet hard man. If you think that he should be happy cos he's getting paid then you are an idiot who is clearly at war with the world and very bitter, if you think he's had anything but a crap time here then i can only assume you have had an amazing past 5 years as a fan....which makes you an idiot as well. If only you had something constructive to say.... his time here has been s*** ? the opportunity to leave le harve and months later be in the prem,the ability to be able to place your family where you want (aprox 280mile from where you work mind),the ability to do his job poorly and still be lauded for it. he's had a marginally worse time as the rest of them (his dad dying)...enough to explain his 24month strop and poor form.........nada. We're back to square one then? Right, so basically you see absolutely no reason why he shouldnt be perfoming and performing well, (forgetting the fact that at times he has actually performed well and consistently well at times, even early this season at LW) and i see reasons why his time here hasnt been great and therefore offers an insight to his poor form and maybe why his attitude is like it is. (im not saying his attitude is right) Like i say, you name me a single player Zogs age in the premiership who's had as difficult an early career as that and still maintained his form and perfect attitude and ill happily back down, but if you cant you have to see some merit in what im saying....surely? This boy has had it THE worst in my opinion. He's stuck around lot longer then most have (considering he's one of 4-5 players from the SBR days). lots of players go through hard times (the boumsong stuff is superfluous though)the ones who cant hack it get discarded,those that can make it. I see no reason to think n'zogbia isn't a jenas II Well then i guess i sympathize with his plight too much. I guess i think losing your father figure after losing your father is a significant thing, maybe you dont, but im just trying to put myself in his situation and i dont think i could of done too much better, i guess all the people who disagree with me could do better than what Zog has done, which is a credit to them. Well done. Just want to re iterate once more that i think his fathers death is one of a number of things that havent gone for him in his career, people are dragging it out like it the crux of my argument when it isnt. I can see where his frustrations lie, you cant, thats fair enough. just his father dying is the only thing others havent gone thorugh. ican see where his frustrations lie....how to react to them....that is the difference....head down and work or strop? How is it though? 5 managers at the age of 21 - you might think this is one thing, but i see it as 5 seperate incident in a young mans developing career. Parent dying in a different country at a young age Subsequent father figure being sold - Inevitable but not easy to get over and it showed in his performances at his times, so you cant just discard the effect. Playing out your skin and become instrumental to the teams success ony to be discarded for a poorer player the next season, a player who gets into the team on reputation and name alone. (there was absolutely nothing he could do in this situation, this is where the attitude began) played completely out of position Completely discarded becasue his attitude doesnt sit well with the manager and also doesn fit in with the formation. I genuinely cant apply those things to every single player in our squad. Can you? Its not like im exaggerating here, this is what happened to him. He's 21 and has been through all that....

I re-iterate - don't talk sh*te. But you keep doing it anyway. Maybe it's because it's such an uttely pillocky comment ? Internet hard man. If you think that he should be happy cos he's getting paid then you are an idiot who is clearly at war with the world and very bitter, if you think he's had anything but a crap time here then i can only assume you have had an amazing past 5 years as a fan....which makes you an idiot as well. If only you had something constructive to say.... his time here has been s*** ? the opportunity to leave le harve and months later be in the prem,the ability to be able to place your family where you want (aprox 280mile from where you work mind),the ability to do his job poorly and still be lauded for it. he's had a marginally worse time as the rest of them (his dad dying)...enough to explain his 24month strop and poor form.........nada. We're back to square one then? Right, so basically you see absolutely no reason why he shouldnt be perfoming and performing well, (forgetting the fact that at times he has actually performed well and consistently well at times, even early this season at LW) and i see reasons why his time here hasnt been great and therefore offers an insight to his poor form and maybe why his attitude is like it is. (im not saying his attitude is right) Like i say, you name me a single player Zogs age in the premiership who's had as difficult an early career as that and still maintained his form and perfect attitude and ill happily back down, but if you cant you have to see some merit in what im saying....surely? This boy has had it THE worst in my opinion. He's stuck around lot longer then most have (considering he's one of 4-5 players from the SBR days). lots of players go through hard times (the boumsong stuff is superfluous though)the ones who cant hack it get discarded,those that can make it. I see no reason to think n'zogbia isn't a jenas II Well then i guess i sympathize with his plight too much. I guess i think losing your father figure after losing your father is a significant thing, maybe you dont, but im just trying to put myself in his situation and i dont think i could of done too much better, i guess all the people who disagree with me could do better than what Zog has done, which is a credit to them. Well done. Just want to re iterate once more that i think his fathers death is one of a number of things that havent gone for him in his career, people are dragging it out like it the crux of my argument when it isnt. I can see where his frustrations lie, you cant, thats fair enough.

I re-iterate - don't talk sh*te. But you keep doing it anyway. Maybe it's because it's such an uttely pillocky comment ? Internet hard man. If you think that he should be happy cos he's getting paid then you are an idiot who is clearly at war with the world and very bitter, if you think he's had anything but a crap time here then i can only assume you have had an amazing past 5 years as a fan....which makes you an idiot as well. If only you had something constructive to say.... his time here has been s*** ? the opportunity to leave le harve and months later be in the prem,the ability to be able to place your family where you want (aprox 280mile from where you work mind),the ability to do his job poorly and still be lauded for it. he's had a marginally worse time as the rest of them (his dad dying)...enough to explain his 24month strop and poor form.........nada. We're back to square one then? Right, so basically you see absolutely no reason why he shouldnt be perfoming and performing well, (forgetting the fact that at times he has actually performed well and consistently well at times, even early this season at LW) and i see reasons why his time here hasnt been great and therefore offers an insight to his poor form and maybe why his attitude is like it is. (im not saying his attitude is right) Like i say, you name me a single player Zogs age in the premiership who's had as difficult an early career as that and still maintained his form and perfect attitude and ill happily back down, but if you cant you have to see some merit in what im saying....surely? This boy has had it THE worst in my opinion. He's stuck around lot longer then most have (considering he's one of 4-5 players from the SBR days).

I re-iterate - don't talk sh*te. But you keep doing it anyway. Maybe it's because it's such an uttely pillocky comment ? Internet hard man. If you think that he should be happy cos he's getting paid then you are an idiot who is clearly at war with the world and very bitter, if you think he's had anything but a crap time here then i can only assume you have had an amazing past 5 years as a fan....which makes you an idiot as well. If only you had something constructive to say....

Still think you need another striker, Eduardo is a big miss for you, he seemed like an intelligent in the box type of player, take him out the side and you dont have as many out and out strikers who will sit in the box and stick them away. You have too many second strikers in my opinion.

Saggy face t*** has a bit of a point. i dont think Owen could get in the England squad playing in that position because rooney would surely take that role if it were to come up? 100% working for us though, and thats what matters.

Exactly, I always find it amusing that people say "X amount of managers have ignored him/treated him wrong" yet it doesn't seem to come into consideration why it seems to be a re-occuring issue. Again, no one can say what is happening, but ive always known that you play whoever is gonna do the best job on the pitch, like Robert, Ginola, Bellamy, Asprilla, Dyer,hell even Shearer caused a stiror two when he wasnt playing. Like i say, people have taken exception to me saying his time here has been shit. I dont know why.

Where has anyone said that his father dying is why he has a bad attitude?

I havent condoned or tried to explain his attitude once though, all ive said is that he's had it crappy here because of the above reasons, for some reason people took exception to that.

Wenger needs that World Class forward to make Arsenal a massive force, they should really pay big for a striker, Torres would of fitted the bill perfectly. Cant think of anyone who would fit the bill though, in fact, with the abilty around the box, Van horse face would be a decent signing although obviously never gonna happen. He's seems like the type of player who would thrive at the gunners, someone who lives inside the 18yard box.

apart from his dad dying he's had the same time as the rest. why is his reaction sooooo different ? you know the way i meant it. i could see the n'zogbia of 2 years ago fitting in very well on the left of a middle 3. There is no way in a million years wyou can say he's had it the exact same as Milner, the only player in my opinion who is comparable to Zog. Especially not in the past couple of years. Dad dying in a different country, subsequent father figure sold, Duff signed and played in front of him irrespective of quality, played out of position. All things what Milner or other players havent had to deal with. I dunno, maybe i am trying to make excuses for him, its just that if these things happend to me i couldnt se myself doing any better than what Zog has done so far. The fact that Keegan has said that he's improving his training suggests (to me anyway) that his attitude isnt as bad as is being made out.

Fair enough, it'd be a bit of a cop out of an explanatin if i said i was happy when Allardyce was on board, maybe it was the same then, maybe the fact he's subsequently played in a position he couldnt play as well in that changed his mind, i dunno, im not sure its a sense of much changing but actually being a case of it all not changing i.e not getting in the team where he plays best and changing manager etc Like i say, its a fair point, i'm not looking to change anyones opinion and get everyone to get behind him, but i think it's some of the stick he's got on here is uncalled for, i'd hate to think he got the same treatment when he was on the pitch. All i was saying is that there is a part of me that sypathises with him. Wasnt expecting it to get to this to be honest. I sympathised with him when we brought in the woeful Duff to take his place just after his breakthrough season. That was mental. I still think he's got masses of potential and I hope Keegan turns him around, but I just don't see it happening. I think he's being ridiculously short-sighted tbh. Absolutely agree with you, im not trying to play the violins here and say "he's lost his father" we should cut him some slack, im just trying to outline the whole picture with regards to his Newcastle career which other peole maybe arent appreciating. Agree as well that it would be massively short sighted, however alot depends on Keegans choice of formation next year. for me, Zog has no role in the 433 formation.

Im not giving him credit for anything, im not saying he's definitely right for acting the way it seems he is or has, im not saying its all newcastle's fault, but i think a unusually high portion of the blame could and should go to newcastle. Theres been some big things happening in his life and i genuinely cant think of a single player in the premiership who's had it as bad as Zog, the closest would be Milner. that tells its own story to me. Whats changed? Now you're asking to to maybe make excuses for him and id have to say that he like Martins and alot of other players at the time (inc Owen) saw a big future at under Allardyce with his new approach, maybe he bought into it and signedbecause of it, i have to be honest, as a fan, i bought into it as well. Cue another manager sacking and his 5th manager at the same club. He'splayed for more managers at club level than Owen has in his entire career, and not out of choice, well nearly! so we should have kept with one manager to keep him happy ? or not buy anyone to compete for his position ? or play him even when his form says he's the 3rd best player in that position ? maybe he'd be happier if we all spoke french to make him more at home ? Errrrrr what now? well what is the "unusually high ammount of blame " for ? for giving him the chance he was only too willing to take or daring to make him compete for his place. pleasedv i'm not the only one that thinks you are carrying your torch too high You think im taking some sort of moral high ground here? My posts have been sympathetical towards his plight, because in my eyes he's had a shitty time here. Like i say, step up if you think im so wrong and point me in the direction of another player his age in the premiership who's had it the same or worse, then maybe ill start to see his plaight in your light. Until then i stand by my post. I think its disastorous that this has all happened when we look to turn the corner, but someones who incredibly cynical would say we've been truning the corner for the past 5 years. Maybe thats how he sees it, he's at an age where he needs to develop as a football and cant afford to stand by whilst the club finally relaises its potential. Its laready 4 years he's wasted. Thats like a fifth of his whole career. Im not saying he's right to act the way he has done, or has been right to want a move in Jan, but i am saying all this stick he's getting is pretty undeserved, he's had some difficult times. He's gone from our best player to an overated cry baby in a space of a couple of years because his talent hasnt been managed well in my opinion. At the end of the day, thats all it is, its an opinion. If you cant handle that then thats your problem. well i don't think he's had a shitty time. i think he's had fantastic opportunities that he's seriously in danger of blowing it and it's the "had it the same or worse" which is confusing...had what ? the pressure for his position ? i honestly don't see what he's had to put up with which is so bad (except his father dying). Im not gonna try and shove this thing down anyones throats but i think all our players have had shitty times in the past 5 years, would you clasify the last 5 years as fan as anything but shitty? Well why should it be different for a player? Becasue he's gettin paid? That to me is such simplistic bollocks and a complete cop out of an explanation. I just see a young lad who's not had his talent handled well and been messed around a bit, who's had at least one big issue effecting his mind state, at a really young age in a different country. I guess im the only person here who couldnt perform my job well and be happy under those circumstances. there you have it exactly.......they've all had it shitty (and being totally honest they've contributed to it a bit aswell) but it would seem only one isn't prepared to knuckle down now at a time when he could be blowing his biggest chance. i could almost understand the loss of form due to external matters but not the attitude. you see someone wrought with anxiety about things he can't control. i see someone who thinks he's made it and can dictate to the club. What so you are saying he has had a shitty time now? Changed ya tune a little. That was my whole point, he's had a crap experinece at a young age with things other players havent had to deal with, like losing your father his position in the squad to lesser players and losing his subsequent father figure. Again it comes down to his reasoning for not knuckling down (although it appears he is now according to some Keegan quotes) he's only 1 of 3-4 players (?) from the SBR era, the rest have left. He's stuck it out and maybe the sacking of Allardyce and the lack of involvment again are the last straw.... Its all im sayin. EDIT: Also i see someone who has had a torrid time at Newcastle and ismaking it clear that he wants out. Im not making excuses for his attitude, i never did but i said i sypathizes with his situation becasue maybe he's had the final straw.