fredbob

Fair enough, it'd be a bit of a cop out of an explanatin if i said i was happy when Allardyce was on board, maybe it was the same then, maybe the fact he's subsequently played in a position he couldnt play as well in that changed his mind, i dunno, im not sure its a sense of much changing but actually being a case of it all not changing i.e not getting in the team where he plays best and changing manager etc Like i say, its a fair point, i'm not looking to change anyones opinion and get everyone to get behind him, but i think it's some of the stick he's got on here is uncalled for, i'd hate to think he got the same treatment when he was on the pitch. All i was saying is that there is a part of me that sypathises with him. Wasnt expecting it to get to this to be honest.

Im not giving him credit for anything, im not saying he's definitely right for acting the way it seems he is or has, im not saying its all newcastle's fault, but i think a unusually high portion of the blame could and should go to newcastle. Theres been some big things happening in his life and i genuinely cant think of a single player in the premiership who's had it as bad as Zog, the closest would be Milner. that tells its own story to me. Whats changed? Now you're asking to to maybe make excuses for him and id have to say that he like Martins and alot of other players at the time (inc Owen) saw a big future at under Allardyce with his new approach, maybe he bought into it and signedbecause of it, i have to be honest, as a fan, i bought into it as well. Cue another manager sacking and his 5th manager at the same club. He'splayed for more managers at club level than Owen has in his entire career, and not out of choice, well nearly! so we should have kept with one manager to keep him happy ? or not buy anyone to compete for his position ? or play him even when his form says he's the 3rd best player in that position ? maybe he'd be happier if we all spoke french to make him more at home ? Errrrrr what now? well what is the "unusually high ammount of blame " for ? for giving him the chance he was only too willing to take or daring to make him compete for his place. pleasedv i'm not the only one that thinks you are carrying your torch too high You think im taking some sort of moral high ground here? My posts have been sympathetical towards his plight, because in my eyes he's had a shitty time here. Like i say, step up if you think im so wrong and point me in the direction of another player his age in the premiership who's had it the same or worse, then maybe ill start to see his plaight in your light. Until then i stand by my post. I think its disastorous that this has all happened when we look to turn the corner, but someones who incredibly cynical would say we've been truning the corner for the past 5 years. Maybe thats how he sees it, he's at an age where he needs to develop as a football and cant afford to stand by whilst the club finally relaises its potential. Its laready 4 years he's wasted. Thats like a fifth of his whole career. Im not saying he's right to act the way he has done, or has been right to want a move in Jan, but i am saying all this stick he's getting is pretty undeserved, he's had some difficult times. He's gone from our best player to an overated cry baby in a space of a couple of years because his talent hasnt been managed well in my opinion. At the end of the day, thats all it is, its an opinion. If you cant handle that then thats your problem. well i don't think he's had a shitty time. i think he's had fantastic opportunities that he's seriously in danger of blowing it and it's the "had it the same or worse" which is confusing...had what ? the pressure for his position ? i honestly don't see what he's had to put up with which is so bad (except his father dying). Im not gonna try and shove this thing down anyones throats but i think all our players have had shitty times in the past 5 years, would you clasify the last 5 years as fan as anything but shitty? Well why should it be different for a player? Becasue he's gettin paid? That to me is such simplistic bollocks and a complete cop out of an explanation. I just see a young lad who's not had his talent handled well and been messed around a bit, who's had at least one big issue effecting his mind state, at a really young age in a different country. I guess im the only person here who couldnt perform my job well and be happy under those circumstances.

Im not giving him credit for anything, im not saying he's definitely right for acting the way it seems he is or has, im not saying its all newcastle's fault, but i think a unusually high portion of the blame could and should go to newcastle. Theres been some big things happening in his life and i genuinely cant think of a single player in the premiership who's had it as bad as Zog, the closest would be Milner. that tells its own story to me. Whats changed? Now you're asking to to maybe make excuses for him and id have to say that he like Martins and alot of other players at the time (inc Owen) saw a big future at under Allardyce with his new approach, maybe he bought into it and signedbecause of it, i have to be honest, as a fan, i bought into it as well. Cue another manager sacking and his 5th manager at the same club. He'splayed for more managers at club level than Owen has in his entire career, and not out of choice, well nearly! so we should have kept with one manager to keep him happy ? or not buy anyone to compete for his position ? or play him even when his form says he's the 3rd best player in that position ? maybe he'd be happier if we all spoke french to make him more at home ? Errrrrr what now? well what is the "unusually high ammount of blame " for ? for giving him the chance he was only too willing to take or daring to make him compete for his place. pleasedv i'm not the only one that thinks you are carrying your torch too high You think im taking some sort of moral high ground here? My posts have been sympathetical towards his plight, because in my eyes he's had a shitty time here. Like i say, step up if you think im so wrong and point me in the direction of another player his age in the premiership who's had it the same or worse, then maybe ill start to see his plaight in your light. Until then i stand by my post. I think its disastorous that this has all happened when we look to turn the corner, but someones who incredibly cynical would say we've been truning the corner for the past 5 years. Maybe thats how he sees it, he's at an age where he needs to develop as a football and cant afford to stand by whilst the club finally relaises its potential. Its laready 4 years he's wasted. Thats like a fifth of his whole career. Im not saying he's right to act the way he has done, or has been right to want a move in Jan, but i am saying all this stick he's getting is pretty undeserved, he's had some difficult times. He's gone from our best player to an overated cry baby in a space of a couple of years because his talent hasnt been managed well in my opinion. At the end of the day, thats all it is, its an opinion. If you cant handle that then thats your problem.

Im not giving him credit for anything, im not saying he's definitely right for acting the way it seems he is or has, im not saying its all newcastle's fault, but i think a unusually high portion of the blame could and should go to newcastle. Theres been some big things happening in his life and i genuinely cant think of a single player in the premiership who's had it as bad as Zog, the closest would be Milner. that tells its own story to me. Whats changed? Now you're asking to to maybe make excuses for him and id have to say that he like Martins and alot of other players at the time (inc Owen) saw a big future at under Allardyce with his new approach, maybe he bought into it and signedbecause of it, i have to be honest, as a fan, i bought into it as well. Cue another manager sacking and his 5th manager at the same club. He'splayed for more managers at club level than Owen has in his entire career, and not out of choice, well nearly! so we should have kept with one manager to keep him happy ? or not buy anyone to compete for his position ? or play him even when his form says he's the 3rd best player in that position ? maybe he'd be happier if we all spoke french to make him more at home ? Errrrrr what now?

Im not giving him credit for anything, im not saying he's definitely right for acting the way it seems he is or has, im not saying its all newcastle's fault, but i think a unusually high portion of the blame could and should go to newcastle. Theres been some big things happening in his life and i genuinely cant think of a single player in the premiership who's had it as bad as Zog, the closest would be Milner. that tells its own story to me. Whats changed? Now you're asking to to maybe make excuses for him and id have to say that he like Martins and alot of other players at the time (inc Owen) saw a big future at under Allardyce with his new approach, maybe he bought into it and signedbecause of it, i have to be honest, as a fan, i bought into it as well. Cue another manager sacking and his 5th manager at the same club. He'splayed for more managers at club level than Owen has in his entire career, and not out of choice, well nearly!

What do you mean?

Played in his position consistently quite recently, not had s*** signed and played in front of him despite him clearly being the better player. Still been played out of position quite a lot, was practically sold but then told to turn round just as he was pulling into Villa's training ground. Yep most players would be happy with that treatment. Fair enough, told to turn around to play a substantial part in the team who owns his registration, also, wasnt he moaning for that move in the first place? Still dont think its comparable to what Zog's been through, it's not like he's been babbling to the press, true he's has a bad attitude at times, but i guess im in the minority who sympathise with his situation. What other position has Milner been told to play incidentely, ive always known him to be able to play on both wings. 5 managers for a 21 year old, He wanted to move to Villa as we didn't seem to want him anymore but he didn't ever kick up any fuss about it. He has probably been played in as many positions as Zog although he hasn't at the back but then I doubt he would sulk if he was asked to fill in at right back. Zog has had attitude problems for a long time so I don't buy into the whole "ahh poor Zog, how dare we ask him to play in more than one position or buy some competition for his place" thing. Thats not the whole picture though is it? Its not just a case of poor Zog being played out of position, its about a culmination of terrible and frsutrating circumstances which havent helped him in the lsightest. For me, i symptathise with him almost 100% because i cant imagine going throught the exact same thing as he has and still be happy. No matter how much im getting paid. The thing is, is that Milners attitude is exemplary, and i have no qualims whatsoever, but Milner hasnt been through what Zog has. Zog hasnt always had this attitude, it started with Roeder and righlty so, imagine havig someone signed in your position and being played there ahead of you depsite you being a class above and being instrumental to the previous seasons upheavel. I cant sayi wouldnt be pissed, he seemed to be happier this season signing that contract when he could of easily left, instead he;s played in the wrong position, nd isnt allowed to flourish under a repressive allardyce regime. P.S Just to reiterate, im not saying he has every excuse for being poor, just saying i sympathise with him because hes had a shitty time at nufc, unlike alot ofplayers his age. In fact, as ive said eariler, he's probably been one of the unluckiest early career wise.

Hadaway and s**** man. He's had it cushy here. Anyhoo... The way I see it, we're not missing him and he's never been an integral player for us anyway, so he can piss off if that's what he wants. He'll not find a bigger club to play for, a better manager to play under and he'll not find a club as generous as ours where wages are concerned. Really? Think theres absolutley nothing in the Gunners rumour. Also he's had it shitty here. No question. Cant think of another 21 year old in the premiership who's had it worse. in what way has he had it shitty ? being played out of position (like many others)?. being acclaimed as the best at the club even when very poor ? Signed as a 17 years old under SBR, has to give up his fledgling international career because of the move, his father dies, and his role model and subsequent father figure gets sold (albeit for being crap) after a nighmare season under Souness. Having been instrumental to the club revival under Roeder, Roeder signs a senior player on the way down who is poorer than him and still gets played in front of him, 4th manager, things starting to look up, but he's played out of position despite his obvious prefernce and strength at LW, now he's with his 5th manager who is playing in a formation of which he has no part. I cant imagine howfrustrating it is to have had all those things happen to you and still not had the oppurtunity on a consistent basis to prove your talent like he's desperate to do. But you're all right anyway, he;s getting paid to have a stop start career. Good luck to him..... forgetting he was awful last year(duff was awful but better wide left than n'zogbia and both were a lot worse than milner in that position),happy to play leftback for his country. good player,overrated by some,massivly overrated by some more. You're right he was poor last year, but i can only think of 2-3 players who came out of last season with any shred of 'integrity'. The point im trying to make, is not that "he's fuking amazing like" but that he's had it pretty poor at Newcaslte, unlike other 21 years old in the prem. Like ive said, i cant think of many other 21 years olds who had it worse. I happen to think he;d be a player who would thrive in a team that is playing cohesively, only a few seasons ago he wa the best player we had, now he's overrated and s*** despite all the circumstances ivementioned. I think thats unfair. Maybe im wrong. he left france as we were his best option his dad died...nothing we could have done about it boumsong left.....good ! 5 managers.....3 poor ones that would have done no good for anyone and he thrown paddys at at least 2. he may have had it less "shitty" if his form hadn't been as bad as his attitude. Precisely, he signed for us under the pretence that we were the best option for us, and we failed him, we havent aided his developement in the slightest, and to top that all off he's had to suffer further setbacks in his personal life and grin and bare it, apprently he has no right to be frsutrated. Its almost like you're saying that mental state and form and mutually exclusive?? Like he's supposed to pull good form out the bag irrespective of how unhappy he is and how badly the team around him is playing. That sounds like a bit of a cop out of an explaination.

Hadaway and s**** man. He's had it cushy here. Anyhoo... The way I see it, we're not missing him and he's never been an integral player for us anyway, so he can piss off if that's what he wants. He'll not find a bigger club to play for, a better manager to play under and he'll not find a club as generous as ours where wages are concerned. Really? Think theres absolutley nothing in the Gunners rumour. Also he's had it shitty here. No question. Cant think of another 21 year old in the premiership who's had it worse. in what way has he had it shitty ? being played out of position (like many others)?. being acclaimed as the best at the club even when very poor ? Signed as a 17 years old under SBR, has to give up his fledgling international career because of the move, his father dies, and his role model and subsequent father figure gets sold (albeit for being crap) after a nighmare season under Souness. Having been instrumental to the club revival under Roeder, Roeder signs a senior player on the way down who is poorer than him and still gets played in front of him, 4th manager, things starting to look up, but he's played out of position despite his obvious prefernce and strength at LW, now he's with his 5th manager who is playing in a formation of which he has no part. I cant imagine howfrustrating it is to have had all those things happen to you and still not had the oppurtunity on a consistent basis to prove your talent like he's desperate to do. But you're all right anyway, he;s getting paid to have a stop start career. Good luck to him..... forgetting he was awful last year(duff was awful but better wide left than n'zogbia and both were a lot worse than milner in that position),happy to play leftback for his country. good player,overrated by some,massivly overrated by some more. You're right he was poor last year, but i can only think of 2-3 players who came out of last season with any shred of 'integrity'. The point im trying to make, is not that "he's fuking amazing like" but that he's had it pretty poor at Newcaslte, unlike other 21 years old in the prem. Like ive said, i cant think of many other 21 years olds who had it worse. I happen to think he;d be a player who would thrive in a team that is playing cohesively, only a few seasons ago he wa the best player we had, now he's overrated and shit despite all the circumstances ivementioned. I think thats unfair. Maybe im wrong.

Played in his position consistently quite recently, not had s*** signed and played in front of him despite him clearly being the better player. Still been played out of position quite a lot, was practically sold but then told to turn round just as he was pulling into Villa's training ground. Yep most players would be happy with that treatment. Fair enough, told to turn around to play a substantial part in the team who owns his registration, also, wasnt he moaning for that move in the first place? Still dont think its comparable to what Zog's been through, it's not like he's been babbling to the press, true he's has a bad attitude at times, but i guess im in the minority who sympathise with his situation. What other position has Milner been told to play incidentely, ive always known him to be able to play on both wings. 5 managers for a 21 year old,

Hadaway and s**** man. He's had it cushy here. Anyhoo... The way I see it, we're not missing him and he's never been an integral player for us anyway, so he can piss off if that's what he wants. He'll not find a bigger club to play for, a better manager to play under and he'll not find a club as generous as ours where wages are concerned. Really? Think theres absolutley nothing in the Gunners rumour. Also he's had it shitty here. No question. Cant think of another 21 year old in the premiership who's had it worse. in what way has he had it shitty ? being played out of position (like many others)?. being acclaimed as the best at the club even when very poor ? Signed as a 17 years old under SBR, has to give up his fledgling international career because of the move, his father dies, and his role model and subsequent father figure gets sold (albeit for being crap) after a nighmare season under Souness. Having been instrumental to the club revival under Roeder, Roeder signs a senior player on the way down who is poorer than him and still gets played in front of him, 4th manager, things starting to look up, but he's played out of position despite his obvious prefernce and strength at LW, now he's with his 5th manager who is playing in a formation of which he has no part. I cant imagine howfrustrating it is to have had all those things happen to you and still not had the oppurtunity on a consistent basis to prove your talent like he's desperate to do. But you're all right anyway, he;s getting paid to have a stop start career. Good luck to him.....

Wish I had as much cash paid to me for acting like a petulant 4 year old. Shitty ? Don't talk wet. You're talking like a ******* agent. Haha, i love this explaination, he's getting paid an extortionate amount and that is the most important thing in life. What utter bollocks.

"Shearers right, I am a prick"!!

Hadaway and s**** man. He's had it cushy here. Anyhoo... The way I see it, we're not missing him and he's never been an integral player for us anyway, so he can piss off if that's what he wants. He'll not find a bigger club to play for, a better manager to play under and he'll not find a club as generous as ours where wages are concerned. Really? Think theres absolutley nothing in the Gunners rumour. Also he's had it shitty here. No question. Cant think of another 21 year old in the premiership who's had it worse.

Maybe stating the obvious here but he has no role whilst we have a 433 formation. Why's Duff on the bench instead of him then when they both play in the same position? Duff is more hard working and has played in a 433 formation before...? Maybe i dunno. Zog is an out and out winger.

Maybe stating the obvious here but he has no role whilst we have a 433 formation.

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye. My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO. WUM? To be fair, i happen to think that Cacapa and Roz may still have a role in the team, Roz especially, i think he was unlucky and suffered from a series of unfortunate circumstances and bad man management. Cacapa for me is still a good defender as well, although too weak, Roz however isnt weak contrare to popular belief and lost alot of confidence which effected his performances. how can you say he's a good defender then say he's too weak [for a central defender] Because he is a good defender, he has good attributes minus the strength, put him in any other league and he'd be fine, its just this league is too physical for him. Strength is an attribute just like pace, if a defender has no pace does that make him a bad defender as well? Man you really dont know much about football do you? Have you ever played football? strength is imperative for a central defender in the premiership ? You say I know nothing about football ? haha. class that like Wow, not only did you miss the entire point of the post, you didnt answer the question/s. Now there is a surprise. Just because he's not the strongest, it doesnt make him a bad defender, do you understand? Just like Shearer wasnt the quickest.... Take it you never did play football then, trust me, you'd understand it a little more if you had, different perspective etc etc You know nowt about me, I think you know nowt about football, you certainly understand very little about the potential of Newcastle United. Garth Crooks played football, and he was a good player, so are you saying he knows what he's talking about Hit a sore point there then. Sorry... Mourhino couldnt even make it as a pro, does that mean he hasnt used his experience and perspective of football to his advantage.....this game could go on for a long time. To say that a defender or a player is crap becasue he lacks a certain attribute to his game sounds a bit blindsighted to me. Basically what im saying is that you're wrong. I'm not wrong. You're not in the real world. A central defender who lacks strength, in this country, is no use to you. And finally we may be getting somewhere, does that make him a bad defender then? Man this is so easy, the concept is actually easier then having to explain it to you. EDIT: actually to make this argument a little easier, do you fancy telling me where i said he's a good EPL defender? Becasue i sure as hell cant find a quote. All ive said is that he's a good defender, and righlty so. Fair enough i say they still have roles in the squad, especially Roz, but that is my opinion, Carvahllo is a prime example of someone who deals well with little strength. what is EPL ? Are you in the states, or abroad, or something English Premier League, no im not from abroad, living in Ol' blighty all my life. Good bit of diversion bytheway. I've not met a single person - who lives in England and calls it the EPL What point are you trying to make? Really scraping the barrel there old man. and only daft young lads think 53 is old. Run along now there's a good boy Good comeback, realy drived the point home there. Well done.

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye. My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO. WUM? To be fair, i happen to think that Cacapa and Roz may still have a role in the team, Roz especially, i think he was unlucky and suffered from a series of unfortunate circumstances and bad man management. Cacapa for me is still a good defender as well, although too weak, Roz however isnt weak contrare to popular belief and lost alot of confidence which effected his performances. how can you say he's a good defender then say he's too weak [for a central defender] Because he is a good defender, he has good attributes minus the strength, put him in any other league and he'd be fine, its just this league is too physical for him. Strength is an attribute just like pace, if a defender has no pace does that make him a bad defender as well? Man you really dont know much about football do you? Have you ever played football? strength is imperative for a central defender in the premiership ? You say I know nothing about football ? haha. class that like Wow, not only did you miss the entire point of the post, you didnt answer the question/s. Now there is a surprise. Just because he's not the strongest, it doesnt make him a bad defender, do you understand? Just like Shearer wasnt the quickest.... Take it you never did play football then, trust me, you'd understand it a little more if you had, different perspective etc etc You know nowt about me, I think you know nowt about football, you certainly understand very little about the potential of Newcastle United. Garth Crooks played football, and he was a good player, so are you saying he knows what he's talking about Hit a sore point there then. Sorry... Mourhino couldnt even make it as a pro, does that mean he hasnt used his experience and perspective of football to his advantage.....this game could go on for a long time. To say that a defender or a player is crap becasue he lacks a certain attribute to his game sounds a bit blindsighted to me. Basically what im saying is that you're wrong. I'm not wrong. You're not in the real world. A central defender who lacks strength, in this country, is no use to you. And finally we may be getting somewhere, does that make him a bad defender then? Man this is so easy, the concept is actually easier then having to explain it to you. EDIT: actually to make this argument a little easier, do you fancy telling me where i said he's a good EPL defender? Becasue i sure as hell cant find a quote. All ive said is that he's a good defender, and righlty so. Fair enough i say they still have roles in the squad, especially Roz, but that is my opinion, Carvahllo is a prime example of someone who deals well with little strength. what is EPL ? Are you in the states, or abroad, or something English Premier League, no im not from abroad, living in Ol' blighty all my life. Good bit of diversion bytheway. I've not met a single person - who lives in England and calls it the EPL What point are you trying to make? Really scraping the barrel there old man.

He is in Italy now & not doing very much. Before he joined us he was part of a s**** PSG team. How many more leagues does he need to play in to prove he is not very good. Was actually talking about Cacapa.

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye. My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO. WUM? To be fair, i happen to think that Cacapa and Roz may still have a role in the team, Roz especially, i think he was unlucky and suffered from a series of unfortunate circumstances and bad man management. Cacapa for me is still a good defender as well, although too weak, Roz however isnt weak contrare to popular belief and lost alot of confidence which effected his performances. how can you say he's a good defender then say he's too weak [for a central defender] Because he is a good defender, he has good attributes minus the strength, put him in any other league and he'd be fine, its just this league is too physical for him. Strength is an attribute just like pace, if a defender has no pace does that make him a bad defender as well? Man you really dont know much about football do you? Have you ever played football? strength is imperative for a central defender in the premiership ? You say I know nothing about football ? haha. class that like Wow, not only did you miss the entire point of the post, you didnt answer the question/s. Now there is a surprise. Just because he's not the strongest, it doesnt make him a bad defender, do you understand? Just like Shearer wasnt the quickest.... Take it you never did play football then, trust me, you'd understand it a little more if you had, different perspective etc etc You know nowt about me, I think you know nowt about football, you certainly understand very little about the potential of Newcastle United. Garth Crooks played football, and he was a good player, so are you saying he knows what he's talking about Hit a sore point there then. Sorry... Mourhino couldnt even make it as a pro, does that mean he hasnt used his experience and perspective of football to his advantage.....this game could go on for a long time. To say that a defender or a player is crap becasue he lacks a certain attribute to his game sounds a bit blindsighted to me. Basically what im saying is that you're wrong. I'm not wrong. You're not in the real world. A central defender who lacks strength, in this country, is no use to you. And finally we may be getting somewhere, does that make him a bad defender then? Man this is so easy, the concept is actually easier then having to explain it to you. EDIT: actually to make this argument a little easier, do you fancy telling me where i said he's a good EPL defender? Becasue i sure as hell cant find a quote. All ive said is that he's a good defender, and righlty so. Fair enough i say they still have roles in the squad, especially Roz, but that is my opinion, Carvahllo is a prime example of someone who deals well with little strength. what is EPL ? Are you in the states, or abroad, or something English Premier League, no im not from abroad, living in Ol' blighty all my life. Good bit of diversion bytheway.

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye. My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO. WUM? To be fair, i happen to think that Cacapa and Roz may still have a role in the team, Roz especially, i think he was unlucky and suffered from a series of unfortunate circumstances and bad man management. Cacapa for me is still a good defender as well, although too weak, Roz however isnt weak contrare to popular belief and lost alot of confidence which effected his performances. how can you say he's a good defender then say he's too weak [for a central defender] Because he is a good defender, he has good attributes minus the strength, put him in any other league and he'd be fine, its just this league is too physical for him. Strength is an attribute just like pace, if a defender has no pace does that make him a bad defender as well? Man you really dont know much about football do you? Have you ever played football? strength is imperative for a central defender in the premiership ? You say I know nothing about football ? haha. class that like Wow, not only did you miss the entire point of the post, you didnt answer the question/s. Now there is a surprise. Just because he's not the strongest, it doesnt make him a bad defender, do you understand? Just like Shearer wasnt the quickest.... Take it you never did play football then, trust me, you'd understand it a little more if you had, different perspective etc etc You know nowt about me, I think you know nowt about football, you certainly understand very little about the potential of Newcastle United. Garth Crooks played football, and he was a good player, so are you saying he knows what he's talking about Hit a sore point there then. Sorry... Mourhino couldnt even make it as a pro, does that mean he hasnt used his experience and perspective of football to his advantage.....this game could go on for a long time. To say that a defender or a player is crap becasue he lacks a certain attribute to his game sounds a bit blindsighted to me. Basically what im saying is that you're wrong. I'm not wrong. You're not in the real world. A central defender who lacks strength, in this country, is no use to you. And finally we may be getting somewhere, does that make him a bad defender then? Man this is so easy, the concept is actually easier then having to explain it to you. EDIT: actually to make this argument a little easier, do you fancy telling me where i said he's a good EPL defender? Becasue i sure as hell cant find a quote. All ive said is that he's a good defender, and righlty so. Fair enough i say they still have roles in the squad, especially Roz, but that is my opinion, Carvahllo is a prime example of someone who deals well with little strength.

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye. My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO. WUM? To be fair, i happen to think that Cacapa and Roz may still have a role in the team, Roz especially, i think he was unlucky and suffered from a series of unfortunate circumstances and bad man management. Cacapa for me is still a good defender as well, although too weak, Roz however isnt weak contrare to popular belief and lost alot of confidence which effected his performances. how can you say he's a good defender then say he's too weak [for a central defender] Because he is a good defender, he has good attributes minus the strength, put him in any other league and he'd be fine, its just this league is too physical for him. Strength is an attribute just like pace, if a defender has no pace does that make him a bad defender as well? Man you really dont know much about football do you? Have you ever played football? strength is imperative for a central defender in the premiership ? You say I know nothing about football ? haha. class that like Well that's the point about Taylor, he isn't very strong either. I see him getting barged aside same as Rozenhal. If neither of them are very dominant, then you have to balance other strengths and weaknesses. Taylor's used to the Premier, and has a good attitude which is probably keeping him in the team. I doubt he's going to be a top defender though fromn what I've seen. Aaron Hughes/Andy O'Brien level at best for me. I hope he proves me wrong (but I doubt it). you must be looking at a different player to me if you think Taylor lacks strength. He lacks experience, he has dived into tackles, ball watched, mistimed some challenges, got caught out of position sometimes. All defenders do this. These things improve if the player wants them to improve. It all comes with experience and the confidence of playing alongside better players in a better team. He's at a crossroads in his career I wouldn't dispute that. Playing in a better side is what he needs now. He's much better than Aaron Hughes and Andy O'Brien, and he's better than Cacapa and Rozenhal. To be fair, he lacks the strength required to become the Terry type defender, well does at the moment. Look at the likes of Faye, Campbell, Terry, Vidic, even Bramble to see how weak he is comparitively speaking. That is a major flaw forhim if he wants to thrive in that position. Also the bit in bold....what is it that Roz and Cacapa have done which is any worse than what you've mentioned yet still make them classifiable as "s***" having seen them brushed aside by the physical challenge, I find that an amazing question and that in your book makes them worse defenders thana defender who : Okey dokey. you've never played football and have very little understanding of it, if you are trying to say that no 21/22 year old defender ever does things like this sometimes. Again missing the point. Sound like you're on the defensive a little there.

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye. My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO. WUM? To be fair, i happen to think that Cacapa and Roz may still have a role in the team, Roz especially, i think he was unlucky and suffered from a series of unfortunate circumstances and bad man management. Cacapa for me is still a good defender as well, although too weak, Roz however isnt weak contrare to popular belief and lost alot of confidence which effected his performances. how can you say he's a good defender then say he's too weak [for a central defender] Because he is a good defender, he has good attributes minus the strength, put him in any other league and he'd be fine, its just this league is too physical for him. Strength is an attribute just like pace, if a defender has no pace does that make him a bad defender as well? Man you really dont know much about football do you? Have you ever played football? strength is imperative for a central defender in the premiership ? You say I know nothing about football ? haha. class that like Well that's the point about Taylor, he isn't very strong either. I see him getting barged aside same as Rozenhal. If neither of them are very dominant, then you have to balance other strengths and weaknesses. Taylor's used to the Premier, and has a good attitude which is probably keeping him in the team. I doubt he's going to be a top defender though fromn what I've seen. Aaron Hughes/Andy O'Brien level at best for me. I hope he proves me wrong (but I doubt it). you must be looking at a different player to me if you think Taylor lacks strength. He lacks experience, he has dived into tackles, ball watched, mistimed some challenges, got caught out of position sometimes. All defenders do this. These things improve if the player wants them to improve. It all comes with experience and the confidence of playing alongside better players in a better team. He's at a crossroads in his career I wouldn't dispute that. Playing in a better side is what he needs now. He's much better than Aaron Hughes and Andy O'Brien, and he's better than Cacapa and Rozenhal. To be fair, he lacks the strength required to become the Terry type defender, well does at the moment. Look at the likes of Faye, Campbell, Terry, Vidic, even Bramble to see how weak he is comparitively speaking. That is a major flaw forhim if he wants to thrive in that position. Also the bit in bold....what is it that Roz and Cacapa have done which is any worse than what you've mentioned yet still make them classifiable as "s***" having seen them brushed aside by the physical challenge, I find that an amazing question and that in your book makes them worse defenders thana defender who : Okey dokey.

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye. My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO. WUM? To be fair, i happen to think that Cacapa and Roz may still have a role in the team, Roz especially, i think he was unlucky and suffered from a series of unfortunate circumstances and bad man management. Cacapa for me is still a good defender as well, although too weak, Roz however isnt weak contrare to popular belief and lost alot of confidence which effected his performances. how can you say he's a good defender then say he's too weak [for a central defender] Because he is a good defender, he has good attributes minus the strength, put him in any other league and he'd be fine, its just this league is too physical for him. Strength is an attribute just like pace, if a defender has no pace does that make him a bad defender as well? Man you really dont know much about football do you? Have you ever played football? strength is imperative for a central defender in the premiership ? You say I know nothing about football ? haha. class that like Wow, not only did you miss the entire point of the post, you didnt answer the question/s. Now there is a surprise. Just because he's not the strongest, it doesnt make him a bad defender, do you understand? Just like Shearer wasnt the quickest.... Take it you never did play football then, trust me, you'd understand it a little more if you had, different perspective etc etc You know nowt about me, I think you know nowt about football, you certainly understand very little about the potential of Newcastle United. Garth Crooks played football, and he was a good player, so are you saying he knows what he's talking about Hit a sore point there then. Sorry... Mourhino couldnt even make it as a pro, does that mean he hasnt used his experience and perspective of football to his advantage.....this game could go on for a long time. To say that a defender or a player is crap becasue he lacks a certain attribute to his game sounds a bit blindsighted to me. Basically what im saying is that you're wrong.

Apart from the fact Smith & Duff dont start. Also we have better players than them two in there positions. I dont think we have any better centre backs than Taylor & Faye. My view is just like Smith and Duff were rated way above their contribution, so is Taylor. I am pretty sure Cacapa would dovetail nicely with Faye, as would Rozenhal IMO. WUM? To be fair, i happen to think that Cacapa and Roz may still have a role in the team, Roz especially, i think he was unlucky and suffered from a series of unfortunate circumstances and bad man management. Cacapa for me is still a good defender as well, although too weak, Roz however isnt weak contrare to popular belief and lost alot of confidence which effected his performances. how can you say he's a good defender then say he's too weak [for a central defender] Because he is a good defender, he has good attributes minus the strength, put him in any other league and he'd be fine, its just this league is too physical for him. Strength is an attribute just like pace, if a defender has no pace does that make him a bad defender as well? Man you really dont know much about football do you? Have you ever played football? strength is imperative for a central defender in the premiership ? You say I know nothing about football ? haha. class that like Well that's the point about Taylor, he isn't very strong either. I see him getting barged aside same as Rozenhal. If neither of them are very dominant, then you have to balance other strengths and weaknesses. Taylor's used to the Premier, and has a good attitude which is probably keeping him in the team. I doubt he's going to be a top defender though fromn what I've seen. Aaron Hughes/Andy O'Brien level at best for me. I hope he proves me wrong (but I doubt it). you must be looking at a different player to me if you think Taylor lacks strength. He lacks experience, he has dived into tackles, ball watched, mistimed some challenges, got caught out of position sometimes. All defenders do this. These things improve if the player wants them to improve. It all comes with experience and the confidence of playing alongside better players in a better team. He's at a crossroads in his career I wouldn't dispute that. Playing in a better side is what he needs now. He's much better than Aaron Hughes and Andy O'Brien, and he's better than Cacapa and Rozenhal. To be fair, he lacks the strength required to become the Terry type defender, well does at the moment. Look at the likes of Faye, Campbell, Terry, Vidic, even Bramble to see how weak he is comparitively speaking. That is a major flaw forhim if he wants to thrive in that position. Also the bit in bold....what is it that Roz and Cacapa have done which is any worse than what you've mentioned yet still make them classifiable as "shit"