manorpark

Happy Days - watching them win a major trophy, and the European Fairs Cup was far stronger then, than the UEFA Cup is now - with only one team going into the European Cup from the league, rather than four. Then, at the Airport, watching them carrying the trophy through and back into the City Centre, to SJP. NEVER thought that would be the last time we would win a trophy for 39 years!!!

I think that some kind of 'annual event' is a great idea, it gets away from the normal "one-off" event that most things are. It perhaps would not work if it was just us playing them each year though. Perhaps it could be something like . . . Year ONE - Them v us (first teams) at Ipswich. Year TWO - Us v Them (first teams) at SJP Year THREE - Us v Them (Home AND Away) - YOUTH Teams. Year FOUR - A 'Four-team Mini TOURNAMENT' (Youth Teams from us and Ipswich, plus local rivals Norwich and Sunderland) at SJP. Year FIVE - Same as above, but at Ipswich. THEREAFTER - Alternating 4-team Youth Tournaments, between the venues. Could evolve into a permanent tradition, and if Sir Bobby's charity ceases (for any reason) it could be played for another similar-type of charity. An excellent original idea anyway Texasmag - I have just tried to 'flesh it out' a bit, to keep it going!

Snidy little comment, that. Not constructive or helpful. Diddums. I wouldn't have said it if you hadn't made the exact same point over and over again. We get it man. Repeating it over and over again isn't particularly constructive or helpful either. Sorry if I've spoilt your assault on the moral highground btw. No problem.

I apologise, I have 'hijacked' the original purpose of this thread. I did it for legitimate heart-felt reasons though. I will leave it now and it can go back to the Arshavin issue - a VERY good player, hope we can get him! Once again, sorry. (oops - repeating myself!!).

I assume you're talking to me, Dave. No, there has been no ten day delay, but it is the first time I have had the actually time to write it down on here, since it happened. I should have started a "Mediocrity for Ever" (Discuss) thread - but instead I responded on this one. Dave - as you can see from ALL my earlier contributions over time on here - I really have always known what a club we were (are) and where we fit in. But, these comments from KK are so much more important than many seem able to (or prepared to) realise. Again - excuse the dramatic words - but he has done untold damage. Fuckin hell, you're gettin on me tits, mate...can people get banned for repeating the same s**** in every second sentence?!? I am not repeating for repeatings sake. I have tried to genuinly respond (and specifically) to everyones elses responses to me. I would welcome hearing from you as to what evidence you have that would contradict what I have said (what I said not 'repeated' in here!!!). Thanks.

Snidy little comment, that. Not constructive or helpful.

I assume you're talking to me, Dave. No, there has been no ten day delay, but it is the first time I have had the actually time to write it down on here, since it happened. I should have started a "Mediocrity for Ever" (Discuss) thread - but instead I responded on this one. Dave - as you can see from ALL my earlier contributions over time on here - I really have always known what a club we were (are) and where we fit in. But, these comments from KK are so much more important than many seem able to (or prepared to) realise. Again - excuse the dramatic words - but he has done untold damage.

Couple of comments by Keegan and it does fluctuate as easily as that, it seems. Yes, as I have (now) said a few times in this thread - in the past I would NEVER have agreed with the "he won't come here" crowd. The number of blinkered inferiority complexes on here, used to really get me down. Cant they see that we are a big club????? NOW - we have been (please excuse the melodramatic language) 'stabbed in the back'. Things have changed somewhat, because a person - WITH INFLUENCE - who is supposed to (because he always has) "think and speak the same way as me" has specifically used his influence to say exactly the opposite. When he speaks (KK) like this - it has an impact. OK - it MAY (may, may, may) not be permanent, but at the moment it will have the same impact as if it was permanent - as if it was (as the 'inferiority complex' types have always said) a permanent FACT. What impact? Comments after a game forgotten within a couple of weeks type impact or get the U.N. on the blower impact? As will be seen, sadly somewhat closer to the latter. I am trying to 'laugh' too. Not quite managed it yet.

Couple of comments by Keegan and it does fluctuate as easily as that, it seems. Yes, as I have (now) said a few times in this thread - in the past I would NEVER have agreed with the "he won't come here" crowd. The number of blinkered inferiority complexes on here, used to really get me down. Cant they see that we are a big club????? NOW - we have been (please excuse the melodramatic language) 'stabbed in the back'. Things have changed somewhat, because a person - WITH INFLUENCE - who is supposed to (because he always has) "think and speak the same way as me" has specifically used his influence to say exactly the opposite. When he speaks (KK) like this - it has an impact. OK - it MAY (may, may, may) not be permanent, but at the moment it will have the same impact as if it was permanent - as if it was (as the 'inferiority complex' types have always said) a permanent FACT. Go and have a lie down in a dark room mate. I do need one. But, when I come out all is likely to still be 'exactly' the same!! This is stealth wummery at its best. Hats off to you Sir!! Thankyou . . . !

Couple of comments by Keegan and it does fluctuate as easily as that, it seems. Yes, as I have (now) said a few times in this thread - in the past I would NEVER have agreed with the "he won't come here" crowd. The number of blinkered inferiority complexes on here, used to really get me down. Cant they see that we are a big club????? NOW - we have been (please excuse the melodramatic language) 'stabbed in the back'. Things have changed somewhat, because a person - WITH INFLUENCE - who is supposed to (because he always has) "think and speak the same way as me" has specifically used his influence to say exactly the opposite. When he speaks (KK) like this - it has an impact. OK - it MAY (may, may, may) not be permanent, but at the moment it will have the same impact as if it was permanent - as if it was (as the 'inferiority complex' types have always said) a permanent FACT. What impact? Comments after a game forgotten within a couple of weeks type impact or get the U.N. on the blower impact? As will be seen, sadly somewhat closer to the latter.

Couple of comments by Keegan and it does fluctuate as easily as that, it seems. Yes, as I have (now) said a few times in this thread - in the past I would NEVER have agreed with the "he won't come here" crowd. The number of blinkered inferiority complexes on here, used to really get me down. Cant they see that we are a big club????? NOW - we have been (please excuse the melodramatic language) 'stabbed in the back'. Things have changed somewhat, because a person - WITH INFLUENCE - who is supposed to (because he always has) "think and speak the same way as me" has specifically used his influence to say exactly the opposite. When he speaks (KK) like this - it has an impact. OK - it MAY (may, may, may) not be permanent, but at the moment it will have the same impact as if it was permanent - as if it was (as the 'inferiority complex' types have always said) a permanent FACT. Go and have a lie down in a dark room mate. I do need one. But, when I come out all is likely to still be 'exactly' the same!!

Takes one to know one I'll take that comment seriously and try to respond. I am a life-long supporter of this football club, I am a realist and I am (at the same time) a visionary about things that are important to me, like NUFC, and I am not particularly stupid. (Neither am I 'mental' - as you mean it). The fact is - KK has made things SO much more difficult, and it is (personally) saddening to realise that someone in his position actually DOES think like this. OK, there are always the 'inferiority complex' supporters around - but not since the SJH takeover has someone in power at the club said what KK has just said. You have to have ambition to succeed. KK seems to now have lost this. Totally. By trying to prove his point? Sorry??

Couple of comments by Keegan and it does fluctuate as easily as that, it seems. Yes, as I have (now) said a few times in this thread - in the past I would NEVER have agreed with the "he won't come here" crowd. The number of blinkered inferiority complexes on here, used to really get me down. Cant they see that we are a big club????? NOW - we have been (please excuse the melodramatic language) 'stabbed in the back'. Things have changed somewhat, because a person - WITH INFLUENCE - who is supposed to (because he always has) "think and speak the same way as me" has specifically used his influence to say exactly the opposite. When he speaks (KK) like this - it has an impact. OK - it MAY (may, may, may) not be permanent, but at the moment it will have the same impact as if it was permanent - as if it was (as the 'inferiority complex' types have always said) a permanent FACT.

Takes one to know one I'll take that comment seriously and try to respond. I am a life-long supporter of this football club, I am a realist and I am (at the same time) a visionary about things that are important to me, like NUFC, and I am not particularly stupid. (Neither am I 'mental' - as you mean it). The fact is - KK has made things SO much more difficult, and it is (personally) saddening to realise that someone in his position actually DOES think like this. OK, there are always the 'inferiority complex' supporters around - but not since the SJH takeover has someone in power at the club said what KK has just said. You have to have ambition to succeed. KK seems to now have lost this. Totally.

I am calm. But I am also very disappointed by this. KK has made a great impact with his "we are 2nd tier only" speech. He has caused a great deal of (long-lasting, if hopefully not permanent) damage to our club. Not really. He was just saying what we all were thinking. We have slipped off the pace. Souness and Sam have set us back even further, sure we were good 10 years ago, but players want to come for the here and now, and with no europe I can see many disappointed toon fans. We need to be realistic, we need to build this year, get our arses back where we belong, then we can look at higher reputation players. Can't disagree with most of that. We had slipped off the pace, and it was becoming tricky to pick it back up again. The most recent years since we were last in the top four and last qualified for the CL Group stages, have caused us a lot of harm. But, we were always 'one of the few' who were always likely to bounce back (because of all the natural advantages we have, that I listed earlier). Now, KK made it "sound like" were were no longer "temporarily out of the current top four places" we were "rightfully out of the top four places and aiming for our 'rightful' position of 5th only . . . " That is the message he clearly sent around the football world, and with the implicit agreement (NON-disagreement) of the London press - the football world will be agreeing with him.

I am calm. But I am also very disappointed by this. KK has made a great impact with his "we are 2nd tier only" speech. He has caused a great deal of (long-lasting, if hopefully not permanent) damage to our club. No he hasn't man. Get a grip ffs. As I said earlier - I wish you were right. Sadly (as we will all come to realise soon) you are not right.

NO - not any more. He has already talked to those players in his misguided speech. They will KNOW (already) what he really thinks . . .

I am calm. But I am also very disappointed by this. KK has made a great impact with his "we are 2nd tier only" speech. He has caused a great deal of (long-lasting, if hopefully not permanent) damage to our club.

I would NEVER have agreed with a statement like that (no matter how poorly we were performing at any given time) as we were always a huge club with huge amounts of money and 52,000 fans in a magnificent stadium and centred in a great Regional Capital City. NOW, I do agree with it. NOW - since Mr Kevin Keegan has so succinctly consigned us the the Premier League's 2nd Division, with his "our best position is only 5th" speech (because that is what it was). NO top player will want to come to a 2nd tier club. Mediocrity is the best we can ever hope for, according to Mr Keegan - and the football world will have heard that. There will be people on here who disagree with me on this. To you I say - "I WISH YOU WERE RIGHT AND THAT I WAS WRONG". Oh come on, do you really think that people needed KK's statement, to realise that we are a "2nd tier club" He said nothing wrong...sad but true. Peoples opinions can vary on this, but (to me) we were never an official 2nd tier club. We were in the top four or five often in recent times since Sir John Hall took over, we were in European competition most seasons (UEFA or CL). We have a large fan-base (in UK and worldwide). We are based in one of Englands greatest and most famous regional capital cities. We earn 'loads' of money (always in and around the top ten financial clubs in the world). We have a fantastic, large, stadium (2nd biggest in UK, only Old Trafford and us over 50,000 - now joined by Arsenal). No - we have never been an 'official' 2nd-tier club. Unfortunately, the other four of the UKs rich clubs have been pulling away from us in the immediate years since SBR was sacked - but we were still not 'officially' or factually, actually a 2nd-tier club. NOW - IT IS OFFICIAL. (Thanks KK!) (and no top player will want to join an official 2nd tier club).

I would NEVER have agreed with a statement like that (no matter how poorly we were performing at any given time) as we were always a huge club with huge amounts of money and 52,000 fans in a magnificent stadium and centred in a great Regional Capital City. NOW, I do agree with it. NOW - since Mr Kevin Keegan has so succinctly consigned us the the Premier League's 2nd Division, with his "our best position is only 5th" speech (because that is what it was). NO top player will want to come to a 2nd tier club. Mediocrity is the best we can ever hope for, according to Mr Keegan - and the football world will have heard that. There will be people on here who disagree with me on this. To you I say - "I WISH YOU WERE RIGHT AND THAT I WAS WRONG". I suppose, the only way to overcome that would be for KK to change his thoughts and say to potential signings that that is the mould in the PL, and we're trying to look to break it. Agreed - but in fact he chose to specifically say exactly the opposite of that - to the entire listening football world!!!

I would NEVER have agreed with a statement like that (no matter how poorly we were performing at any given time) as we were always a huge club with huge amounts of money and 52,000 fans in a magnificent stadium and centred in a great Regional Capital City. NOW, I do agree with it. NOW - since Mr Kevin Keegan has so succinctly consigned us the the Premier League's 2nd Division, with his "our best position is only 5th" speech (because that is what it was). NO top player will want to come to a 2nd tier club. Mediocrity is the best we can ever hope for, according to Mr Keegan - and the football world will have heard that. There will be people on here who disagree with me on this. To you I say - "I WISH YOU WERE RIGHT AND THAT I WAS WRONG".

Completely wrong. Old-style (Freddy Shepherd) "one-off" trophy signings will achieve nothing, other than confirm that we are still second-rank 'triers / failures'. That doesn't make any sense. So buying a world class player at a high fee would confirm us as second rank triers? What would buying second rank players do then? its just to have a go at Shepherd though Not really, I am simply saying (the bleedin' obvious) that Keegans comments (no matter how 'clever' his intentions MAY have been) have only made it specifically more difficult for us to become a successful club (attract top players) and I was refuting a comment made that "a trophy purchase" (singular) would help mitigate the damage. so - again - who are these "trophy" players that have been signed in the past ? And what have you got against the club having, for instance, one or two players the top 4 would like themselves, rather than none ? Hmmm, interesting. Firstly, I did not bring up the subject of 'trophy players' - someone else did. My response was that one-off big purchases are no good at all. A big purchase is only a sign that you are a club that means business, if it is 'the norm' (part of a continuous process) as it was starting to be when Keegan was last with us, and as it is all the time at Manchester United (for example). A 'one-off' big purchase is not the solution that the poster whose comments I was refuting, thinks it is. ok? Let's not get hung up on the past, or previous owners of the club etc, it is the future that matters. Secondly - I have already said it really. To be successful, we should only (routinely) be buying top quality players. If we do not (cannot afford to) then we will not be successful. Keegans comments help to make it more likely that we will indeed NOT become successful I hope he is proud of himself. I think he is a great bloke and a great manager, but in letting the "we are not big enough" Genie out of the bottle - he has done untold damage to our club (as I said in my earlier posts). no, YOU said "Freddie Shepherd style trophy players". So who did you mean exactly ? Please also explain why you think "trophy players" are different to "top quality players", and if you are only prepared to entertain a team with "many" of these players, where do you start buying them ie if you are against only having one ? Why do you think it is not preferable to have one or two to none of these "trophy/top quality players " If you think we have had "Freddy Shepherd style trophy players" in the past, what particular category would you have put Modric into ? What category would you put Shearer, Ferdinand, Ginola, Asprilla, Batty into ? And some players bought after Keegan part 1 too. Or were you unhappy the club bought these players ? Please explain the difference, or why you didn't want them, because for the life of me I can't see a difference, other than having the urge to move the goalposts and slate the old board, which is not just yourself to be fair ie I'm not having a go at you personally ? NE5 man, I'm not having a 'go' at the old board - they bought all the players when Keegan was last here. They were not perfect were they? But they did a lot of good stuff. Trophy players and Top Quality players are the same type of player, but the implication of the use (by the other poster) of the words "trophy player" is that they are one-offs (not part of the norm). Perhaps that is my misunderstanding? But, I think that is what most people understand by the phrase. I am saying it IS preferable to have LOTS of Top Quality players. You must know that is what I am saying. Shearer, Ferdinand, Ginola, Asprilla, and Batty were all part of (as I have already said) the one time when we were starting to do it right - buying top quality ('finished article') players was becoming the norm (that means NOT as one-off acquisitions). Modric, was (I hoped) to be the 'start' of the routine/continuous acquisition of (only) top quality players AGAIN. This may still happen (though not starting with Mr Modric, of course). Now, I have tried to answer your questions. My interest lies not with the past (or any more questions from you about the past) but with the future. Please comment on the future, and whether you think we will ever get over the 'damage' done to our fragile reputation with big foreign (mostly) players that we may wish to attract, by Keegans comments. It was (with our recent few years of poor performances) always going to be difficult in the short-term to attract the best. It is now (I think) going to be even more difficult, because of what Keegan said. What do you think?

Completely wrong. Old-style (Freddy Shepherd) "one-off" trophy signings will achieve nothing, other than confirm that we are still second-rank 'triers / failures'. That doesn't make any sense. So buying a world class player at a high fee would confirm us as second rank triers? What would buying second rank players do then? its just to have a go at Shepherd though Not really, I am simply saying (the bleedin' obvious) that Keegans comments (no matter how 'clever' his intentions MAY have been) have only made it specifically more difficult for us to become a successful club (attract top players) and I was refuting a comment made that "a trophy purchase" (singular) would help mitigate the damage. so - again - who are these "trophy" players that have been signed in the past ? And what have you got against the club having, for instance, one or two players the top 4 would like themselves, rather than none ? Hmmm, interesting. Firstly, I did not bring up the subject of 'trophy players' - someone else did. My response was that one-off big purchases are no good at all. A big purchase is only a sign that you are a club that means business, if it is 'the norm' (part of a continuous process) as it was starting to be when Keegan was last with us, and as it is all the time at Manchester United (for example). A 'one-off' big purchase is not the solution that the poster whose comments I was refuting, thinks it is. ok? Let's not get hung up on the past, or previous owners of the club etc, it is the future that matters. Secondly - I have already said it really. To be successful, we should only (routinely) be buying top quality players. If we do not (cannot afford to) then we will not be successful. Keegans comments help to make it more likely that we will indeed NOT become successful I hope he is proud of himself. I think he is a great bloke and a great manager, but in letting the "we are not big enough" Genie out of the bottle - he has done untold damage to our club (as I said in my earlier posts).

Completely wrong. Old-style (Freddy Shepherd) "one-off" trophy signings will achieve nothing, other than confirm that we are still second-rank 'triers / failures'. That doesn't make any sense. So buying a world class player at a high fee would confirm us as second rank triers? What would buying second rank players do then? its just to have a go at Shepherd though Not really, I am simply saying (the bleedin' obvious) that Keegans comments (no matter how 'clever' his intentions MAY have been) have only made it specifically more difficult for us to become a successful club (attract top players) and I was refuting a comment made that "a trophy purchase" (singular) would help mitigate the damage.

johnnypd - I think you are exactly right - in what his comments were 'intended' to achieve. Unfortunately, he has ALSO achieved a great deal more than he intended to . . . .