manorpark

Could well have agreed with that, shortly ater the Ashley takeover and when Sam had 'started' the player purchases early and quickly with four good squad players (some, perhaps, actually better than 'squad' level). However, since then (for the last three weeks or so) we have STOPPED. We have just . . . . STOPPED! I do not understand why, but after this longish period of 'nothing' - we still need four or five 'top-quality' defenders, and probably (now) also a replacement for Dyer. We are falling and falling behind - though I appreciate the transfer window is open for another five weeks. The signs though (players wanting to come here? / players running to get here?) - are not good. If it stays like this (we have such a small paper-thin squad) instead of "4th" - I would say "somewhere between 8th and 12th" with the names of the clubs finishing above us being "many". Poor. (PS - Just feeling a bit 'down' about the whole thing today . . . . hopefully back to optimism tomorrow!!)

What a load of bollocks? Everyone on here was chuffed to bits when he let those players go. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but none of those players would improve our current starting 11. Sam was right to let those players go - they were not good enough for us, we are better off without them, even if we can only replace them by bringing our own young kids in from the reserves or juniors (which will not happen). Sam is also aware that there is no point buying "identikit" replacements of the same low quality, only with different names!! That is why it is taking him a while to get good/top quality players in. He is not going to waste his time and our time and the clubs money, by replacing Bramble with Bramble-Jones, or whoever.

you really believe that there were 4 top clubs then US, historically? Wow. Financially (and that, I think most will agree, is a major aspect of football these days) we have been part of a well-clear-from-all-the-rest "Big Five" for a very long time, probably ten years or more. So yes. over the last four years or so, Wallace is right, we were "fifth" behind the current top four, with no real competition. Prior to that (since a time not long after the Premiership replaced the 1st Division) we were higher than fifth, both financially and performance-wise, as we were always ahead of Chelsea in the league and often ahead of Liverpool and Arsenal. Good post Wallace - perhaps not a 'fashionable' post in these days where it is more fashionable to downsize our club, in the words of many posters on here! Eh? He's saying what the rest of us are saying - i.e. we've fallen away and there are other clubs that have caught up or are ahead of us. . . . er . . . exactly what we are both saying, why are you repeating it? The 'new money' clubs this season, are spending big in the transfer market, some more easily attracting players than we are now. The quality of the players being bought by them, has not really attracted me too much though, to be honest. Wallaces point that I was confirming (that was being seemingly challenged) was where we were historically (recently, historically) within the Premier League in terms of buying/attracting good players. It has become much more difficult recently (over recent months, particularly).

you really believe that there were 4 top clubs then US, historically? Wow. Financially (and that, I think most will agree, is a major aspect of football these days) we have been part of a well-clear-from-all-the-rest "Big Five" for a very long time, probably ten years or more. So yes. over the last four years or so, Wallace is right, we were "fifth" behind the current top four, with no real competition. Prior to that (since a time not long after the Premiership replaced the 1st Division) we were higher than fifth, both financially and performance-wise, as we were usually ahead of Chelsea in the league and quite often ahead of Liverpool and Arsenal. Good post Wallace - perhaps not a 'fashionable' post in these days where it is more fashionable to automatically downsize our club in words, on here!!

Hope you are wrong!! We need five more defenders and they need to be of a certain (far better than Ramage/Bramble) level, if we are to make any significant first steps toward improvement in the coming season. The situation defensively, including goalkeeper (in my opinion, as I wrote on another thread some time ago) is: GOALKEEPER - 2 (Given/Harper - so NONE needed) CENTRE BACK (A) - 1 (Taylor - so ONE needed) CENTRE BACK (B) - 1 (Rozehnal - so ONE needed) RIGHT BACK - 1 (Geremi - so ONE needed) LEFT BACK - 0 (so TWO needed) So - we still need to acquire a total of FIVE new, top quality, defenders (in my view) if we are to make a bit of real progress. "One, hopefully two defenders before Bolton" is pretty much a waste of time. It will not achieve what we want and the club needs.

Exactly. There could never be any advantage whatsoever, in advertising how much you are prepared to spend, up front. These guys (Mort/Ashley) are good 'poker players' methinks!.

Chris Mort is working his bollocks off for the club, that's good enough for me at this time. The club has been run unprofessionally for years, the sooner we start moving forwards the better but I'd prefer the club to move forwards while knowing where we stand and not on guess work. If the review is holding us up for now then so be it, that will not always be the case, I see today’s developments as another sign of progress and also a sign of confidence that those running the club feel they can start to make decisions without the help of anybody. Very true, as I have just said to Parky, the length of time Ashley (via Mort and his review) is taking to prepare and build up for whatever it is he intends to do, is very professional - in my view. Maybe if we're lucky the review will be so professional it will never end. A bit like the closing down sales in Ashley's shops. I don't think that would be too 'lucky' for us, actually. However, I have read quotes (I think from Mort) saying the Review is nearing conclusion - so I would imagine funds will soon be released to acquire the new players we need over the next couple of weeks.

Very much agree with your last sentence. Some really average players are just 'shifting around'. Hopefully though, by the time the transfer window closes, our position will be MUCH stronger that right now, and we will in the coming season be scrapping with Arsenal/Spurs/Villa, for 4th spot. The season after, I hope that Ashley/Allardyce will have overseen, managed and financed enough improvement to start (start) a challenge on the current three at the very top. If not then, then the season after. All a bit vague, but it depends so much on Ashley's intentions - as yet still not clear!

Same was said of Bramble when we bought him. At the actual time we bought Bramble, not so much was made of the "odd howlers" thing, as he hadn't shown so much of that tendency (as he grew to here!) and he was young and developing. The difference this time is though (and I am clinging to this) is that it is ALLARDYCE making the judgement call (and in charge of the training when/if he comes here). You talking about an ex England manager, who also managed teams like Barca and PSV, making the call on Bramble and doing the training. Yeah, I know, I was (am) a big big fan of Bobby - but what I see in Allardyce (and I hope I am right) is a genuine affinity with 'defenders' and the defensive side of the game. I am not saying he does not like attacking players, he just seems to have more of an affinity than most, with the "art" of defending. That makes him better than Bobby for this, I think.

Things are about to start really moving on this now. er . . . er . . . I think !!!!!

Same was said of Bramble when we bought him. At the actual time we bought Bramble, not so much was made of the "odd howlers" thing, as he hadn't shown so much of that tendency (as he grew to here!) and he was young and developing. The difference this time is though (and I am clinging to this) is that it is ALLARDYCE making the judgement call (and in charge of the training when/if he comes here).

An interesting visual representation!!!

You are correct, I wasn't just alluding to the hometown club. At that point we all thought that we were going to if not win the league, KK was going to again have us up there and challenging for the title and cup and if Shearer didn't think we were he was going to Man U no if's no but's. Ok, I agree with the sentiment, yes we should be trying to sign the upper echelon of players but I also think we as supporters need to understand that the Rooneys, Lampards and Gerrards aren't obtainable to the club at this moment and therefore the signing of the Vidukas, Geremis and Rozehnals are what we should expect, welcome. That being said we should also hope that this is the minimum level of players we have in our whole squad, no Bernards, Damages or old bomb Carrs to make up the numbers. Just 'someone' would be good !!!! (I'm joking!) I do share the frustrations of many of us though, in this current "lull" in activity! Things will start moving very soon though, as the conclusion of the Review points Ashley in the obvious direction!

Babayaro? Carr? they have to go yes, but thats just because they are bad players, Dyer and McDermott are the remaining bad apples in the squad,club. Yeah, I know what you are saying - you feel that those you mention are part of the "corporate smell" of the old regime, that is nearly all gone now. I undertand that.

When you talk about players of "Shearer's calibre", you're talking about a bloke who was arguably in the top 3 strikers in the world at the time we signed him. I think there'll be a lot of wasted effort expended if we're trying to sign players of that calibre because they simply aren't coming to a club that's unlikely to win trophies and has no Europe/Champions League football to offer. It has to be a gradual process, as we have slipped such a lot in recent years. But, it is still only in "recent" years. We will find it so much more difficult to attract top quality than the current top clubs in our league (eg, Liverpool) do - at present, but we need to consistently establish our credibility, under Ashley. Thinking/acting big (without looking ridiculous) in a commonsense/credible/normal way - until we ARE big - is all part of this . . . we must do this! We need to get the balance right - no more of the obvious "one-off we can't afford any more" trophy-type signings. It has to be seen as part of a consistent programme of advancement - but within that we need to be seen as a (new style, for us) long-term thinking club, that will not accept second-best for long. We have to believe that this is Ashley's intention (unless we ever find out differently) - to be big and successful.

No one is suggesting that we aren't an attractive club to play for to a certain type/level of player. In my realistic/negative/call-it-what-you-like post, I just made the point that we have fallen away significantly from where we once were in terms of being able to attract bigger players. No one really thinks we're on the brink of winning things like they did under Keegan - they know there's the possibility, but that in all probability they aren't coming to Newcastle United to win trophies. And that's what the really top players look for in their choice of club. Yeah Newcastle isn't a bad city, we've got a decent forward-thinking manager, and there is the potential that a new owner might splash the cash. But don't Manchester City have that? Don't West Ham (ok, Alan Curbishley, maybe not)? Spurs? Villa? Yes, we are an attractive club to join (more attractive than 50%+ of the other premiership teams), but don't kid yourself that we are that far removed from some of the clubs above when you take into account the lure of London, etc. By the way, there's a good reason that it's easier to sound credible/realistic when being somewhat negative about Newcastle United. I don't think we are too far away from agreeing on this. I would just put the emphasis more positively (in some aspects a 'fair bit' more positively) that you do. For example "Newcastle isn't a bad city" (damming with faint praise" and very understated) . . . and . . . . "more attractive than 50% of other Premier League teams" (if I thought it was just as low a % as that, I would be seriously depressed!!).

Alan Shearer signed for us at the time, because everything about us said that we were about to 'take over', that we were indeed the next- big-thing, in a kind of "post Manchester United" era!! It was that strong. Shearer (simply) expected to win things here, he expected to dominate. Added to that (but not the reason he signed) was this most "amazing" factor for him - This club that he was joining, that were about-to-take-over the league, was actually his beloved home town club, the famous 'sleeping giant' for so many years - Newcastle United FC. That was fantastic, almost unbelievable for him. But that is NOT why he joined us. It is said (assumed) so many times that it WAS the reason he joined us - that it is accepted as 'true' by many. Particularly by the new/younger supporter, who was not old enough to know what was going on in 1996. That does not make it true. So you are agreeing with me? I certainly am, I agree with most of what you say, except: (1) The Shearer comment "sounded like" you were saying he joined us because we were his home-town club, though I think you weren't saying 'exactly' that (?). I still found it a useful opportunity to re-present the facts of the Shearer-signing issue, though! (2) When you say "we need to realise that we shouldn't be trying to attract players of Shearer's calibre", I disagree. That is exactly the sort of player we need to keep on trying to sign. We should also sign a lot of the Rozehnal / Geremi / Viduka level of player (DEFENDERS, ideally) to build up a reasonably sized good-quality squad. As we become 'more and more' attractive to 'more and more' players, our success rate in actually getting them, will rise - but we have to TRY, now, at this stage still.

Babayaro? Carr?

His health does sound bad, doesn't it. I share the strength of feeling of dislike (a stronger word could be used) for him, with many on here. But I have to say that I hope he does not die soon. He does not deserve that. I know you are not actually saying that you hope he dies soon, but to read it written in such a matter-of-fact way does not seem right to me. I hope he lives to see us perform far better as a company, club and team, than we ever did under him, and that he sees us win many trophies over the coming years and decades.

Alan Shearer signed for us at the time, because everything about us said that we were about to 'take over', that we were indeed the next- big-thing, in a kind of "post Manchester United" era!! It was that strong. Shearer (simply) expected to win things here, he expected to dominate. Added to that (but not the reason he signed) was this most "amazing" factor for him - This club that he was joining, that were about-to-take-over the league, was actually his beloved home town club, the famous 'sleeping giant' for so many years - Newcastle United FC. That was fantastic, almost unbelievable for him. But that is NOT why he joined us. It is said (assumed) so many times that it WAS the reason he joined us - that it is accepted as 'true' by many. Particularly by the new/younger supporter, who was not old enough to know what was going on in 1996. That does not make it true.

Chris Mort is working his bollocks off for the club, that's good enough for me at this time. The club has been run unprofessionally for years, the sooner we start moving forwards the better but I'd prefer the club to move forwards while knowing where we stand and not on guess work. If the review is holding us up for now then so be it, that will not always be the case, I see today’s developments as another sign of progress and also a sign of confidence that those running the club feel they can start to make decisions without the help of anybody. Very true, as I have just said to Parky, the length of time Ashley (via Mort and his review) is taking to prepare and build up for whatever it is he intends to do, is very professional - in my view.

Isn't that the sort of thing you'd do BEFORE spending £140m? I would!! But . . . . I am not a Billionaire as a result of my methods! So he'll recklessly throw £140m away (and take on the debt), but wont spend ~£5m on a left back which anyone is could tell him we need until a complete review has taken place? This is the only credible (logical) argument you've come up with? Same as I said to Parky, really. Do you think Sam should buy a slice of bread and dripping this week, when he could hopefully (and he is aware of this) be in a position to buy a ton of fillet steak NEXT week? I think you've misunderstood what medium and long term mean. We're talking from one year to 18 months and then again 4 to 5 years. That is what the review is about making a long term structure. It has no bearing on getting in for £3m def this week. I appreciate what you are saying, but my judgement of Ashley (and his 'park my tanks on their front lawn' methods) is, that he likes to react quickly. So, his 'short term' strategy is being decided also. He will react/act very quickly (I personally feel) but only when he is in possession of the information to enable him to do so - accurately. It will be soon. I agree and we have to also bear in mind that he is learning on the job...However he is a fast and proactive learner. I'm actually fascinated to see what business novelties he'll bring to the football club environment. I can't wait. I know people are getting frustrated as we appear to be in a bit of a 'lull' at the moment. But, I think we are in for some very exciting times. The length of time Ashley is taking to prepare and build up for whatever it is he intends to do, is very professional - in my view.

Isn't that the sort of thing you'd do BEFORE spending £140m? I would!! But . . . . I am not a Billionaire as a result of my methods! So he'll recklessly throw £140m away (and take on the debt), but wont spend ~£5m on a left back which anyone is could tell him we need until a complete review has taken place? This is the only credible (logical) argument you've come up with? Same as I said to Parky, really. Do you think Sam should buy a slice of bread and dripping this week, when he could hopefully (and he is aware of this) be in a position to buy a ton of fillet steak NEXT week? I think you've misunderstood what medium and long term mean. We're talking from one year to 18 months and then again 4 to 5 years. That is what the review is about making a long term structure. It has no bearing on getting in for £3m def this week. I appreciate what you are saying, but my judgement of Ashley (and his 'park my tanks on their front lawn' methods) is, that he likes to react quickly. So, his 'short term' strategy is being decided also. He will react/act very quickly (I personally feel) but only when he is in possession of the information to enable him to do so - accurately. It will be soon.

Personally, I like bread and dripping FRIED!! I was brought up on that! Explains a lot!!

Isn't that the sort of thing you'd do BEFORE spending £140m? I would!! But . . . . I am not a Billionaire as a result of my methods! So he'll recklessly throw £140m away (and take on the debt), but wont spend ~£5m on a left back which anyone is could tell him we need until a complete review has taken place? This is the only credible (logical) argument you've come up with? Same as I said to Parky, really. Do you think Sam should buy a slice of bread and dripping this week, when he could hopefully (and he is aware of this) be in a position to buy a ton of fillet steak NEXT week?